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Thread: Front wheel rub

  1. #1
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    Front wheel rub

    Hi,
    This will be a multi question post.

    Here is the set up.

    FFV spindles.
    FFV halibrand 17” with 245/45/r17 NT555 on front.
    The alignment was done in go kart mode.
    The aft upper control arm has maybe 2 threads left on one end none on the other.
    4 1/8” tube to ground clearance in front.
    It was 4.5” but it settled. I will be changing it back to 4.5”
    The driver side front tire rubs at the 9 to 10 o’clock position when turning right but not very tight. Just enough to get a little body roll.
    The front passenger side has plenty of room.
    Ride height will make a small difference but not much because of the 9 to 10 o’clock position of the rub.

    Now for the questions.

    1. If I were to cut and shorten the aft upper control arm adjustment( it isn’t coming to me what the twist to adjust stretched out bolt is called. Sorry) and compensate by lengthening the front one would move the wheel aft slightly?

    2. I saw a post about cutting down the lip on the wheel well. This would also make more room. I do not know how far I can cut it back. It currently has about 9/16”. This is probably a Jeff Kleiner question since I am scheduled to take the car to him next winter.

    3. I do not have sway bars. I am thinking that might reduce some body roll. How difficult are they to install on a car at this stage? Do you have any recommendations for sway bars? Oh, and I have a IRS rear end.

    So far I’ve been taking the corners fairly easy as to not destroy a tire too quickly. I am very much looking foreword to having more fun on the corners.
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  2. #2
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    I just raised the front end to 4.75 inches and now I can really go around corners with just the tiniest rub. I think that if I trim the wheel well just a little it will be gone.

    I would still like to know of anything else that might create a little more room. I did read another thread on the subject but I don’t think they came up with a solution.
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  3. #3
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Pics would help. How much caster?

    Jeff

  4. #4
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    1C9D217C-83D5-4242-A28F-72CF96E2167C.jpgFD161321-63A0-44D3-A6BB-273209D0279A.jpg

    The picture of the car is with the frame 4.75” off the ground to stop the rub. I would prefer to have it a little lower. Maybe 4.25” off the ground.

    Thanks for the reply Jeff
    Last edited by Packer fan; 06-08-2019 at 10:29 PM.
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  5. #5
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    I'm only seeing camber (negative .64 & .67) and toe (1/8" total) but nothing for caster which is the critical setting for this issue. What's going on with that? Do you have a caster measurement? I'd like to see at least negative 3 degrees for manual steering and around 8 for power. If you have less negative caster the wheel will indeed get into the front of the wheel opening.

    Jeff

  6. #6
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    That lip at the edge of the opening can be removed completely. Most I have seen leave just a little so the fiberglass has maybe a double thickness at it's edge. Then a little sanding gives a nice rolled edge appearance. While more caster could help w/ the rub, I wouldn't count on it. Caster is a suspension alignment spec, not a body fit spec, so should be set at about the specs Jeff gave and that's it. For me, 4 inch ride height at the frame tubes is about right. 4.75 looks like a Jeep. If you remove that lip on the edge of the flare and it still hits, remove some more. Once that lip is gone, you can remove as much as needed and it won't really be noticeable. A bit of backround; the MkIV body is the first to have this problem as none of the previous Mks had it. I run rear wheels w/ 315s on the front of my MkII for autocrosses. I have to really crank up the shocks to keep the tire off the fender but it hits at top center. It isn't even close where yours and other MkIVs hit.
    IMG_20160701_104801389 by craig stuard, on Flickr
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    Thanks Jeff and Craig,

    It is jeepish

    I will have to figure out the caster.
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  8. #8
    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
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    "The driver side front tire rubs at the 9 to 10 o’clock position when turning right but not very tight. Just enough to get a little body roll."
    Sorry that doesn't make sense, on a right turn the left wheel tucks under the body, moving away from the fender lip! Your should cut back the fender lip till you have about 1/8", that leaves enough for the body guy to roll the edge. You rub on the left, but not the right, could be the body isn't centered.

  9. #9
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    There are lots of variables but long story short with your very common configuration of FFR spindles and 245/45-17 tires on Factory Five Halibrand replica wheels there is generally not a wheelwell to tire issue at 4" ride height as long as the body is in the proper location and the alignment is set for positive caster and negative camber.

    Jeff

  10. #10
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    image.jpg

    Some of the tire is outside the wheel well when straight. When turning the body rolls slightly to the outside of the turn. It also makes sense that the lip that is inside the wheel well that sticks out further than anything else would be the last part to clear the wheel in a turn to the opposite side of the wheel.

    Thanks for the 1/8”.

    I now have to look up what 2 points to measure the caster from before I go and complain to the guy that did my alignment.

    I believe that I would also like to add sway bars. I will probably start another post to get opinions on that.

    Thanks
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  11. #11
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    image.jpg

    With a little trimming and my front end at 4 1/8” I didn’t get any rub.... except for while cornering hard and hitting a bigger bump than I would have liked to go over.

    Now I have to find out more about the caster.
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  12. #12
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Jeff brought up body location so a couple of questions even if this might only get you an 1/8 inch. The body as shipped is usually a tight fit between the dash and the rear cockpit panel. Guys usually end up trimming the body so there is more clearance where it overlaps the dash and also to get that gap constant all across the dash. There is a reference point for front to rear body position at the door latch plate. I can't describe it adequately so suggest you search for posts by Jeff or da Bat for a picture. just a double check for you.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    I will look for those reference points.
    I did trim the body at the front and back of the body.
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  14. #14
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Post #2 here https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-body-mounting has the picture CraigS references.


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

  15. #15
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    Thanks phi leafs_frog for the picture reference .
    Mine does look very close to that.

    I think I’m in decent shape now.
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  16. #16
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Once again, check your caster. Not just for body clearance but even more so for handling and driveability.

    Jeff

  17. #17
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    BTW, you mention finding two points to measure caster. I tried that and it doesn't work too well. Problem is that there is also KPI in there. Caster is the top BJ being behind the lower BJ in side view. KPI is the top BJ being closer to the center of the car than the lower BJ. I was not able to find a way to make a direct measurement of caster. Actual caster measurement tools calculate caster by measuring the camber at 15 or 20 degrees left turn and at 15 or 20 deg right turn and plugging those #s into a formula. I use this gauge
    http://www.longacreracing.com/produc...y---NO-ADAPTER
    with my backyard adapter. the gauge has a 1/4 in coarse thread hole in it's base so easy to mount
    Align tool by craig stuard, on Flickr
    I have a self made version of this toe gauge. W/ these two you can do your own alignments. It is not hard to do, just takes a lot more time than one would like mainly because it is almost impossible to turn the sleeves w/ the car sitting on the ground. So each adjustment means jack it up, rotate sleeves, drop it down, roll it back and forth while bouncing it, and now take a new measurement.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  18. #18
    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Once again, check your caster. Not just for body clearance but even more so for handling and driveability.

    Jeff
    Isn't 1/8" toe-in a lot?

  19. #19
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    On the high end of the range for sure.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  20. #20
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    [
    I have a self made version of this toe gauge. W/ these two you can do your own alignments. It is not hard to do, just takes a lot more time than one would like mainly because it is almost impossible to turn the sleeves w/ the car sitting on the ground. So each adjustment means jack it up, rotate sleeves, drop it down, roll it back and forth while bouncing it, and now take a new measurement.[/QUOTE]

    Get four 12" vinyl tiles at home depot or similar place. Use 2 sandwiched with grease in between under each tire.
    Cheap turn plates.

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