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Thread: Electrical Drain thru flashers

  1. #1
    mcwho's Avatar
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    Electrical Drain thru flashers

    Today I was feeling around where the windscreen brackets mount to the frame to determine if they are mounted with the correct washers, another post on here.

    I noticed that Both of the Flashers were very warm. I am thinking something is sucking up juice when the igition os shut off and will have to resolve. I have also noticed ever since we finished the kit 2 1/2 years ago that the batter drains with the car sitting in the garage. I nebver really put 2 and 2 together but I know see that there is something amiss.

    I find that the flashers both the T signal and 4 way flast will operate with the key off. Now I know why my first battery drained all the time and why my new battery drains as well, both are deep ccyle.

    I am going to find my wiring diagram and see whats up. I can understand the 4 way flashers working w the key but not the turn signal, and shy are the flasher units warm???

    I do have a master kill sw but have not been suing it doe to my own stupidity.
    Baghdad Bob

    Complete Kit ordered Feb 2009, Delivered July 2010, serial @ 7287, Power Brakes, Power Steering w HEIDTS Valve, Hydralic clutch, 15" Wheels, BFG Tires, 331 stroker w Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, Edelbrock Performer Air Gap Intake and Quick Fuel 650 carb. IRS w 3.27, TKO-600. FFMETAL Firewall Forward, FFMETAL Dropped Battery Box in Trunk, Enlarged Passenger footbox, Breeze Cubby storage, Breeze Seat Brackets, Herbs Door Panels.

  2. #2
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    I'm going to assume Ron Francis harness. If not, answers may/may not apply. You are correct. The 4-way hazard flashers are a battery circuit and should operate without the ignition key turned on. Along with your headlights, brake lights, horn, and courtesy lights. The turn signals are on an ignition circuit and should not operate without the key on. Properly wired, the battery circuits do not drain the battery so that was an indication something was up. Sounds like you have something wired wrong, e.g. the hazard power is backfeeding into your turn signal circuit. Somehow in the process drawing current. Standard turn signal flashers (e.g. not the newer solid state types) are a thermal switch and do generate a slight amount of heat. But in normal use, you should be able to feel it. So the fact that they're warm to the touch confirms to me they're drawing current when they shouldn't be. Tell us a little more how your car is wired, e.g. what are you using for a turn signal and hazard switch, and are they wired exactly like the RF schematic? Also how are your indicator light wired? If only using one, versus two as shown in the schematic, that can be a source of feedback.
    Last edited by edwardb; 07-06-2019 at 01:46 PM.
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  3. #3
    Boydster's Avatar
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    " ...the hazard power is backfeeding into your turn signal circuit." Exactly what I thought when reading the OP. I'd start there.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    If your relays are warm, that could mean that they are energized all the time . . . do you have them wired to be deactivated with the key off or wired to be activated with the key off? Relays only draw about 200 Ma activated but over a period of time, could drain a battery.

    Like Paul mentioned, if using a single dash indicator for TS, lack of directional diodes can cause a backfeed.

    Doc
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

  5. #5
    mcwho's Avatar
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    I am using a small dash indicator for the turn signals, reverse indicator, and neutral indicator. I wired as in the ron frances book, there is a pink lead that goes to a spdt switch in my case. I originally was going to use the turn signal switch supplied by another vendor. Since the TS circuit is only a 3 wire circuit left, right, and ground it was pretty simple to setup. i dont see where I would change the ts and hazard flashers to be controlled from the ignition switch.

    I will look at it more in detail soon, my dash is help in with brackets thankfully and can be accessed easity. I am gonna look at the ign switch wiring as well. For now, All i need is the master kill switch used.

    Bob
    Baghdad Bob

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  6. #6
    Papa's Avatar
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    The pink feed for the 4-way hazards runs back to the BATT FED section of the fuse panel. The gray Turn Signal feed wire runs back to the IGN FED section of the fuse panel. On your ignition switch, the orange wire is for the IGN FED, Brown wire is for the ACC FED, and Red wire is for the BATT FED. The hazard switch gets wired only on one end of the switch with the pigtailed pink feed wired in the center and the L/R hazard wires on the same end of the six-pin switch provided in the kit. The turn signals switch only has three pins with the feed in the center and L/R to the outer pins. The other two IGN FED wires that are available are the orange EFI Coil wire and the tan electric choke wire. If you are using these for anything on your car, check those circuits for a possible back feed condition as well.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    Quote: "Since the TS circuit is only a 3 wire circuit left, right, and ground it was pretty simple to setup". NOT true. The three wires are: TS signal power (flasher) IN, OUT to right and OUTout to left. Nothing gets grounded thru the stalk switch.

    That being said, I suppose you could ground each side with the flip of the stalk, but the circuit wouldn't change . . . ground IN, ground OUT to right and ground OUT to left . . .

    Doc
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

  8. #8
    mcwho's Avatar
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    I can see that this post is going to get much bigger soon. I got in touch with Ron Frances after I thought I lost my Ron Frances manual. I didnt loose it and I noticed that the manual that I have is NOT the same as the PDF version that Ron Frances sent to me.

    To Start with the wiring diagram for the dash is totally missing and there is a duplicate page 18 and 19 which shows Front Harness, sending Unit Harness, and Rear Harness. There fore I was in the blind on how to wire the dash. Now it comes to light 1 1/2 years after the kit was completed.

    So, If you have a kit purchased arout 2009 and the Ron Frances manual is as follows:

    14559 Revision F April 2009

    I don't understand how there can be two versions of the same version. I would like to hear from anyone that has this version and want to know what is on their page 18 and 19 layout.

