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Thread: Local paint shops experiences please...

  1. #1
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Local paint shops experiences please...

    Okay, so I'm agonizing over what to do about paint. The problem is, where I want to go, the shops that specialize in roadsters in Bloomington, Indiana - Temecula, California - the other one (way down south) and maybe one in Oregon are more than a thousand miles away from where I am in Denver. I know there are good shops here, but I don't know how they will handle this kind of specialized work.

    So who has taken a chance on their local shop (wherever you may be) that has no experience in FFR roadster's but good otherwise? And how did it turn out?

    GTBradley
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Jdav's Avatar
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    I shipped mine 500+ miles to the shop in Bloomington, Indiana
    I realize this isn't an answer to your question, just wondering if you had considered shipping it rather than agonizing about what you might get from a local shop that isnt as familiar.
    MK4 #9028 - Coyote - TKO600
    Delivery: 1/30/17 First Start: 7/23/17 Legal: 10/5/17 Graduated: 10/15/18
    Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...8-Build-Thread

  3. #3
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Definitely, the experienced shops are at the top of the list, but the agony or more accurately the consternation is spread equally across local quality, distance traveled (and expense involved with it) and lead times.
    Last edited by GTBradley; 05-20-2019 at 02:23 PM.
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

  4. #4
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdav View Post
    I shipped mine 500+ miles to the shop in Bloomington, Indiana
    I realize this isn't an answer to your question, just wondering if you had considered shipping it rather than agonizing about what you might get from a local shop that isnt as familiar.
    Love your paint, BTW.
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

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    Quality, time, and money are the three criteria that I would use.

    An experienced FF painter knows what combination of materials work well with our cars, and they also have a reputation to maintain. They also know what expectations their customers have of the finished product. A shop not experienced with FF bodies may have great reputation with metal, but without FF experience, problems may arise that the experienced guys have already worked a long time ago. Especially with the fitting of the bodies to the frame.

    An experienced shop will already know how long your car will take to finish. And since this is all the Jeff's do, it will not be pushed into the back corner while they work on insurance jobs that pay more than what you are paying.

    In my world, I would choose a guy that knows what he is doing, how long it will take, and what it will cost. I would not go with any unknowns in any area.

    You only want to do this once. Any compromises will haunt you forever.


    EDIT: If you can, go to the London Cobra Show next month, the Jeff's will be there, and you can talk to them, see their work, and talk to past customers about their experiences.
    Last edited by Derald Rice; 05-20-2019 at 02:41 PM.
    MK2 #3319.... On the road since 2002 with a lot of upgrades

  6. #6
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    If the "Jeff's" or Ken are out of your range, find a shop that specializes in Corvettes . . . There has to be at least one in you neck of the western states.

    Doc
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

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    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input guys. I started this post after searching the forum for paint experiences and realizing that I was only coming up with the same thing, where people shipped or towed the car to far flung locations. I’m probably going to do he same. I may even buy a Serpent Express trailer to get it there. It just would be nice to know what experiences people have had with a shop that has not done a kit car before.
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

  8. #8
    Richard Oben's Avatar
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    We have a guy that does them in KC. 600 miles but doable. He is on his 8th or 10th car for us. HTH, Richard. Email me if you want [email protected] PMs are not checked often or at all.
    Richard Oben FFR builder www.northracecars.com

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  9. #9
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Well doesn't that take the cake! I lived in KC for 48 years.
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

  10. #10
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    I would keep in mind tha shipping a car isn’t all that expensive. It doesn’t take many hours of hourly shop rate to negate shipping cost. Going with one of the tried and true guys is a known. With someone else you take your chances. They may do just as great of a job but is it going to take them an extra 30 hours labor while they figure it out for the first time? Will that cost more than the shipping cost?
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
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    Mine went to Bloomington, In. The wizard did his thing and couldn't be happier.
    Chuck Krueger
    MK4 Kit - Picked up 4/5/14, Complete Kit, 3-Link, Wilwood upgrade, Coyote, TKO 500, First Start 7/25/15
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  13. #12
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    I would keep in mind tha shipping a car isn’t all that expensive. It doesn’t take many hours of hourly shop rate to negate shipping cost. Going with one of the tried and true guys is a known. With someone else you take your chances. They may do just as great of a job but is it going to take them an extra 30 hours labor while they figure it out for the first time? Will that cost more than the shipping cost?
    That is a very good point. That’s why, even though my dad and I painted cars together back in the day, I would never take the job on myself - too much time! And more power to ya to the guys who do! That’s got be a long row to hoe!
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

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    get a group together and ship 5-6 cars to offset the shipping costs and send them to jeff or ken

