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Thread: Replacing the fuel pump on my MKIII - FAIL!

  1. #41
    i.e.427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    Frank (ie427) mentioned there is a stand alone module that I could replace it with. I’d have to figure out a way to wire it.


    https://www.ebay.com/i/173942057237?...RoCvKcQAvD_BwE

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...134133&jsn=495

    You'd also need a pigtail to wire it in. I've never heard of one of these stock Ford relays letting go but.................... I'd harvest one with the pigtail from a pick and pull. I have a wiring diagram for this David.

    Frank
    i.e.427 is located in the Southern California Inland Empire. We help Factory Five customers and builders realize their dreams by providing assembly, fabrication and maintenance for their Factory Five projects.

  2. #42

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    Frank,

    I actually agree in this case. The only reason for this relay is that the fuel pump draws more than the output transistor on the A9L can provide. It's only rated for around 500ma and the pump likely draws 1.5 amps. BUT the relay contacts are rated for 40 amps, and it doesn't cycle during normal service. It goes ON for 3 seconds to pressurize the system at startup, then goes OFF. As soon as the Crank Position Sensor provides input to the A9L, it closes again, and stays that way as long as the engine is running. If the engine stalls or stops (for whatever reason), the fuel pump relay goes OFF again as a safety measure. I'm concerned the problem is elsewhere.

    Allan

  3. #43
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    Frank are you saying I need one of those or both? Are they considered g-3? g-4? g5?

    If I went to a pick-a-part where is this part they located? Will normal electronics shops have new replacement pins?


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  4. #44

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    Dave,

    I would pull the relay board from your car and test that relay with a 12v power supply. If it closes, check for continuity between the contacts. It may be OK. No sense in changing a relay that doesn't need changing. My concern is that the signal to close the relay possibly isn't getting to the relay board.

    Allan

  5. #45
    Itchief's Avatar
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    David

    Just another thought on replacing the defective board

    You could use three separate relays with wiring pig tails, three inline fuse holders, lineman’s splices, solder, heat Shrink tubing and wire loom to create your own custom replacement to locate the relays wherever you need to

    Rick
    #8475 Complete Kit Delivered Nov 2014, started Nov 2015, Street Legal Apr 2016, Paint and Interior Completed Aug 2017, 390 BBF, March accessory kit, MSD Atomic EFI and Ready to run, TKO 500 with MidShift kit, hooker headers, 3 link, track lock with 3.55, sway bars, power steering, wipers, heater

  6. #46
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    Reset the inertia switch?

  7. #47

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    Dave,

    Do you still have a "test" connector in your wiring harness? If so, do the following (per the diagram in post #3):

    https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-for...-start.899643/

    The jumper should force the fuel pump relay to close and the pump to run continuously. If not, follow the trouble-shooting advise. Inertia switch is a prime candidate.

    Allan

  8. #48
    Senior Member CDXXVII's Avatar
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    Definitely a good one to verify. Eliminate the obvious

    Quote Originally Posted by AC Bill View Post
    Reset the inertia switch?
    F5R #7841: Anniversary Edition MK4, Ford Racing 427, Edelbrock EFI, Gas-N Pipes, Stainless Headers, TKO600, 3.31 Moser 3-Link, 17" Halibrands

  9. #49
    Senior Member SSNK4US's Avatar
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    Yes Dave that was exactly the thread I was taking about. Also the relay pictures I posted were just a picture I took from amazon for showing what’s on relays. Not the exact one. And also what I meant by modify with dykes (or a dremel) is I knew it was soldered in but looking at specs you can see they are wide terminals factory cut down to be soldered. Typical.
    I also thought of what Itchief said. Not a bad idea. Solder or crimp type connectors to relay. That’s what I meant by modifying it. (Or Mickey Mouse lol) lots of ideas out here so it’s probably getting kind of confusing for you Even if you replaced the relay, Panasonic or my Bosch idea etc etc, my main concern is what is drawing so much current that you keep frying that relay? It’s worked for how long? Fried one relay and your board. Ya think maybe ok bad relay? But two now?
    Somethings up. Also did that other relay actually fry? Or did something go wrong with that mess of a board? And no I’m not bagging on your soldering. Lol Did you check the relay you swapped over? Desolder and break out your multi meter.
    Sorry Dave Everybody HATES electrical problems. Work backwards and eliminate stuff as you go. Don’t get frustrated.
    Wish I lived closer to help. Shoot I wish I could walk right now too!

