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Thread: Couple More Coyote/FFR Harness Wiring Questions ...

  1. #1
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    Couple More Coyote/FFR Harness Wiring Questions ...

    All,

    My wiring escapade continue. I have on quick confirmation question and one wiring option questions(for today anyway …).

    For the confirmation questions; looking to confirm what terminal to connect the single (S) wire and what terminal to connect ground (-) on the pressure sending unit at they are not marked (at lease I could not see any marks.

    oil pressure sending unit.jpg

    I put a ohm meter on each, the terminal with the dead short to chassis ground I connected the ground wire. The terminal with about 250 ohm (to chassis ground) I assume gets the single wire. Does my logic make sense ?

    For the wiring options questions; I am using the Russ Thompson turn sign. Any reason why I cant make the connections to it using the wires that feed the "Hot Rod Column Connecter" on the FFR harness (per the schematic they all seem to go to the same location as the dash harness ?

    Any/all input is appreciated.

    Much thanks in advance.
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, TKO600, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

  2. #2
    On a roll Al_C's Avatar
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    Which gauges are you using? I can speak to the vintage; I have no idea how the autometer gauges are wired. On the vintage gauges, you have a black and a white wire that connect to the sender at one end, and have a plug connector for the gauge at the other end. The black wire is the ground.

    I didn't use the hot rod column bundle.
    Mk IV Roadster - #8650 - delivered 7-17-2015 - first start 7-28-2018 - first go-kart 10-13-2018 - licensed and on the road 9-9-19: body/paint completed 3-17-2020.
    Complete kit / 2015 Coyote / TKO600 / IRS / Wilwood brakes / Mid-Shift mod / Power Steering / Heater and Seat Heaters / RT turn signal / Breeze radiator shroud and mount

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    On the Speedhut oil pressure sending units I've installed, the marking was in the metal on the back near the terminal strip. There was a capital "S" next to the positive signal terminal, and a dash "-" next to the ground signal terminal. Your logic for the measurement sounds reasonable. But I'd still want to see the marks to confirm. Speedhut has great customer service. If there's nothing stamped into the metal back of the sensor, I'd call them.

    All of the Hot Rod column connector wires are "Y" connections to the same wires elsewhere, so can be used interchangeably. Personally, I always lop the Hot Rod branch off. But you could use those wires if you want. Just pay attention to the matching wires in the harness. They're still hot.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
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  4. #4
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    Which gauges are you using? I can speak to the vintage; I have no idea how the autometer gauges are wired. On the vintage gauges, you have a black and a white wire that connect to the sender at one end, and have a plug connector for the gauge at the other end. The black wire is the ground
    Thanks Al_C. Yes, I have the vintage gauges. I am connecting as suggest through the RF harness.

    On the Speedhut oil pressure sending units I've installed, the marking was in the metal on the back near the terminal strip. There was a capital "S" next to the positive signal terminal, and a dash "-" next to the ground signal terminal.
    . Thanks Paul. I can't seem to see ny marking. The housing has some oxidation. I'll have to try to jam my head in these to take a closer look . It's the sending unit that came with the kit, so I assume it's speadhut as well. Good advice on calling them. I will give that a shot.

    Noted the Hot Rod column connect. I's thinking of using it as it is closer in proximity to the column (Russ Thompson turn sign). It may challenge my electrical skills though … Do you have a good wiring diagram for the Russ Thompson turn signal set-up ?


    Thanks again.
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, TKO600, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

