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Thread: Roadster or Type 65?

  1. #1
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Roadster or Type 65?

    Hi,

    I am looking at building my first Factory Five car and am torn between the Roadster and Type 65.

    Always wanted a convertible and I've heard it's easier to build, but I do like the looks of the Type 65 and my wife prefers a roof/AC....
    Probably build with the 5.0L Coyote / TKO 600 / IRS.

    Anyone have any experience with the two? How different are the builds? I plan on having someone do all the body work / painting, so mainly just the build.
    I've read a lot about them, and most comment the Type 65 is a lot more body work, but is the rest of the build any different?

    Any pros/cons to the two builds?

  2. #2
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    I've done three Roadsters and finishing up a Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe. There are many similarities. General build techniques are the same. The suspensions are basically the same. Brakes and fuel are similar. Electrical is similar, although I would say the Ron Francis harness while it works in the Coupe, is more optimized for the Roadster. But having said that, the Coupe is a more difficult and complex build. The Roadster is in its fourth major version with close to 10,000 sold. Maybe over that by now. The Gen 3 is a major redesign from previous versions, with somewhere around 200 sold. So it's less mature and not as refined. You said you would farm out the body work. But for the record, I would say that's easier with the Roadster than the Coupe. The doors and cowl on the Coupe are more complex IMO. My answer would also include asking about your experience. If you're more on the beginner/light experience side, you would probably find the Roadster a better fit. If more experienced, the Coupe would be more manageable. You don't mention cost, but a Coupe build is going to be more expensive. How much depends on a lot of things, but all things being equal a Coupe is a more expensive build. Finally, I would encourage you to see a Gen 3 Coupe in person, and make sure you and your wife are comfortable getting in and out. It's more challenging than the Roadster. Even a Roadster with a top because of the wider sills on the Coupe. Good luck whatever you decide.
    Last edited by edwardb; 06-26-2019 at 09:11 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  3. #3
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response.
    I know the coupe costs a little more but not too worried about it, although it’s definitely a consideration.
    Neither of us would have problems getting in or out, both late 30’s.

    Have zero experience building a kit car and zero body work experience. Used to work at a service station doing light duty jobs and have experience swapping engines and that sorts, but that was years ago.

    Just worried I’m gonna buy a coupe and regret it half ways through.

  4. #4
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Both cars look awesome, but I think the coupe is just a little better looking. And it’s more unique.

  5. #5
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    Sounds like you have more experience then I do and I am partway though my coupe build now without any regrets. I feel it is doable for a newbie, you just need to be willing to keep at something until you get it done. I still need to do wiring, drop in the engine and transmission and do all the body work, so a ways from finished, however, nothing that seemed impossible or even like too big a wall to climb. I have read through the wiring instructions and just feel I need to follow the directions at this point. I would say the biggest challenge of the build is simply working on it. It is so easy to put something off and decide to do something else with your night. I have always enjoyed the build process and never regret spending time on it, just easier to plop down the the couch and give the body a rest you know.

    I would say that if your wife likes one better then the other, you may enjoy that support down the line. I know that for me, I'm the type that is always looking for shade if I am out in the sun, so it was a easy decision of the coupe for me. Even with the shade and AC, I expect the coupe will be fiarly hot inside. That big glass hatch in the back is like a greenhouse and even with insulation, I expect the alluminum panels to transfer some heat from the headers which go right by the footboxes to the transmission between the passengers. If your wife is expecting it to be cool and quiet inside like a modern car, I thinik you may want to go for a ride in one before you buy the kit. Not that the kit will not be livable, it is just good to understand what the car is going into it. It is a modern tube chasis with a fiberglass shell at it's heart and while you can do plenty to improve things, it will never be like a Volvo.

  6. #6
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Tree made a couple good points that I will follow up on. Whichever one you choose, being properly motivated to stick with it is key. Given your described experience level, don't expect to knock out either in the 200+ hours that more experienced builders talk about. I'm on my fourth, and nowhere near that time. But then I'm kind of slow and admit it. Probably it's a matter of expectations. These things are a lot of work and there will be uncertainty and challenges along the way. Don't say that to be negative. Rather to be realistic. If you're expecting everything to fit and play together perfectly, you will be disappointed. I've seen it happen a number of times. On the other hand, not much more rewarding than to work through it all and complete the build. Also make sure you really have the time to give to the build. Builds that take too long sometimes lose momentum. Again, a matter of motivation. Also, the point about expecting it to be fit, finish, and environment like a production built daily driver is a valid point. With care and good craftsmanship, can be made very acceptable. But the A/C is not going to be like your 3-zone A/C in your SUV, for example. I've had very good luck getting good insulation and carpet on my builds, to where there's no heat felt from the aluminum panels, so don't agree on that point. But again, takes work and that process is more complicated on the Coupe because of the chassis design. I've talked to several Coupe owners and many recommend having the rear hatch glass tinted to reduce the heat. Thinking about doing that with mine. We'll see. I don't know where you're located. If anywhere near SE Michigan, certainly welcome to visit. Have a completed Mk4 Roadster and nearing completion Gen 3 Coupe in the garage. No matter where you live, can't encourage enough to get out and see real examples. Given the time and expense, I'd even suggest a visit to Wareham. You will learn a lot and be impressed. Plus that part of the country has a lot to see so makes a fun trip. You also might consider the build school. They don't have one for the Coupe. But the Roadster school would give you a great idea of what's involved plus a sanity check on the effort required. A lot to take in, I know. But it's a blast. Hope it works out for you.
    Last edited by edwardb; 06-27-2019 at 07:11 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  7. #7
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    Thanks for the response.
    I know the coupe costs a little more but not too worried about it, although it’s definitely a consideration.
    Neither of us would have problems getting in or out, both late 30’s.