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    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    After all your work & money the only thing visible in the skin & paint. Is it really a smart play to go with an inexperienced FFR body finisher & painter?
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
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    You spend thousands of dollars and countless hours building your dream car, but what most people see is the beauty of your paint job. Go with the Jeff’s. They know how to fit and finish these cars. I’ve had daBat do 3 of them and could not be happier.
    MK4 delivered 2/24/2017. Complete kit #9023,IRS, Power Steering, Leather, heater, 17" wheels, sway bar ft & rr, tremec 600 and Gordon Levy Racing SBF 427. First start and go kart 8/19/2017. Graduated 1/15/2018
    MK4 #9230 complete kit delivered 1/27/2018. IRS, PS, leather, Tremic 600, SBF 427. Graduation 10/15/2018
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  18. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by slpro1207 View Post
    You spend thousands of dollars and countless hours building your dream car, but what most people see is the beauty of your paint job. Go with the Jeff’s. They know how to fit and finish these cars. I’ve had daBat do 3 of them and could not be happier.
    Totally agree. I'm not too far from you in New Mexico, and I took my car to daBat (Jeff Miller). You'll obviously need 2 trips - one to drop off and one to pick up. Pick up where you drop the rolling chassis off and pick it up in a few days. I just did it around a vacation in Phoenix. High quality job at a reasonable price. But you have to put up with his sense of humor!!
    Steve

    FFR #8305; IRS, 347; T5 Trans; EFI, 3.27 Rear; 17x9" Front; 17x10.5" Rear
    Paint - Ford Magnetic Metallic Gray (J7) with Black Stripes; Painted by "da Bat"
    Complete Kit Delivered 05/15/2014; Titled and Registered 4/14/2017 as a 1965!!

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  20. #17
    Papa's Avatar
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    Bradley,

    You already know what I'm doing, but if you want a fantastic local painter, I know of one. In fact, I was originally going to use him to do my car until I spoke with the "Jeffs". The local guy wanted to do the car body-on, which isn't necessarily wrong, but it put all the pressure on me to get the body fit perfectly, which I doubted I could do. Also, the guy is a great painter and just as in demand as either Jeff. He has similar lead times an is pricey. His quote was actually more than what my Indiana guy quoted plus shipping both directions. Like others have said, the first thing people will see is the fit, finish, and paint.

    Dave
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  21. #18
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    GTBradley,
    Quote: "It just would be nice to know what experiences people have had with a shop that has not done a kit car before."

    FWIW, I had my car done by the local "Vocational Training Center" where they teach body work and paint. That was 17 years ago and the paint still looks like the day they delivered it. I have received many comments on how great my paint looks at several shows, including the Huntington each Cruise-In and the [old] Knotts Berry AHA show.

    So in answer to your original inquiry, I've had GREAT experience with someone who has never done one of these cars before (mine was the first one they did, they are still doing them for local builders).



    Doc
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

  22. #19
    David aka Ducky2009 Ducky2009's Avatar
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    I went to two local shops. The first, a regular body shop. The second, a custom shop. Both quoted me 10k plus. I ended up painting it myself.

    The guys on the forum are familiar these car, and from what I've seen, do a great job. Make some calls and get on a list now. Good luck.
    MK4 Build #9035 Delivered 2/17/17, First Start & Go-Kart 6/2/17, Licensed 9/1/17
    Paint - Lightning Blue Metallic, No Hood Scoop, No Stripes
    Gen 2 Coyote Engine & TKO-600. Solid Axle, 8.8-3.55, Power Steering, Power Brakes, Dual Roll Bars
    Heater and Glove Box, Drop Trunk, Wipers, Radio, FFR Vintage Gauges, Custom Dash
    Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...MK4-Build-9035

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    What is the ballpark rate for shipping a car 500 miles for paint? I am starting to think about the same thing, but never considered shipping my car to one of FFR pros.
    Ryan
    33 Hot Rod
    350 SBC with TKO 500, 3 link rear

  24. #21
    Papa's Avatar
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    My shipping quote for an enclosed trailer from just outside of Denver to Bloomington, IN is $1,100 each way. I couldn't rent a trailer and drive it out myself for that, plus it's a 20-hour drive each way.
    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754
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  25. #22
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    My shipping quote for an enclosed trailer from just outside of Denver to Bloomington, IN is $1,100 each way. I couldn't rent a trailer and drive it out myself for that, plus it's a 20-hour drive each way.
    My wife is onboard with Bloomington, she went to school there. I like the idea of a SoCal trip, but KC is home. However, I'm with most everyone else here. You can't substitute for experience. So, it'll come down to quality; price; lead time - in that order.
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

  26. #23
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky2009 View Post
    I went to two local shops. The first, a regular body shop. The second, a custom shop. Both quoted me 10k plus. I ended up painting it myself.

