CT Owners Beware - Motor Vehicle Assessment Tax Increases!

[Badfish]

Figure I'll provided a bit of an update, and always open to suggestions and advice:

Registration / titling: I think I'm close with getting the car retitled as a 1965. It's been a lot of conversations / communications with forum members, one of the inspectors and the title department. All have been helpful. I'll leave out a lot of the details that got me to this point, but DMV agrees that the title can be corrected to 1965 Composite Cobra, and the registration updated as well.

However, they are saying that composite vehicles do not qualify for Classic plates. This concerns me, since the classic plate is what firmly caps the tax assessment at $500 (vs. the $50,000 they are currently [incorrectly] assessing it at). Without the classic plate, I think the assessors will continue to abuse me, even with a 1965 title. Also, my car is currently registered as a 2004, so would be 20 years old in 2024 (which should then be eligible for classic plates), so should I stick with it as 2004? If I go to a 1965 registration w/o the classic plates, not sure that that means for an assessment. I think they will still use their 'google search' and pick high value, non-representive replicas for the assessment.

Another forum member was titled in CT as a 1965 Cobra Roadster and got classic plates, but I'm told they won't title it like that for me.

Assessment: I appealed the 2020 assessment earlier this week. TBD is approved or declined. I will say that at least this year, the 1-person panel member seems knowledgeable in these cars to an extend, and hopefully I made the case very clear on a 18 year old factory five kit vs. other high end kits. We'll see the result after he reviews it with the other panel members for a decision.

If these paths don't work, not sure what I'm going to do, but I cannot sustain an additional $5000 in vehicle property tax over the next 3 years (or longer!).

[Papa]

Have you had the car appraised by a real appraiser? I would think that having an appraised value would go a long way towards making your case with the State.

[Badfish]

Hey Papa - I haven't had an appraisal done. It may help, but I'm leery to spend (an incremental) ~$400 on an appraisal, not knowing / guaranteeing if it would lead to success for me.

I asked them to provide examples of the cars they used for the assessment, received a response of: "We did not maintain copies of each of the 36 listings, just the average listed price". How convenient!

[Badfish]

Well, for the second year in a row, my appeal was DECLINED. So, over the past two years, I'll have paid roughly $2700 in vehicle property tax on a kit bought in 2002 and built with a $1000 donor.


I've connected with DMV, who has been quite responsive once I found the right people. They would revise my title to 1965 from 2004 (year it was registered), but stated that 'composite' vehicles are not eligible for classic plates. Am I waiting for response on if composite vehicles are ever eligible for classic plates (i.e. based on kit sales order date, frame manufacturing date, etc).


I'm out of options, but cannot continue to be subjected to these exorbitant taxes on a kit car. The next tax cycle starts Oct 1.


Watch out fellow Connecticut enthusiasts, you may be next!

[Tbev]

Being a fellow CT resident who is in the planning stages of his build, this thread depresses me. I know we get killed in taxes in general but I always thought we’d fall under the ‘classic plate’ status. So now I know I have to factor $1000 plus a year in my budget for taxes on a car that I build myself.

[chmhasy]

Being a fellow CT resident who is in the planning stages of his build, this thread depresses me. I know we get killed in taxes in general but I always thought we’d fall under the ‘classic plate’ status. So now I know I have to factor $1000 plus a year in my budget for taxes on a car that I build myself.

If you are building a ffr roadster it will be registered as a 1965 roadster. Bad fish registered a few years back and the state did not know how to registered them so his got registered as a 2004 I think for year, bad fish can help me out here. that is why Middletown is screwing him. I registered mine last year and was tagged as a 1965, I also have classic plates.

The inspector will assign below on the Inspection report when you go for inspection. Just make sure the inspector makes the year a 1965 for the cobra roadster
Year = 1965
Make = Composite
Model = Cobra
Body Style = Roadster

[Badfish]

Correct, I’m titled as a 2004. But as I mentioned above, DMV will change me to 1965. However, they state that composite vehicles are not eligible for classic plates. I could retitle, then try to get the classic plates separately, but I can’t take the risk that it doesn’t happen, and get served another insane tax bill.

Last September I applied and got classic plates, but by December, DMV cancelled them, stating composite vehicles aren’t eligible. They sent me standard plates. I figured the snag was the title was still 2004. But now I’m told that even with a 65 title, no go on the classic plates.

I’m just tired. I’ve spent the last year appealing assessments, attempting to work with DMV, talking with lawyers, reaching out to the Middletown Common Council, the Mayor, CT Assessors Council. All with no success and a waste of my time and energy. I’m done.

[chmhasy]

Badfish, this is a good article. https://ride-ct.com/classic-vehicle-...ot-exceed-500/

You may want to see if middletown has the "Affidavit of Antique Motor Vehicle" form here is a link to a sample one https://www.stonington-ct.gov/sites/..._affidavit.pdf
but your town should have one.

