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Thread: Side Pipe Rattle - With Video - After MANY attempts to correct.

  1. #1
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    Side Pipe Rattle - With Video - After MANY attempts to correct.

    On the Hot Rod power tour, I developed a large rattle in my PS side pipe area. Coincidentally (and fortunately for me), it happened in Jeff Kliener's neck of the woods. I went to his house, and he was nice enough to help me re-attach a loose side pipe bracket. And, to do it properly this time. Thanks again, Jeff.

    The rattle went away for the next couple of weeks, but then it returned. Thinking that I now know what is wrong, I crawl under the car expecting to see if I can find a loose fastener, but the fastener is still installed properly.

    I say to myself, "Well, I guess the 'inside' side pipe tube may have come loose as I've read on the forum by others. It must be rattling around in there." So I run up some fasteners on the underside of the side pipe to hold the inner pipe in place. But the rattle is still persistent.

    Each time (yes, it's been several times now) that I make some sort of adjustment to the hanger bracket, the noise goes away for a couple of hours but returns. I increased the diameter of the fastener thinking that maybe the smaller one had lost some of it's grip. But that hasn't helped.

    I actually took the side pipe completely off to redo the hanger, place rubber in between the hanger and frame, physically shake the side pipe to see if I could hear the sound of the inner pipe rattling(I couldn't). I ran fasteners up there anyway. I took off the hanger and reinstalled.

    I'm using 1.5" #10 self drill and tap fasteners to hold all this in place. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED! It's got to be in that hanger area somehow.

    Are my fasteners too long and hitting the steel frame somehow? It didn't rattle for the first 15,000 miles with those fasteners.
    Are my fasteners not long enough to hold the inner side pipe tube? I can feel the fastener going into both pieces.


    Both videos were taken on the same 10 mile stretch home.
    In the first video (55mph), The Rattle comes when lifting my foot off the gas (listen to the motor vs when the rattle appears) https://youtu.be/gmvzdotIIDo

    In the second video, I'm staying a consistent 35 mph. The rattle is constant too. https://youtu.be/K5fgslNmBEU


    Jeff and I under the car while he shows me the problem and how to solve a month ago:
    IMG_9139 by D. R., on Flickr

    Excessive Fasteners in the bottom of the side pipe after getting frustrated with the constant rattling! Didn't help - may not be the issue.

    2019-07-10_10-02-45 by D. R., on Flickr
    Last edited by DadofThree; 07-10-2019 at 09:46 AM.
    Dave
    Mk 3.1 - #6882 - 5.0L 302 - FiTech EFI - 3-Link - 3.08 Ratio - 15" Wheels
    Greenhorn and doing the best I can
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  2. #2
    Cobra Addict AtlantaCobra's Avatar
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    I know how frustrating that can be. Had the same problem several years ago and must have run 10 screws into the underside of the pipe. Your sound is a little different to me. Almost sounds like it's not necessarily coming from inside of the pipe. You mentioned the hanger, and maybe that's it. But there isn't a whole lot there to mess with and I'm sure you've explored that one. Not sure it's highly recommended, but I got to the point where I ran a coat hanger into the pipe to see if I could feel something loose in there.
    There's always a fix by getting new pipes
    -Greg

  3. #3
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    It appears you have a crack in your pipe right by the heat wrap. Have you inspected the fill length of the pipe under the wrap? If all the welds inside broke, you will chase it forever. I had to weld the inner sleeve three times on my old 3.1. I went with Gas-N pipes for this build.

    Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdonnel View Post
    It appears you have a crack in your pipe right by the heat wrap.
    Wow Scott! Good Eye! I now see what you see. I'll check it out closer this evening.


    Keep The Ideas Coming!
    Dave
    Mk 3.1 - #6882 - 5.0L 302 - FiTech EFI - 3-Link - 3.08 Ratio - 15" Wheels
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  5. #5
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    Dave are you certain that the noise is coming from your exhaust. Is there something inside the car rattling... like your passenger side seat belt buckle or something under the seat? I just don't hear a "metal to metal" sound as much as something actually loose inside the cabin. Just my $.02 worth.