    The guys on the forum are familiar these car, and from what I've seen, do a great job. Make some calls and get on a list now. Good luck.
    Nice work!
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

  27. #24
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post
    GTBradley,
    Quote: "It just would be nice to know what experiences people have had with a shop that has not done a kit car before."

    FWIW, I had my car done by the local "Vocational Training Center" where they teach body work and paint. That was 17 years ago and the paint still looks like the day they delivered it. I have received many comments on how great my paint looks at several shows, including the Huntington each Cruise-In and the [old] Knotts Berry AHA show.

    So in answer to your original inquiry, I've had GREAT experience with someone who has never done one of these cars before (mine was the first one they did, they are still doing them for local builders).



    Doc
    There's an exception to the rule. Love the color.
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

  28. #25
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Bradley,

    You already know what I'm doing, but if you want a fantastic local painter, I know of one. In fact, I was originally going to use him to do my car until I spoke with the "Jeffs". The local guy wanted to do the car body-on, which isn't necessarily wrong, but it put all the pressure on me to get the body fit perfectly, which I doubted I could do. Also, the guy is a great painter and just as in demand as either Jeff. He has similar lead times an is pricey. His quote was actually more than what my Indiana guy quoted plus shipping both directions. Like others have said, the first thing people will see is the fit, finish, and paint.

    Dave
    Thanks. I'll look into the local one, but I'm not crazy for pricey and not as experienced.
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

  29. #26
    Papa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTBradley View Post
    Thanks. I'll look into the local one, but I'm not crazy for pricey and not as experienced.
    I sent you a PM on the guy I was referring to.
    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754
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  30. #27
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    GTBradley,

    Just to clarify what you see, it was body prep'd by the "learning under-classmen", primered and undercoated by the Seniors and clear coated by the class instructor. Car was actually shot twice, 1st time with a color that FORD discontinued (FORD Royal Blue) and the 2nd time with the replacement color, FORD Royal Blue Pearl. We added a touch more pearl to the mix and used a pearl primer to bring out the color. We also used a new brand of clear coat that was experimental at the time (17 years ago).
    Worst part was the 3 month delay as the school closed for Summer Break - Bummer!

    Doc
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

  31. #28
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post
    GTBradley,

    Just to clarify what you see, it was body prep'd by the "learning under-classmen", primered and undercoated by the Seniors and clear coated by the class instructor. Car was actually shot twice, 1st time with a color that FORD discontinued (FORD Royal Blue) and the 2nd time with the replacement color, FORD Royal Blue Pearl. We added a touch more pearl to the mix and used a pearl primer to bring out the color. We also used a new brand of clear coat that was experimental at the time (17 years ago).
    Worst part was the 3 month delay as the school closed for Summer Break - Bummer!

    Doc
    That is a fantastic story. And what an experience those kids got!
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

  32. #29
    Senior Member Jdav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rychi1 View Post
    What is the ballpark rate for shipping a car 500 miles for paint? I am starting to think about the same thing, but never considered shipping my car to one of FFR pros.
    Mine was $625 each way for Atlanta to Bloomington
    MK4 #9028 - Coyote - TKO600
    Delivery: 1/30/17 First Start: 7/23/17 Legal: 10/5/17 Graduated: 10/15/18
    Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...8-Build-Thread

  33. #30
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    Just remember that there is body work and there is painting. I know Jeff Miller will not just paint - he needs to do the body work as well. He won't paint over somebody else's body work because it has led to problems in the past. So look at both, not just paint, in comparing prices, etc.
    Steve

    FFR #8305; IRS, 347; T5 Trans; EFI, 3.27 Rear; 17x9" Front; 17x10.5" Rear
    Paint - Ford Magnetic Metallic Gray (J7) with Black Stripes; Painted by "da Bat"
    Complete Kit Delivered 05/15/2014; Titled and Registered 4/14/2017 as a 1965!!

  34. #31

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    I did a lot of research on paint shops in California when I got to that stage. I have a local painter that I have used for years who is very good and I thought he would do my Cobra. He does a lot of high end, custom work. When I went to chat with him about it, even he suggested that I find someone who has lots of experience with fiberglass and specifically "replicars." I finally went with Ken Pike in Yuba City who has been great. He is very knowledgeable having done hundreds of FFR cars. The difference in talking to him and other paint people was obvious, and I think when all is said and done, you end up saving money because they know exactly what to expect and how to solve problems particular to these cars quickly and efficiently. I could not be more positive about Ken. Joel

  35. #32
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    What do you really expect or want from your paint job?

