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Thread: Questions on Dash components and layout

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    Questions on Dash components and layout

    Hi Guys,

    I'm starting on my dash. I decided to start with a blank dash and to do a competition style layout using the FFR vintage gauges. Since I'm just getting started, I have several questions:

    1. I think I've located everything that goes in the dash. Am I missing anything?
    -Horn Button
    -Key switch
    -Head light pull switch
    -Heater pull controls
    -Wiper switch
    -Turn signal switch
    -High Beam switch
    -Hazard switch
    -Unknown SPST on/off switch (what is this for? Maybe under dash lighting?)
    -Unknown SPST on/off switch (what is this for? Maybe under manual fan switch?)
    -Trouble/Indicator lights - 2 green (I assume one is for turn signal, what is the other for?)
    -Trouble/Indicator lights - 1 blue (I this is for high beams)
    -Trouble/Indicator lights - 2 orange / red (What are these for?)

    2. Is there anything else that is normally added or a must add? I'm already planning to add:
    -Fresh air pulls
    -Seat heater switches.

    3. Which gauges have small programming buttons that need to be installed somewhere? Are they the Speedo, Tach, Clock, and Fuel level?

    4. I've seen some guys use a pull style knob for the wipers to look more like the original cars. Is that an easy mod (easy to wire)? Does it require multiple pull switches? Does adding the pull style wiper controls eliminate the self parking feature that the current setup has?

    5. Is there anything that controls the brightness levels of the dash gauges? A dash dimmer? Is that controlled by the head light pull switch?

    6. I know the GPS speedo has LEDs for turn signal and something else, maybe brights. Does this replace all the trouble lights? Do I still need to install a couple? DO I have extras? I'm confused on what still needs to go in the dash.

    Thanks in advance!

    Frank
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  2. #2
    BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yama-Bro View Post
    Hi Guys,

    I'm starting on my dash. I decided to start with a blank dash and to do a competition style layout using the FFR vintage gauges. Since I'm just getting started, I have several questions:

    1. I think I've located everything that goes in the dash. Am I missing anything?
    -Horn Button
    -Key switch
    -Head light pull switch If you install courtesy lights, you will wire them to this switch and turn it all the way counter clockwise to turn them on.
    -Heater pull controls
    -Wiper switch FWIW, I mounted mine out of sight under the dash along with the two small buttons for the clock and speedo, also the dimmer knob for the gauges. (this is all personal pref of course)
    -Turn signal switch
    -High Beam switch May want to look at a floor mount switch for this unless you are intentionally looking for the air craft cockpit look with lots of buttons and lights. (that can be a cool look)
    -Hazard switch
    -Unknown SPST on/off switch (what is this for? Maybe under dash lighting?)See Headlight switch entry above
    -Unknown SPST on/off switch (what is this for? Maybe under manual fan switch?) You can use these switches for exactly what you indicated. Or for anything else you may want.
    -Trouble/Indicator lights - 2 green (I assume one is for turn signal, what is the other for?You should have two green, one for Left turn and one for Right Turn. If you don't use the ones in your speedo )
    -Trouble/Indicator lights - 1 blue (I this is for high beams) This is for High Beam indicator unless you use the one in your speedo
    -Trouble/Indicator lights - 2 orange / red (What are these for?)

    2. Is there anything else that is normally added or a must add? I'm already planning to add:
    -Fresh air pulls
    -Seat heater switches.

    3. Which gauges have small programming buttons that need to be installed somewhere? Are they the Speedo, Tach, Clock, and Fuel level?

    You will really only need the one for the Tach and Fuel one time to program them to your set up. Once they are programmed you most likely will never need them there again. Of course for the Clock you will want it hooked up as with the spedo to change between all the options.

    4. I've seen some guys use a pull style knob for the wipers to look more like the original cars. Is that an easy mod (easy to wire)? Does it require multiple pull switches? Does adding the pull style wiper controls eliminate the self parking feature that the current setup has?

    5. Is there anything that controls the brightness levels of the dash gauges? A dash dimmer? Is that controlled by the head light pull switch?
    Part of the Gauge set should be a small "inverter box" along with a small black turn knob. This is to adjust the back lighting of the gauges. (not the needles) If you wire it as indicated in the RF manual, the headlight switch/knob will not adjust the brightness, but when turned all the way clockwise, will turn off all your lighted gauges. (this is if you wire it through your headlight switch.