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 ( #8 of 20 ) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    I'd remove the heat wrap and see what your missing first . . . then address the cracks in the pipe where the hanger bracket mounts.

    Unfortunately, the side pipes from F5 have a known issue with the inner baffle coming loose and rattling really bad. I [personally] ditched the the pipes after the first screws went in, wasn't going to continually fight a bad situation. Bought some replacement glass packs from Summit and welded up my own side pipes . . . same diameter outside, 3" internal diameter. That combination quieted the car down 10 db. Also made the hanger "cradle" the pipe rather than stick to it at a right angle. My pipes have been on my car now 15 years with no issues, no internal noises that need screws to fix.

    FWIW, you might want to get longer screws . . .

    Also, no need for a screw in the collector, baffle doesn't go that far forward.

    Doc
    Last edited by Big Blocker; 07-10-2019 at 09:01 PM.
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAsp427 View Post
    Dave are you certain that the noise is coming from your exhaust. Is there something inside the car rattling... like your passenger side seat belt buckle or something under the seat? I just don't hear a "metal to metal" sound as much as something actually loose inside the cabin. Just my $.02 worth.
    Not completely sure. I need someone hanging out of the PS side to check. come on by I'll check again for other items like the seatbelt, but I normally run without a passenger, and haven't heard this noise in the past.


    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post

    Also, no need for a screw in the collector, baffle doesn't go that far forward.

    Doc
    Yep, I learned that as soon as I drilled the hole The screw is now in there just to fill the hole.


    Quote Originally Posted by DadofThree View Post
    I'll check it out closer this evening.
    I didn't check last night. Getting home from church too late, i felt a little lazy.
    Dave
    Mk 3.1 - #6882 - 5.0L 302 - FiTech EFI - 3-Link - 3.08 Ratio - 15" Wheels
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  8. #8

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Would this be a possible muffler replacement?

    https://www.jegs.com/i/Dynomax/289/24241/10002/-1

    Keep the header portion, add some turn outs and some mounting tabs and you are done.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Avalanche325's Avatar
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    Probably not, but sound can travel. Check your headers. Mine and a friends both cracked #1 right up by the flange at the engine. His made an awful rattle. Mine had that ticking typical of a leak.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    Dave, that is exactly what I used 15 years ago from Summit (read my post above). Prices have gone up a bit and mine weren't stainless steel. that wasn't an issue back then, I was going to have them powdercoated anyway.

    I also re-fabricated my 4-into-4's to use band clamps instead of the four bolt circus act that is factory supplied - that required two "merge collectors" to be welded in back-to-back, kinda like what is now being offered by some of the vendors on here.
    Guess mine was the beta test for that configuration . . . that also allowed me to mount my O2 sensors where they are factory designed to be.

    Doc
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

  11. #11
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    Well, It's the side pipe bracket. It has separated from the pipe.

    https://youtu.be/QNo4fdksrG8
    Dave
    Mk 3.1 - #6882 - 5.0L 302 - FiTech EFI - 3-Link - 3.08 Ratio - 15" Wheels
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  12. #12
    Papa's Avatar
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    Dave,

    If you want another set of FFR raw steel pipes, PM me. I have the pipes that came with my kit and were used for go carting before I installed my Gas-N pipes. Cover the shipping and they're yours.

    Dave
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

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  14. #13

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Dave,

    If you want another set of FFR raw steel pipes, PM me. I have the pipes that came with my kit and were used for go carting before I installed my Gas-N pipes. Cover the shipping and they're yours.

    Dave
    Best Solution & Best Offer Ever!

    ..This is what Factory Five is all about!

  15. #14
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    Thank you for the offer, Papa.

    I'm wondering why this happened.

    Jeff Kleiner, I saw in a recent thread where you mentioned to Carl to just have one bolt snug on the side pipe bracket where it attaches to the side pipe. Is this the reason why? Have you seen this before?

    I do keep my pipes uncoated, but would have thought that this shouldn't have happened after 13 months of driving.
    Dave
    Mk 3.1 - #6882 - 5.0L 302 - FiTech EFI - 3-Link - 3.08 Ratio - 15" Wheels
    Greenhorn and doing the best I can
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  16. #15
    BadAsp427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DadofThree View Post
    Thank you for the offer, Papa.