    Have zero experience building a kit car and zero body work experience. Used to work at a service station doing light duty jobs and have experience swapping engines and that sorts, but that was years ago.

    Just worried I’m gonna buy a coupe and regret it half ways through.
    I built a roadster with basically zero automotive experience. Wrote my build thread linked in my signature form a beginners perspective. That may give you an idea as to some of the challenges. EdwardB does an incredibly thorough build thread. I highly recommend you read his coupe build thread and also his roadster build threads he has linked in his posts. He is very good to throughly discuss the problem areas and the solutions.
    I will say I have learned a ton during my build and now on my non FFR current project. Reading some of the issues guys have with the coupe is somewhat intimidating to me as I contemplate doing one next. The coupe does seem substantially more complex in some areas in my opinion. They great thing you will find with this community though is whatever problem that comes up there are many here that have already dealt with it or are willing to help you with a solution.
    I would also recommend you have a plan in place for who will do your body work prior to ordering either. Finding the right guys to work on these is challenging in some parts of the country and the wait times can be substantial.
    Where are you located?
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
    Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-build-thread
    PHIL 4:13 INSTAGRAM - @scottsrides

  8. #8
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    I have done both (mostly finished coupe) and I agree with Paul's (Edwardb) comments 100%. The big time add to the coupe build is the body fitting and stuff like AC. If you are getting the body work and paint done it will cost maybe 2X a roadster.
    They are very different to drive as well, visibility out from the coupe is limited compared to an open car, not bad just very different.
    and welcome to the fun
    David W
    Mkll 4874 built in 2004
    Gen 3 coupe #16 registered 2018 painted 2019

  9. #9
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    As far as chassis assembly, plumbing and electrical I put the roadster and Coupe at pretty much par as far as difficulty. They are different but still similar processes. As has been said by Paul and David the body fitting is on a higher level.

    Good luck,
    Jeff

  10. #10
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. I have no doubt this will take a long time. I enjoy working on cars and projects in general. I get pretty bored sitting on the couch watching TV, so I’m looking for something to do. Always wanted to restore a car or build a kit car, just never had the time or money to do it. Now I do.

    I know they are not going to drive like a daily driver. I’ve driven some pretty old rough driving vehicles around and kinda know what to expect. I plan on installing all the body panels, it’s more the paint prep and paint that I won’t touch.

    Live by Atlanta, GA. I’d like to take a tour of factory five, anyone done it? I’m 6’1 so I’d like to sit in both and just see what it’s like for head/leg room.

  11. #11

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post

    Live by Atlanta, GA. I’d like to take a tour of factory five, anyone done it? I’m 6’1 so I’d like to sit in both and just see what it’s like for head/leg room.
    If you find yourself near New Orleans then we can take you for a ride in my Dark Side MK-4 or my pal's 1st Generation Daytona.
    Just understand that the current Daytona is way more refined than the earlier model since going to the space frame.
    The new platform also has a lot more room in it and my 6'4" inch brother actually fit once he got through the door.
    At 6'1" you only need is the Kirkey Low Back Vintage or Kirkey 55 Series to fit in either car.

    https://youtu.be/CaRlqMmKIzk

    NOTE:
    ..I'm A Closet Falcon's Fan When Dey Aint Playin Da-Saints In Da-Dome!
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 06-27-2019 at 12:34 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Thanks for the offer and info


    I’m a Vikings fan, transplant from MN.

  13. #13
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I have no doubt this will take a long time. I enjoy working on cars and projects in general. I get pretty bored sitting on the couch watching TV, so I’m looking for something to do. Always wanted to restore a car or build a kit car, just never had the time or money to do it. Now I do.

    I know they are not going to drive like a daily driver. I’ve driven some pretty old rough driving vehicles around and kinda know what to expect. I plan on installing all the body panels, it’s more the paint prep and paint that I won’t touch.

    Live by Atlanta, GA. I’d like to take a tour of factory five, anyone done it? I’m 6’1 so I’d like to sit in both and just see what it’s like for head/leg room.
    I never said anything about the way these ride or drive. My comments were relative to the fit and finish compared to a DD, and also the refinement of systems like A/C. Riding or driving is actually the good news IMO. These are nothing like an "old rough driving vehicle" in my experience. Especially if you go with IRS as you stated. With the improvements Factory Five has made over their now nearly 25 years, the cars are surprisingly nice to drive and the suspension while firm is relatively compliant. Combined with the very stiff frame you'd be surprised I think. Much more like a tightly wound modern sports car. I've been to Factory Five several times, and have had several tours. So have lots of others. It's common, and they will treat you very well. If Dave is around, he will almost always introduce himself and even maybe give you a tour himself. It's not a real big place, but fascinating in my experience.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  14. #14
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I have no doubt this will take a long time. I enjoy working on cars and projects in general. I get pretty bored sitting on the couch watching TV, so I’m looking for something to do. Always wanted to restore a car or build a kit car, just never had the time or money to do it. Now I do.

    I know they are not going to drive like a daily driver. I’ve driven some pretty old rough driving vehicles around and kinda know what to expect. I plan on installing all the body panels, it’s more the paint prep and paint that I won’t touch.

    Live by Atlanta, GA. I’d like to take a tour of factory five, anyone done it? I’m 6’1 so I’d like to sit in both and just see what it’s like for head/leg room.
    I have taken the tour. They are very accommodating to guest there. Dave Smith gave me a great tour and even took me out to lunch with some of his guys. At 6'3" I found the space inside the Gen 3 Coupe just fine. Getting in and out required some bending for sure. The roadster is certainly a lot easier to get in/out because you can basically just stand up in it and step out.
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
    Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-build-thread
    PHIL 4:13 INSTAGRAM - @scottsrides

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