I still don't understand if you need the classic plate or not.

[rich grsc]

Good lord, don't understand how that can be, to how you tolerate it. The tax on mine is $6.75 year.

[BadAsp427]

Good lord, don't understand how that can be, to how you tolerate it. The tax on mine is $6.75 year.

I thought mine was good at $16/yr...

[Badfish]

Thanks. Yeah, I think the article is correct, but I think those vehicle examples are 20 years or older. It's BS that anyone should have to justify it, it should kick in at 20 years automatically for production vehicles. It's also BS that kit cars are subject to these assessments at all. I'm paying property tax on my build labor and the new brake pads on put on it!!

SEMA needs to get involved, and Factory Five risks losing sales for folks who fear $30K in vehicle property taxes over a 20 year period.

My understanding is our vehicles are not considered antiques, defined as: "Antique, rare or special interest motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle twenty years old or older which is being preserved because of historic interest and which is not altered or modified from the original manufacturer's specifications.

So, not eligible for classic plates (per DMV), at least not until it's 20 years old (still waiting for DMV to confirm for composite vehicles).

For guys who have gotten classic plates, I can't tell you why or why not, or how long it will last.

Badfish, this is a good article. https://ride-ct.com/classic-vehicle-...ot-exceed-500/

You may want to see if middletown has the "Affidavit of Antique Motor Vehicle" form here is a link to a sample one https://www.stonington-ct.gov/sites/..._affidavit.pdf
but your town should have one.

I still don't understand if you need the classic plate or not.

[Badfish]

Hey guys. I've been emailing with CT DMV, thought it worth sharing this information regarding their position on classic plates for kit cars. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, folks get their classic plates pulled based on their comments below.

DMV: A replica/Composite vehicle will not qualify for an antique plate due to the State Statute. This passage can be found within Statutes: 14-16a, 14-103a.

“Antique, rare or special interest motor vehicle’ means a motor vehicle twenty years old or older which is being preserved because of historic interest and which is not altered or modified from the original manufacturer's specifications;”​

The above passage was sent to me from our Agency Legal Director​

Me: So a composite vehicle is never eligible, even after it’s 20 years old? It's my understanding that numerous composite vehicles have received (and currently have) classic plates in CT, vehicles that were originally inspected and titled in CT. Why is the statute not applied equally across these vehicles?

DMV: These vehicles should not have antique plates. Unfortunately, some of these have been registered that way in error. We have been working with CVSD and our legal department to correct this.

Me: So just to clarify, even after a kit car / composite vehicle is 20 year old, it is still not eligible for classic plates?

DMV: Per legal, the statute states that a replica, kit, or composite does not qualify.

[RFracer]

Hey guys. I've been emailing with CT DMV, thought it worth sharing this information regarding their position on classic plates for kit cars. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, folks get their classic plates pulled based on their comments below.

DMV: A replica/Composite vehicle will not qualify for an antique plate due to the State Statute. This passage can be found within Statutes: 14-16a, 14-103a.

“Antique, rare or special interest motor vehicle’ means a motor vehicle twenty years old or older which is being preserved because of historic interest and which is not altered or modified from the original manufacturer's specifications;”​

The above passage was sent to me from our Agency Legal Director​

Me: So a composite vehicle is never eligible, even after it’s 20 years old? It's my understanding that numerous composite vehicles have received (and currently have) classic plates in CT, vehicles that were originally inspected and titled in CT. Why is the statute not applied equally across these vehicles?

DMV: These vehicles should not have antique plates. Unfortunately, some of these have been registered that way in error. We have been working with CVSD and our legal department to correct this.

Me: So just to clarify, even after a kit car / composite vehicle is 20 year old, it is still not eligible for classic plates?

DMV: Per legal, the statute states that a replica, kit, or composite does not qualify.

This is really awful. I live next town north of you in Cromwell. Have been looking at a few complete or nearly complete cars. Really don’t need the burden of a $1,200 tax bill for a toy. As happened with you in Middletown our tax assessments have recently climbed significantly north of 30%. The recent shift in reduced state aid to towns in lieu of actual income and sales tax increases has created local substantial budget short falls which = raise revenue where they can. Sadly not much any of us can do.

[Badfish]

Yes, it's awful. Another forum member from Rocky Hill reached out to me on the same topic. Connecticut is killing the kit car hobby. We are in a minority and being taken advantage of.

Without either protection at the DMV level (classic plates) or some other sort of cap at the town / assessment level, we are exposed to whatever the tax assessor wants to price it at; and no support from the (1-person) appeal board. These people don't know a hubcap from a steering wheel.