    I'm wondering why this happened.

    Jeff Kleiner, I saw in a recent thread where you mentioned to Carl to just have one bolt snug on the side pipe bracket where it attaches to the side pipe. Is this the reason why? Have you seen this before?

    I do keep my pipes uncoated, but would have thought that this shouldn't have happened after 13 months of driving.
    Yes, that was what he was talking about... by having only one of the bolts in the bracket and not super tight, it allows for a little bit of movement during engine torque movement. So glad you found it, but I was looking forward to hanging out of your car as you drove down the road at break neck speeds...

    Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 ( #8 of 20 ) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
    Build Thread Click Here
    First Start 11-1-18
    ----First GoCart 11-7-18
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  17. #16
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DadofThree View Post
    Jeff Kleiner, I saw in a recent thread where you mentioned to Carl to just have one bolt snug on the side pipe bracket where it attaches to the side pipe. Is this the reason why? Have you seen this before?
    Yes, this is exactly why I recommend using only one bolt snugged but not clamped tight. Many don't get as many miles as you did before the tab rips out.

    Jeff

  18. #17
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    I brought the side pipe into work today to do a little touch up on the bracket.

    We have a great guy here who doesn't mind helping out with small weld jobs. Thanks James!

    First off, Thanks again to Scott for the Eagle Eye!
    Second, thank you to Papa for the very kind offer!

    The "Fix"
    As mentioned, I brought the pipe to work today to get it welded up.
    James first hammered the bracket back into position. Then sanded down the area down to the raw metal. At that point we could really see all of the little cracks that had developed, and how bad the overall condition really was. He then welded all the way around the bracket, and also filled in the cracks that had started running away from the bracket. I'll be re-wrapping and reinstalling the pipe this evening or tomorrow.

    Pics of Before and After:

    IMG-5418 by D. R., on Flickr

    IMG-5419 by D. R., on Flickr

    IMG-5420 by D. R., on Flickr


    This is still before the welding took place. Just a closer look of the cracking

    20190712_132415 by D. R., on Flickr

    20190712_132420 by D. R., on Flickr

    James Welding it up, and filling in the cracks:

    20190712_132534 by D. R., on Flickr

    20190712_133708 by D. R., on Flickr
    Dave
    Mk 3.1 - #6882 - 5.0L 302 - FiTech EFI - 3-Link - 3.08 Ratio - 15" Wheels
    Greenhorn and doing the best I can
    My photos are at: My Flickr acct
    Videos are at: YouTube Videos
    Blog @ BuildaRoadster.com

  19. #18
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    An inherent issue with the FFR side-pipes, that's been around for over a decade.

    I'm surprised the FF manual hasn't addressed that yet, as the single bolt modification has been around for years and years, on the FFCars.com forum.
    There's also some very informational threads on things to watch out for, and other mods done, to do with mounting the side pipe brackets to the frame.

  20. #19
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    The pipe is back on, and we're back in business. I took a 125+ mile trip today with out an issue. Thank you everyone
    Dave
    Mk 3.1 - #6882 - 5.0L 302 - FiTech EFI - 3-Link - 3.08 Ratio - 15" Wheels
    Greenhorn and doing the best I can
    My photos are at: My Flickr acct
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    Blog @ BuildaRoadster.com

  21. #20
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    Looks like a Mad Max movie car's set of sidepipe's..
    Did you throw a coat or two of paint on them, before re-installing them?

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC Bill View Post
    Looks like a Mad Max movie car's set of sidepipe's..
    Did you throw a coat or two of paint on them, before re-installing them?
    Yep. I like the raw look of the pipes. I did indeed hit the new weld with some high temp paint
    Dave
    Mk 3.1 - #6882 - 5.0L 302 - FiTech EFI - 3-Link - 3.08 Ratio - 15" Wheels
    Greenhorn and doing the best I can
    My photos are at: My Flickr acct
    Videos are at: YouTube Videos
    Blog @ BuildaRoadster.com

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