    6. I know the GPS speedo has LEDs for turn signal and something else, maybe brights. Does this replace all the trouble lights? Do I still need to install a couple? DO I have extras? I'm confused on what still needs to go in the dash.
    if your GPS speedo has the turn and high beam lights built in, you would not NEED to install the round LEDs unless you want to.
    You would follow your wiring diagrams to wire to the speedo.


    Thanks in advance!

    Frank
    Hope this helps.

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 (#8 of 20) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    Build Thread Click Here / Registry Entry Click Here / BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    Yes, That helps a lot. I'll be using the LEDs in the speedo for the turn signals and highbeam indicator.

    I know I'm in the minority, but I like a well organized comp dash that is a little busy looking.

    Does the gauge set come with 4 buttons to control each of the 4 gauges and 1 small knob? I did a quick look in the box and found a couple buttons and the knob, may have to dig more. That is unless there's only two buttons and they are meant to be shared between the gauges.

    I'm little confused on the gauge lighting. The way I'm understanding it, the large headlight switch turns on the courtesy lights when turned all the way counter-clockwise. Then if turned all the way clockwise it turns off the gauge lights. And the small knob that comes with the gauges controls the brightness of the gauge back lighting. Is that correct? Is there a way wire the head light switch so it controls the brightness of the gauge back lighting instead of the small knob?

    Thanks!
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  4. #4
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    I'm trying to make mine look something like this...It's pretty busy, but that's the way I like it.
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  5. #5
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yama-Bro View Post
    ...

    Does the gauge set come with 4 buttons to control each of the 4 gauges and 1 small knob? As I recall, my gauge set came with only one button. I ordered a second button switch from Speedhut. I have one button mounted on an under dash panel under the center of the speedo to reset the trip mileage, and the second button mounted deeper on the under dash panel to set the clock. If I need to mess with another gauge, I drop an under dash panel and move the button's jack to the appropriate gauge. I did a quick look in the box and found a couple buttons and the knob, may have to dig more. That is unless there's only two buttons and they are meant to be shared between the gauges.

    I'm little confused on the gauge lighting. The way I'm understanding it, the large headlight switch turns on the courtesy lights when turned all the way counter-clockwise. Correct. Then if turned all the way clockwise it turns off the gauge lights. Also correct. And the small knob that comes with the gauges controls the brightness of the gauge back lighting. Again correct. Is that correct? Is there a way wire the head light switch so it controls the brightness of the gauge back lighting instead of the small knob? Not to my knowledge. The small knob is connected to an AC inverter. I'm sure you could separate the inverter from the small knob & wire it into the headlight switch, but I'd have to think about it.

    Thanks!
    Cheers,


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

  6. #6
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Check out post #292 of my build log for tips on laying out your gauges (https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fac...r-build-7.html).

    IMG_3561 by jhsitton, on Flickr

    From left to right:
    Turn Signal Toggle
    Oil Pressure Gauge
    Start Button
    Left Turn Indicator [NOTE: If you rely on the indicators on the speedo, they'll be out of your immediate line of sight.]
    Water Temperature Gauge
    Right Turn Indicator [NOTE: If you rely on the indicators on the speedo, they'll be out of your immediate line of sight.]
    Tachometer
    High Beam Indicator [NOTE: If you rely on the indicators on the speedo, they'll be out of your immediate line of sight.]
    Horn
    Voltmeter
    High-Low Beam Toggle
    Headlight Switch
    Fuel Gauge
    Speedometer
    Clock
    Hazard Toggle
    Heater Switch
    HAAT Power Steering Toggle
    Wiper Switch (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aww-500146/overview/)

    Knobs for heater & wiper switch: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/idt-2503000020

    For the vent pull, drill & tap a #10-32 hole in the bottom of the 2" square tube. Then use one of the F5-provided brake line clamps to secure the body of the pull to the underside of the framing tube.

    I mounted the left side heater switch & vent blower switch on the under dash panel just to the right of the push button start. I mounted the right side heater switch & vent blower switch on the under dash panel roughly an inch from the outboard edge. Finally, I mounted the trip reset button on an under dash panel centered on the speedo & about 1" back from the lip of the dash. I mounted the gauge lighting knob to the left of the trip reset button, and the clock reset button about 3" deeper than the trip reset button.

    If you want photos, let me know.