Middletown finally posted the meeting minutes from the appeals. Not only did the board not approve my appeal, they wrote it up incorrectly. Makes you wonder how much time he took in considering the evidence I presented. Looks like they are declining other classic cars as well. Not sure the circumstances and why those folks do not already have classic plates, but appears to me those cars should be capped at $500 assessments. Instead, the appeals were declined.

I had no success reaching out to the Middletown Mayor or common council. Needs to be addressed at the state level. We need an advocate like Factory Five, ERA or SEMA to carry the flag here.

I had a 17-year old kit. $1500 per year in vehicle property tax is unsustainable, unjustified, unethical and board line criminal. My dream car is gone, hope you guys fair out better than me.

[Papa]

So, I see that CT assesses the taxable value at 70% of clean retail. What did the assessor determine as the value of your car? Did he/she look at actual retail sales or asking prices? Did they look at just FFR values or include other "Cobra" values like Superformance and Backdraft? Are other jurisdictions assessing values the same way or is this just affecting your area? I wouldn't surrender yet, and might consider hiring a lawyer to help you and potentially others with a class action suit. Just looking at your $1,700 number and assuming a $28,000 average retail value for FFR cars sold (based on recent eBay completed sales), your tax rate is ~6% per year. What do you pay for other cars?

[Badfish]

Hey Papa, all good questions.

The bill states Gross and Net assessments at $40,250. Not sure why both these values are the same, as (to your point) it should be 70% of the Gross assessment. If that's the case, they are assessing the car at $57,500! $40,250 * Middletown mill rate 35.80 yields the annual tax of $1,440.

As mentioned prior, feedback from the assessors was they used 'google and autotrader' since it's not in NADA. When I asked the assessors to provide the documentation used, neither assessor could produce it. Neither could confirm they only looked at Factory Five. Their excuse last year was they didn't know what kit it was, since the registration states 'Composite'. At appeals last year, and prior to this year's assessment, I provided my documentation, a powerpoint summary, also provided examples of similar builds (and not similar examples) for sale. Obviously didn't help, instead they raised the assessment in 2020. Seems like retaliation for appealing it in 2019.

Assessments and tax payer treatment seem to vary by town. I reached out to the CT assessor's council, but they couldn't provide much information and stated they are only a training council.

They know they have you by the b*lls since a lawyer is costly, and who's to say the assessor won't raise the assessment the following year? It's an annual assessment. A class action suit against the state might be a path though. We need a louder voice.

My 2015 daily driver is about $600 per year, and the 68 Stang is $17 since it has Classic plates.

So, no success with the assessors or appeal board, and no relief from DMV on classic plates (even after 20 years). Again, CT residents should be mindful and take this into account of this prior to purchasing a kit.

[rich grsc]

Sounds like you pied in someones cheerios to me.

[Badfish]

Maybe, maybe I dated his daughter at one time, maybe he saw me driving around town and is jealous of my car and good looks, maybe he has small hands, I don't know, but it's BS.

[Badfish]

Hey guys, not much to report, but I was pinged by a few folks, so thought I'd share the latest:


As it sits today, "composite vehicles are not, and are never eligible for classic plates, even after the chassis is 20 years old." In CT, 20 years is the threshold for vehicles to receive classic plates, and therefore the assessments are capped at $500.


My understanding is the proposed bill died with the transportation committee, despite my (and others) emails and reaching out. Not sure if it was even reviewed or discussed.


I did ping the senator who proposed the bill a few times last year, but didn't get any further responses. I recently engaged the Middletown state rep, and although he's been responsive, not sure where it will go. I think the state senators and reps may engage more this year, since it's an election year for many, so maybe we can get another bill or ruling change going.


I did meet with the CT car council several times, who have been helpful. As I mentioned above, they expressed concern on how the proposed bill was drafted by the senator, so they are taking the lead to engage DMV. They are planning to reach out to DMV to discuss how composite vehicles are registered, so hopefully that happens early this year.


Prior to sitting with the council, I did reach out to DMV directly again last year, received one response, but nothing since then.


I don't see there being any progress at the town assessor level, so likely hit or miss on the amount of financial abuse you will receive, depending on the CT town people live in. I did see in Middletown, CT another cobra owner being assessed at an astronomical amount. Looks like he got a 'reduction' on his 1998 cobra when he went to appeals. Looking at the meeting minutes, appears there has been a change in the board members, however the assessors remain the same. Therefore, you would continue to rely on the appeals process for any reduction. https://www.middletownct.gov/AgendaC..._09222021-6488


I think it's going to take some loud voices for a change at DMV. As mentioned, the CT car council is involved. I think we need the voice of the small businesses (ERA, Vintage, etc) in CT who could be harmed (loss of business) by DMV's current position.