  5. #5
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlewis View Post
    Do you have a good wiring diagram for the Russ Thompson turn signal set-up?
    Nothing special about the RT turn signal assembly if only using it for turn signals. It's a simple double throw switch with a center wire where you'd put the RF grey turn signal feed, and then left and right lights on the other two wires. Check which ones with a VOM or continuity tester. It's exactly like the schematic in the RF manual, with the RT switch replacing the SPDT switch shown in the schematic. There's also a momentary switch in the end of the stalk, which you can use for whatever you want. Some use for the horn, and that's easy since it just needs to be hooked to the two horn wires in the RF harness which already has a relay in the panel. But also very common to use it for low/high beam headlight switching. Then it gets more complicated because one or more relays are required depending on what you want. Russ includes several suggested schematics with his turn signal assembly. While not particularly difficult, you may not want to go that way if you're not comfortable with electrical and wiring.
    Last edited by edwardb; 05-21-2019 at 05:59 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
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    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  6. #6
    On a roll Al_C's Avatar
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    The RT turn signal and momentary switch initially seem daunting, but if I can do it, so can you! I used the momentary switch to control my high beams. Russ provides info on what relay you need, along with wiring diagrams from people who have connected that. On the turn signal itself, it's pretty straightforward as Paul indicated above. The only consideration is that you need to wire the hazard switch into the mix as well. If you lay it out, you can make sense of it. You'll probably need to make a few "y" connections to include everything, but it's not that bad. I'll go through my wiring folder, but I'm not sure I had the presence of mind to actually document what I did. The biggest lesson I learned here is that it's easy to confuse which wire is which on the RT bundle. I had mine mixed up so things didn't initially work correctly. Made the swap and everything was good. I probably didn't provide that much concrete info here, but hopefully you'll give it a whirl.
    Mk IV Roadster - #8650 - delivered 7-17-2015 - first start 7-28-2018 - first go-kart 10-13-2018 - licensed and on the road 9-9-19: body/paint completed 3-17-2020.
    Complete kit / 2015 Coyote / TKO600 / IRS / Wilwood brakes / Mid-Shift mod / Power Steering / Heater and Seat Heaters / RT turn signal / Breeze radiator shroud and mount

  7. #7
    Senior Member Jdav's Avatar
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    Here is my thread on my RT wiring: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-Signal-wiring

    Read through the whole thing as i go on quite a journey.
    MK4 #9028 - Coyote - TKO600
    Delivery: 1/30/17 First Start: 7/23/17 Legal: 10/5/17 Graduated: 10/15/18
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  9. #8
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    Paul - thanks for the additional details. I need to figure out my plan for the momentary switch, leaning toward simple (i.e. horn).

    Al_C - thanks for the additional details (and the confidence nudge)

    Jdav - thanks for the thread. Read though it. Going to need to read it again with some stuff in front of me.

    Need to digest some more and start to dig in.

    Thanks again,

    Mark
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, TKO600, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

  10. #9
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    All,

    Tried to get some wiring done. Thought I would go the simple route an use the button at the end of the RT turn signal and realized the Kit does not come with a DTST switch (just SPST and SPDT).

    Have others found this to be the case.


    dashboard switches.jpg

    Any suggestion on where to source a DPST. I would like it to match SPDT that came w/ the kit (for the high/low beam) ?

    Also noticed that the switch that came w/ the wiper install kit is a bit different from the others. Anyone change this out or just deal with the difference ?

    Thanks again !!
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, TKO600, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

  11. #10
    On a roll Al_C's Avatar
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    OK, my ignorance is showing. That said, " dpst"? "spdt"? probably di-pole and single pole?

    Whatever. If you want to use the RT stalk button for high beams you will need the VW relay that Russ refers to in his instructions. It works pretty well. That's what I used the button for. Please ensure you get the one he refers to, not other cheaper alternatives. There are some you will see on-line that sound good, but they won't work. PM me if you want to talk through it. I have to dig out a bunch of stuff to recall how I wired it.
    Mk IV Roadster - #8650 - delivered 7-17-2015 - first start 7-28-2018 - first go-kart 10-13-2018 - licensed and on the road 9-9-19: body/paint completed 3-17-2020.
    Complete kit / 2015 Coyote / TKO600 / IRS / Wilwood brakes / Mid-Shift mod / Power Steering / Heater and Seat Heaters / RT turn signal / Breeze radiator shroud and mount

  12. #11
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    DPST= Double Pole Single Throw. SPDT = Single Pole Double Throw. There's also Single Pole Single Throw (SPST) and Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT). Google any of the acronyms and you'll lots of explanations and diagrams.