    Bob

  36. #33
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-STL View Post
    What do you really expect or want from your paint job?

    Bob
    Hi Bob, loaded question, I think The short answer is, I’m not after show-car quality, this will be nearly a daily driver, weather permitting. So, protect the car and make the young girls go wow!
    Bradley

    Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.

    The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.

  37. #34
    Papa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTBradley View Post
    Hi Bob, loaded question, I think The short answer is, I’m not after show-car quality, this will be nearly a daily driver, weather permitting. So, protect the car and make the young girls go wow!
    And with that, this discussion is sure to take a sharp left turn...
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  39. #35
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    Let me be a little clearer. I am friends with Da Bat, Ken Pike and Jeff K. All are top notch guys, and if any we were closer I would go there, no question. The local guy has done 10 +/- and almost all of them are local, why, price and no travel. We had a shop that did 18, they just priced themselves out of the market $12K.

    We found this guy and gave him a shot. Firefighter full time and body shop guy part time. (since retired from FD) He made his own fairing for his harley and has done a bunch of glass work on boats etc. his glass skills are great. Sure he can hang a fender on a Honda, but that gets really boring. Before we started, we had him go through all of the ask SRP on the other forum and he learned a lot and confirmed a lot more. His work is great, does some custom touches like stripes under the hood and makes his own scoops, we are not fans of the plastic part FFR sends, I am sure it works but we do not care for it.

    We have been doing FFR cars for 20 years and I would put a job we have done up against any jobs out there. JMHO, Richard.
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  40. #36
    mburger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTBradley View Post
    The short answer is, I’m not after show-car quality....
    Both Jeff's are going to give you show quality, and the best paint job you could possibly get, period.
    As one of the Jeff's told me, "When the car leaves my shop, it leaves with my name on it."
    If you really are not after show quality, then I would look closer at the local shops. The girls will still go wow!
    Mark
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  41. #37
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Oben View Post
    Let me be a little clearer. I am friends with Da Bat, Ken Pike and Jeff K. All are top notch guys, and if any we were closer I would go there, no question. The local guy has done 10 +/- and almost all of them are local, why, price and no travel. We had a shop that did 18, they just priced themselves out of the market $12K.

    We found this guy and gave him a shot. Firefighter full time and body shop guy part time. (since retired from FD) He made his own fairing for his harley and has done a bunch of glass work on boats etc. his glass skills are great. Sure he can hang a fender on a Honda, but that gets really boring. Before we started, we had him go through all of the ask SRP on the other forum and he learned a lot and confirmed a lot more. His work is great, does some custom touches like stripes under the hood and makes his own scoops, we are not fans of the plastic part FFR sends, I am sure it works but we do not care for it.

    We have been doing FFR cars for 20 years and I would put a job we have done up against any jobs out there. JMHO, Richard.
    ...and judging from the pictures you sent of the hood scoop, he seems to really know his fiberglass.
    Last edited by GTBradley; 12-10-2019 at 06:22 PM.
    Bradley

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  42. #38
    Senior Member GTBradley's Avatar
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    Two assumptions there. First, that you don't get show quality for a fair price and second, that local (inexperienced) is cheaper. At least that's what I'm finding. Interesting to me because the good local shop here is way more expensive than the others I'm looking at for their experience with FFR cars. All while keeping in mind Scott's comment above about the inexperienced shop adding hours to the job to get the experience.

    My mistake is thinking you have to pay BIG to get show quality.
    Bradley

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  43. #39
    Senior Member Jdav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTBradley View Post
    Hi Bob, loaded question, I think The short answer is, I’m not after show-car quality, this will be nearly a daily driver, weather permitting. So, protect the car and make the young girls go wow!
    You can do that in gel coat
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  45. #40
    Senior Member Avalanche325's Avatar
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    Stay away from the typical shops that do collision work. Your car could be sitting there almost untouched a year later. It wouldn't be the first...or the tenth time that has happened.

    Here is the real deal with "I don't want a show quality paint job". A lot of guys say that until they pick their car up. One of the non-Jeff shops used to offer both show quality and a near show quality paint job. That is until every single person that got the cheaper version starting picking things apart and asking why their car didn't look like the show quality one parked nearby. Now there is one choice. Show car. So very likely, Yes you do. Whether you want to pay for it or not is a different story. See next paragraph.

    Two of my friends used a large local custom shop. They paid some serious money and aren't that impressed. It would have been cheaper for them to ship the car to one of the Jeffs. That is from Florida. If I hadn't painted my own (With phone help from DaBat), it would have been on a truck headed for a Jeff.

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