    On the same version PDF that I got from RF page 18 IS a diagram of the dash wiring layout.
    Baghdad Bob

    Complete Kit ordered Feb 2009, Delivered July 2010, serial @ 7287, Power Brakes, Power Steering w HEIDTS Valve, Hydralic clutch, 15" Wheels, BFG Tires, 331 stroker w Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, Edelbrock Performer Air Gap Intake and Quick Fuel 650 carb. IRS w 3.27, TKO-600. FFMETAL Firewall Forward, FFMETAL Dropped Battery Box in Trunk, Enlarged Passenger footbox, Breeze Cubby storage, Breeze Seat Brackets, Herbs Door Panels.

  9. #9
    mcwho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwho View Post
    I can see that this post is going to get much bigger soon. I got in touch with Ron Frances after I thought I lost my Ron Frances manual. I didnt loose it and I noticed that the manual that I have is NOT the same as the PDF version that Ron Frances sent to me.

    To Start with the wiring diagram for the dash is totally missing and there is a duplicate page 18 and 19 which shows Front Harness, sending Unit Harness, and Rear Harness. There fore I was in the blind on how to wire the dash. Now it comes to light 1 1/2 years after the kit was completed.

    So, If you have a kit purchased arout 2009 and the Ron Frances manual is as follows:

    14559 Revision F April 2009

    I don't understand how there can be two versions of the same version. I would like to hear from anyone that has this version and want to know what is on their page 18 and 19 layout.

    On the same version PDF that I got from RF page 18 IS a diagram of the dash wiring layout.
    I am using separate indicators for Left And right turn signals.

    I also have a Neutral indicator, a reverse indicator, an alternator indicator,

    Being that there is no diagram of the dash wiring in my version of the RF wiring manual, there were a lot of issues that we just had to "Figure Out" now I suppose I' will spend hours and hours to fix what I wrong.

    I was really surprised that the version of the manual the RF sent to me was NOT the same as the version that i recieved in hardcopy format.
    Baghdad Bob

    Complete Kit ordered Feb 2009, Delivered July 2010, serial @ 7287, Power Brakes, Power Steering w HEIDTS Valve, Hydralic clutch, 15" Wheels, BFG Tires, 331 stroker w Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, Edelbrock Performer Air Gap Intake and Quick Fuel 650 carb. IRS w 3.27, TKO-600. FFMETAL Firewall Forward, FFMETAL Dropped Battery Box in Trunk, Enlarged Passenger footbox, Breeze Cubby storage, Breeze Seat Brackets, Herbs Door Panels.

  10. #10
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    I get it that you're frustrated about the documentation. I would be too. But FWIW, I've been kicking around these RF harnesses for a number of builds and revisions. The part of the harness you're dealing with (turn signals, hazards, instrument panel, etc.) hasn't changed much if at all. Yes, they made it easier for Speedhut gauges and other cosmetic kinds of things. But the underlying wiring and principles haven't changed. If you really have the turn signals wired as you described, and Doc pointed out is wrong, that could be part or all of your problem. None of that has changed over the years.
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  11. #11
    mcwho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    I get it that you're frustrated about the documentation. I would be too. But FWIW, I've been kicking around these RF harnesses for a number of builds and revisions. The part of the harness you're dealing with (turn signals, hazards, instrument panel, etc.) hasn't changed much if at all. Yes, they made it easier for Speedhut gauges and other cosmetic kinds of things. But the underlying wiring and principles haven't changed. If you really have the turn signals wired as you described, and Doc pointed out is wrong, that could be part or all of your problem. None of that has changed over the years.
    Edward, Thanks for weighing in. My frustration is that I was in the Blind for most of the dash wiring. It is NOT rocket science I agree, I looked at another version of the RF instructions, Its interesting that they DID point out in that version which cirtcuis were Ign Key fed, Battery Fed and Headlight sw fed.
    Im sure I will figure it out with or without input from RF.

    If nothing else I can add a diode or two or a relay or two to ONLY energize accessories when the Key is ON.

    In my mind the ONLY thing that sb activated with the key off is the 4 way flashers. There could have been a checklist of what works when.

    Bob
    Baghdad Bob

    Complete Kit ordered Feb 2009, Delivered July 2010, serial @ 7287, Power Brakes, Power Steering w HEIDTS Valve, Hydralic clutch, 15" Wheels, BFG Tires, 331 stroker w Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, Edelbrock Performer Air Gap Intake and Quick Fuel 650 carb. IRS w 3.27, TKO-600. FFMETAL Firewall Forward, FFMETAL Dropped Battery Box in Trunk, Enlarged Passenger footbox, Breeze Cubby storage, Breeze Seat Brackets, Herbs Door Panels.

  12. #12
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwho View Post
    In my mind the ONLY thing that sb activated with the key off is the 4 way flashers...

    Bob
    You want more than that. Headlights and related (running lights, courtesy lights), brake lights, and horn all should work without the key on. Later versions of the RF panel added a radio memory wire and actually moved the cooling fan to a battery circuit. But your vintage the cooling fan should be an ignition circuit.

    But back to your original question. You said the two flasher relays were warm all the time and your battery was draining. Even in normal use the flasher relays should not feel warm to the touch. The turn signal flasher should never see voltage with the key off. Both of those point to a wiring error somewhere, or backfeeding. You said you have two indicator lights (L+R) for the turns signals. A single indicator is a common backfeed path, so forget about that. The actual hazard switch is another common backfeed cause if not wire properly with the right switch. The fact that the hazard circuit is a battery circuit (e.g. always on) yet your turn signal flasher seems to be drawing current all the time, and the two (turn signal + hazards) are related, that's the area I'd be focusing on. Also the turn signal wiring per post #7.
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