    The kit comes with the necessary switches to wire it just like the Ron Francis schematic shows. Turn signal (SPDT), hazards (DPST) and dimmer (SPDT). The turn signal switch in the Russ Thompson turn signal assembly is a SPDT, meaning On-Off-On, with one of the turn signal circuits energized at a time, and replaces the switch in the kit. As mentioned, to use the momentary switch on the RT turn signal for the horns nothing additional is required. Just wire the two horn wires in the dash harness to the wire on the RT switch. Duplicates the kit provided momentary horn switch. The relay for the horn is already in the Ron Francis panel. If wanting to use the momentary switch for a dimmer switch, then the kit provided SPDT switch is not used. But a minimum of one latching relay (the Bosch one people mention) is required. Some use two relays to also provide flash to pass. Russ provides schematics for these options.

    Agreed the switches in the kit unfortunately aren't all the exact style. All toggles, but different styles and finishes. No easy answer on this one. The wiper switch is specific to the optional kit wires, and enables the automatic park function. You can get a similar Lucas branded switch, but it too won't match the other kit provided switches. You can go all Lucas, which I've done on my three Roadster builds. But Lucas doesn't have a matching DPST for the hazards, which I've worked around with their single pole switch and blocking diodes. It all gets a little complicated if this isn't something your familiar or comfortable with.
    Last edited by edwardb; 05-27-2019 at 09:31 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  13. #12
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    As always, thanks for all the feedback and input.

    I follow the switch type and function. I cannot find a DPST switch for the hazards. My ID on this switch has 4 terminals (like the diagram) where I only had 2 (SPST) and 3 (SPDT) terminals.


    I was surprised that the kit did not provide one. I'll have to dig through my pile again.


    Lucas doesn't have a matching DPST for the hazards, which I've worked around with their single pole switch and blocking diodes.
    I would be interested in take a look the schematic for this if available (staring to get my confidence up )
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, TKO600, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlewis View Post
    All,

    Tried to get some wiring done. Thought I would go the simple route an use the button at the end of the RT turn signal and realized the Kit does not come with a DTST switch (just SPST and SPDT).

    Have others found this to be the case.


    dashboard switches.jpg

    Any suggestion on where to source a DPST. I would like it to match SPDT that came w/ the kit (for the high/low beam) ?

    Also noticed that the switch that came w/ the wiper install kit is a bit different from the others. Anyone change this out or just deal with the difference ?

    Thanks again !!
    I also plan to use the stalk button for a head light dimmer. i have seen plans here for making your own latching relay. i purchased a latching relay to use. the issue with the one i purchased is that it includes a micro-controller and is reacting to the contact bounce of the button. i have been researching how to de-bounce the switch with a resistor and capacitor and expect to have the issue solved shortly.
    MK4 #9191, Gen 3 Coyote, T56, 2015+ IRS, ABS, 12.88 Wilwood's, FFR Tubular Front LCA's, FFR Spindles

  15. #14
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlewis View Post
    ...I cannot find a DPST switch for the hazards...
    You almost certainly know this, but for future builders finding this thread in a search...

    F5 doesn't provide a DPST switch, rather, they provide a DPDT switch (the one with 6 spades on the back). Power the center spades with the RF pink Hazard wire, plus a short jumper. Connect your RF dark green Left Front Turn wire to a bottom spade, and the RF light blue Right Front Turn wire to the other bottom spade. Leave the top spades unconnected.

    You can find a picture of what I'm describing at the top of the Dash Harness page you posted (page 20 in the Rev T booklet).


    John

    IMG_3568 by jhsitton, on Flickr
    Last edited by phileas_fogg; 05-29-2019 at 06:55 AM.
    MK IV Roadster #8631
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  16. #15
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    Jumper makes sense.

    I can't seem to find a DT/anything in my kit. I have a few extra SP switches.

    from my list, It looks like FFR# 14954.

    Maybe I'll see if they can send me one (or buy on if need be).
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, TKO600, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

  17. #16
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    found it (the DPDT stitch that is) !!

    In with the wrong stuff box. Man it's is key to stay organize during this build process.

    I got stuff and stash building up everywhere.

    Going to play with switches and wiring this weekend.

    BTW I and using the FFR dash and glovebox as my starting point for the dash. They decided to put a big hole in the dash for the horn button. I plan to put the horn elsewhere. Has anyone re-purposed this hole for another switch/function ? If so what ?

    I'm think about putting my light switch there, but it will need some sort of larger diameter bezel. Just curious.


    I' also thinking of wrapping this dash w/ leather, anyone have any success (failures) with this ?


    Thanks
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, TKO600, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

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