I certainly would not be purchasing a kit today knowing that it will be assessed at $45K+, and therefore I would be paying $1500+ in annual property tax (with no end in sight) for a hobby car that I drive a few days a month, a few months a year. Not sure how others feel, but not worth the annual premium for a 'composite vehicle' that I built in my garage.

[Papa]

I was going to recommend that you reach out to a collector car council for CT if one existed. The Colorado Collector Car Council was instrumental in lobbying for the protection of our hobby in Colorado. Perhaps you could reach out to them and see if they may be able to offer recommendations to their CT counterparts.

[JDFinley]

Very sorry to read of your plight! I've seen this scenario play out a number of times over the years. My attention was first drawn to it decades ago with friends back home in Montana having to sell their properties and move away because of massive tax increases. Aircraft owners and boaters have similar fights. These discussions often erupt in arguments about 'tax evasion' vs 'tax avoidance' when they should really be about 'tax fairness' (in my opinion). Aircraft owners are rich. Boat owners are rich. Fancy car owners are rich. Anyway... if it were me, I would look carefully at getting the car registered somewhere else. I can imagine scenarios like an out of state child owning/registering it (and you storing it at your home) or even an LLC in another state. All of those are fraught with problems (so be careful) but when talking about $15,000 over ten years, maybe one of them makes some sense.

[chmhasy]

I think as a collective group we should first compile a list of how a composite gets registered, for example, a cobra replica/composite gets registered as a Year = 1965, Make = manufacturer of the replica, Model = Cobra, Body Style = roadster

If the replica / composite is registered as a model year 20 years or older the vehicle would be entitled to classic plates.

If a car was previously registered as something else. The owner should be able to have the registerition changed to match the replica / composite model of the car it replicates.

I think first we should talk to the CT car council to see what else we should include (which I think badfish has done), then get a willing CT representative to write up a bill for us. And here is the big part for us to get involved
All of us in the state need to contact by phone your local representative and continue to keep in touch with them on voting for the bill, heck we could all meet with our cars in Hartford while the representative are in session to show them our hobby, give them rides explain the good the hobby does for the community,

We really need to have a grassroots movement here.


BTW here is the list of the CT representative https://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/menu/hlist.asp

[Badfish]

Thanks Papa, certainly worth sharing with the council at the next meeting. Thank you.

I was going to recommend that you reach out to a collector car council for CT if one existed. The Colorado Collector Car Council was instrumental in lobbying for the protection of our hobby in Colorado. Perhaps you could reach out to them and see if they may be able to offer recommendations to their CT counterparts.

JD - 100% agree. As a matter of fact, when I researched history on classic plates for vintage cars, one of the noted statements was that folks with vintage cars are primarily 'middle class' (not rich!).

Very sorry to read of your plight! I've seen this scenario play out a number of times over the years. My attention was first drawn to it decades ago with friends back home in Montana having to sell their properties and move away because of massive tax increases. Aircraft owners and boaters have similar fights. These discussions often erupt in arguments about 'tax evasion' vs 'tax avoidance' when they should really be about 'tax fairness' (in my opinion). Aircraft owners are rich. Boat owners are rich. Fancy car owners are rich. Anyway... if it were me, I would look carefully at getting the car registered somewhere else. I can imagine scenarios like an out of state child owning/registering it (and you storing it at your home) or even an LLC in another state. All of those are fraught with problems (so be careful) but when talking about $15,000 over ten years, maybe one of them makes some sense.

Next council meeting is Feb, the more the merrier! I've joined the last few meetings, and it's a good crew. They suggested the same, on understanding the landscape of composite cars in CT.

100% agree that regardless of the vehicle being a 'composite', the 20 rule should apply. Having eligibility from Day 1 is a harder sell, but not unreasonable in my opinion considering the (assumed) overall low volume of these in the state.

I probably mentioned prior, but DMV is willing to revise my car from a 2004 composite cobra to a 1965, but still holds the position that composites are never eligible for classic plates.

I like the physically movement idea as well.

I think as a collective group we should first compile a list of how a composite gets registered, for example, a cobra replica/composite gets registered as a Year = 1965, Make = manufacturer of the replica, Model = Cobra, Body Style = roadster

If the replica / composite is registered as a model year 20 years or older the vehicle would be entitled to classic plates.

If a car was previously registered as something else. The owner should be able to have the registerition changed to match the replica / composite model of the car it replicates.

I think first we should talk to the CT car council to see what else we should include (which I think badfish has done), then get a willing CT representative to write up a bill for us. And here is the big part for us to get involved
All of us in the state need to contact by phone your local representative and continue to keep in touch with them on voting for the bill, heck we could all meet with our cars in Hartford while the representative are in session to show them our hobby, give them rides explain the good the hobby does for the community,

We really need to have a grassroots movement here.


BTW here is the list of the CT representative https://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/menu/hlist.asp

[Badfish]

Please see update in this thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...167#post483167