    John
    Last edited by phileas_fogg; 05-10-2019 at 06:18 PM.
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

  7. #7
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    Phileas,

    I'm heading down the same path as you for layout. I've been working on it all day, it is very close to yours.

    Thanks for the link to the rotary wiper switch, is that a easy swap out for the switch that comes with the FFR wiper kit? I was really hoping to find something to replace that switch that isn't complicated or super expensive. This might be the ticket.

    What is HAAT power steering?

    Thanks!
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  8. #8
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Looks like you have most of your answers. From my side: The Speedhut gauge set only comes with one pushbutton cable. You need two permanently as I think already stated. (1) For the speedo, to reset the trip odometer and to cycle through the functions. I mount mine pointed down under the speedo along the bottom of the dash. Clean and handy when you use it. (2) For the clock. I put the button in the glove box. Otherwise, I'd put it along the bottom edge of the dash too. The fuel gauge and tach you'll use it once for calibration, that's it. So IMO no need to keep a cable installed in them. You can buy more cables from Speedhut. Or they're easy to made. Standard 2.5 mm mini plug one end, momentary pushbutton on the other.

    Don't fight the gauge lighting wiring. Do it just like the instructions. The backlighting is AC electroluminscent panels that look great, but require the supplied AC inverter and rheostat to function and dim. I mount that rheostat along the bottom edge of the dash too. The needles are also lit, but don't dim. The headlight switch will do what has been described: Will turn the courtesy lights on and off but won't dim that gauges. I just leave mine fully rotated to the left, against the stop for the courtesy lights. Then just a quick turn for the courtesy lights.

    I get you want something different for the wiper switch. But you also said you want to keep things simple. The supplied switch is special and along with the FF wiper kit provides automatic parking. I've seen several schematics where guys have duplicated the park function with relays and such. Just be aware that's what you're getting into if you want to fully duplicate the provided wiper switch.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response Paul. I really like the way you've put the small buttons under the dash. I'll probably go that route too.

    Thanks for the advise on the gauge lighting. I don't want to over complicate this, so I'll just roll with what FFR did.

    Yeah, I'd like to have the vintage style knob. I don't mind swapping out a switch, but if I have to start adding relays or extra wiring, I don't think it's worth it. It looks like the wiper switch that Phileas linked to above has a park option. I'll wait for him to chime in. It could be an easy swap. If not, can live with the one that came from FFR.
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  10. #10
    BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yama-Bro View Post
    Yes, That helps a lot. I'll be using the LEDs in the speedo for the turn signals and highbeam indicator.

    I know I'm in the minority, but I like a well organized comp dash that is a little busy looking.

    Does the gauge set come with 4 buttons to control each of the 4 gauges and 1 small knob? I did a quick look in the box and found a couple buttons and the knob, may have to dig more. That is unless there's only two buttons and they are meant to be shared between the gauges.

    I'm little confused on the gauge lighting. The way I'm understanding it, the large headlight switch turns on the courtesy lights when turned all the way counter-clockwise. Then if turned all the way clockwise it turns off the gauge lights. And the small knob that comes with the gauges controls the brightness of the gauge back lighting. Is that correct? Is there a way wire the head light switch so it controls the brightness of the gauge back lighting instead of the small knob?

    Thanks!
    I just looked at your build thread and it's coming together nice. I only received one button, but had speed hut send me a second. Like I said, IMO long term, you will only need two.

    You are correct on the gauge lighting. And NO the pull knob will NOT control the lights except for on and off. The lights are AC and the switch is DC and it just doesn't work to dim the lights.

    EDIT: After my answer, I then see that you got a detailed answer from Paul.

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 (#8 of 20) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    Build Thread Click Here / Registry Entry Click Here / BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
    Carb/Heater/Heated Seats/Cruise Control/Drop Trunk & Battery/Custom Cubby

  11. #11
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    The rotary switch has a terminal for the park function, but it's not just plug-n-play. There's some internal switch wiring that doesn't exactly duplicate what the motor wiring is expecting...at least on mine. No problem for me; I just time when I turn the wipers off so that they're low on the windshield.

    HAAT power steering is Hot At All Times. I can turn on my Fast Freddie's power steering pump without starting the car. Turns out that's very useful; I used it yesterday when checking the front end alignment. I've also used it to reposition the car in my garage. Initially, I was just going to mount the switch without connecting it to anything just for the symmetry. I'm glad I used it for the power steering instead.


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

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