    Kurt

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  10. #50
    i.e.427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    Frank are you saying I need one of those or both? Are they considered g-3? g-4? g5?

    If I went to a pick-a-part where is this part they located? Will normal electronics shops have new replacement pins?

    Both are the same part from different retailers. The CCRM (as it is called by Ford) is usually located on the passenger side inner fender inside the engine compartment. These can be found on most 1994 -2000 Mustangs. Unsure what g-3, g-4 & g-5 are? Not sure what pins you are referring too?

    The CCRM (Constant Control Relay Module) controls fuel pump, 2 cooling fans (or high and low fan), ECM, and A/C clutch control. Fan relays are rated to 60amps, fuel pump at 20 amps.
    Last edited by i.e.427; 07-10-2019 at 10:08 PM. Reason: Clarification
    i.e.427 is located in the Southern California Inland Empire. We help Factory Five customers and builders realize their dreams by providing assembly, fabrication and maintenance for their Factory Five projects.

  11. #51
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    You guys really spooked me. I thought I had checked the inertia switch but went and double-checked and it is not tripped.

    I have to admin my eyes glaze over when I read about running ground trip wires eec test wires, bla bla bla. (adhd I guess, just can't get through the post on testing)

    Not sure what I want to do. Well, what I want to do is tear out the whole harness!

    Going back to Frank's solution, buying a replacement module looks like it could work, I just don't know where to buy the pigtail, how to wire it in, run new pins etc.

    So yeah. wiring is frustrating for me...



    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  12. #52

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    Dave,

    I wish I were closer to you; this isn't rocket science. You either have +12volts to the relay board, or you don't. Your relay board either has a ground, or it doesn't. You've got to start with the basics. Depending on your wiring harness, there could also be a fusible link in the harness. Changing the relay will buy you nothing if there is no signal to turn it on. Can you beg, borrow, or steal a logic probe? Even a test light will do. Assuming that "some" of the led's on that board are ON when the key is in RUN, there has to be a simple reason why the signal to turn ON the fuel pump isn't there. It "could" be a bad relay, but that's highly unlikely as Frank said. Not impossible, but unlikely. Certainly not worth the hassle of replacing the relay, only to have it NOT be the problem. Using a logic probe, or even a cheap HF voltmeter, you could check to see if you have +12v IMMEDIATELY after turning the ignition switch to RUN (first 3 seconds only). If not, you need to trace the fuel pump wiring back to a place where you DO have +12v for 3 seconds in RUN. If you get all the way to the A9L, and there is no +12V, then the driver transistor on the computer is shot. It happens. The circuit is pretty simple.

    Allan

  13. #53
    i.e.427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    You guys really spooked me.
    Not sure what I want to do. Well, what I want to do is tear out the whole harness!

    Going back to Frank's solution, buying a replacement module looks like it could work, I just don't know where to buy the pigtail, how to wire it in, run new pins etc.

    So yeah. wiring is frustrating for me...


    I feel a junk yard run! Nothing better than cruising through a junk yard looking for cool stuff. I have the wiring diagram as well, although I think I already mentioned that.
    i.e.427 is located in the Southern California Inland Empire. We help Factory Five customers and builders realize their dreams by providing assembly, fabrication and maintenance for their Factory Five projects.

  14. #54
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    Frank (and friends),

    Is there a way to just bypass the fuel pump relay circuit on this board altogether, maybe run it independently with a switch and relay through the i-squared harness?


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  15. #55
    i.e.427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    Frank (and friends),

    Is there a way to just bypass the fuel pump relay circuit on this board altogether, maybe run it independently with a switch and relay through the i-squared harness?

    I don't see any reason you couldn't wire in a separate relay, bypassing the I-Squared relay.
    i.e.427 is located in the Southern California Inland Empire. We help Factory Five customers and builders realize their dreams by providing assembly, fabrication and maintenance for their Factory Five projects.

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