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Senior Member
Brake bleeding issue
I went to bleed my brakes today, I used my pressure bleeder left over from my BMW. It was able to screw onto the reservoir no problem. I got all the air out but the pedal still able to go to the floor. When I pushed the pedal the front brakes calibers worked fine. The rears did not work well(was still able to spin the rotors.
I noticed when I pressed the brake pedal that the rear master cylinder rod went all the way in while the front did not. It's almost like the fluid is not pressurizing. Has anyone had this issue?
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019
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Senior Member
Sounds like the rear brake circuit still has air. what makes you think it doesn't?
Steve
Gen 1 '33 Hot Rod #1104
347 with Holley Sniper & Hyperspark, TKO600, IRS, 245/40R18 & 315/30R18, DRL, Digital Guard Dog keyless Ignition
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Senior Member
When I had it pressurized with the pressure bleeder it only had fluid coming out but I can bleed them again and see. The pedal just never got hard.
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019
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Seasoned Citizen
If you are using the Wilwood dual M/C pedal assembly with the bias adjustment, make sure that you have set the gap correctly on the balance bar. This is probably not in your FFR manual but is supplied with the Wilwood pedal assembly and can be obtained from Wilwood. This is import as it affects safety. Also, ensure you have adjusted the piston rods so that you get full travel before the pedal hits the floor. And, the piston must fully retract when you release the pedal.
Next is the caliper orientation. The bleeder must be the highest point for all the air to escape. Depending on how your calipers are mounted you may have to unbolt them and rotate them on the rotor until they are at the highest point. This would require either a helper to hold the caliper in this position or safety wire them so they don't get bumped and fall off the rotor.
Personally, I prefer to vacuum bleed brakes and use solo bleeder valves to make it a one-man operation. Solo bleeders have a check valve so that air cannot be drawn back into the caliper. Vacuum bleeding is the same basic principle as pressure bleeding but uses atmospheric pressure to force the fluid out the bleeder valve, leaving the reservoir open to check fluid level. Pull a vacuum and watch the fluid level drop and use the bleeder valve to adjust the flow rate so you can keep up with topping off the reservoir.
Many will tell you to bench bleed the M/Cs -- I have yet to find this necessary using my method but whatever method you prefer is OK if it works.
Last edited by NAZ; 07-30-2019 at 09:12 PM.
Dart Little M 406" SBC 800 HP N/A & 1,100 HP on nitrous, 2-spd Powerglide with trans brake, 6,000 RPM stall converter, narrowed Moser 88 3.90:1 spool with 35-spline gun-drilled axles & Torino bearings, custom parallel four-link, custom tube chassis & roll cage NHRA certified for 8.5-sec (only two FFR Hot Rods have this cert).
33 Hot Rod Super Pro Drag Racer Build:
33 HR NHRA Cert Roll Cage Build
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Senior Member
It may also be a bad master cylinder. I had that problem with one of mine. I believe the symptom I had was that with the reservoir full when I stepped on the pedal the level went up.
Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum
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RBBJ, did you put any fluid in the MC before you put the caps on? I used my pressure bleeder (probably same as you have, BAVAuto) as well as a vacuum at the calipers.
'33 Hotrod, #1047 Gen 1, delivered on 2/27/18, go cart on 9/24/18.
LS3 w/Gearstar Level 3 4L65e Tranny, Yank converter, Lokar shifter, Electric PS, Vintage AC/Heat/Def, 8.8" 3.55
TorqThrust II Wheels w/Toyo Proxy T1 Sport Tires, F 235/45ZR17 R 295/35ZR18
Garage Built, Driveway Painted.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
JimLev
RBBJ, did you put any fluid in the MC before you put the caps on? I used my pressure bleeder (probably same as you have, BAVAuto) as well as a vacuum at the calipers.
Jim I bench bled on the car prior to pressure bleeding it.Yes I did use my bleeder from BavAuto. Lol
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019
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Originally Posted by
Packer fan
It may also be a bad master cylinder. I had that problem with one of mine. I believe the symptom I had was that with the reservoir full when I stepped on the pedal the level went up.
For what it's worth, I also tremendous problems getting my rear brakes firm. I tried gravity bleeding, a Mityvac tool, and a Phoenix Systems reverse bleeder, and probably put a half gallon of fluid through the system with no success. I eventually took off the Wilwood master, completely disassembled it and cleared all the orifices. As far as I could tell, there was some manufacturing debris in an orifice or passage that was preventing the bore from completely refilling with fluid after each pedal stroke. It firmed up quickly after reinstallation. Hope this helps and good luck.
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Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes
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Senior Member
I agree with NAZ. I have the six piston Wilwood's front and single piston Cobra's rear. I used a relatively inexpensive vacuum bleeder from Amazon that has a bottle that keeps the reservoir full, so you don't have to keep checking. I was through in about thirty minutes and the pedal is firm.
33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.
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Senior Member
Thank you Jacob I'll look into that.
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019
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Senior Member
How high is everyone mounting their reservoirs? My m/c are not being replenished by gravity feed.
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019
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Seasoned Citizen
Can't use mine as an example, I mounted my M/Cs 3" lower than FFR made brackets for. But I suggest that if you ever plan to use a hood then measure the clearance and place your reservoirs as high as you can.
Dart Little M 406" SBC 800 HP N/A & 1,100 HP on nitrous, 2-spd Powerglide with trans brake, 6,000 RPM stall converter, narrowed Moser 88 3.90:1 spool with 35-spline gun-drilled axles & Torino bearings, custom parallel four-link, custom tube chassis & roll cage NHRA certified for 8.5-sec (only two FFR Hot Rods have this cert).
33 Hot Rod Super Pro Drag Racer Build:
33 HR NHRA Cert Roll Cage Build
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Senior Member
I'm not using the hood but I wanted them as high as possible.IMG_0123.JPG I think this where the hood pin usually land.
33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.
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Senior Member
Thanks guys. I think I'm going to mount it about where they did on the model at FFR.
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019
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Senior Member
I ended up ordering a new dual reservoir from speedway motors.
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019
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Senior Member
I just noticed today that I have plenty of fluid flow when bleeding the rears but seams like no pressure, the pistons dont even move on both rears. The calipers are brand new, came in a disc brake upgrade for the rears from The Right Stuff. I'm thinking a m/c issue.
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019
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Are you expecting the the pistons to show movement while you have the bleeder open?
They need to be closed in order for them to move.
'33 Hotrod, #1047 Gen 1, delivered on 2/27/18, go cart on 9/24/18.
LS3 w/Gearstar Level 3 4L65e Tranny, Yank converter, Lokar shifter, Electric PS, Vintage AC/Heat/Def, 8.8" 3.55
TorqThrust II Wheels w/Toyo Proxy T1 Sport Tires, F 235/45ZR17 R 295/35ZR18
Garage Built, Driveway Painted.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
JimLev
Are you expecting the the pistons to show movement while you have the bleeder open?
They need to be closed in order for them to move.
After bleeding them before I've pumped the brakes and the fronts lock up but the rears dont. You can still wiggle the pads while they pressed.
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019
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Seasoned Citizen
Do you have the Wilwood dual M/C & balance bar pedal assembly?
Dart Little M 406" SBC 800 HP N/A & 1,100 HP on nitrous, 2-spd Powerglide with trans brake, 6,000 RPM stall converter, narrowed Moser 88 3.90:1 spool with 35-spline gun-drilled axles & Torino bearings, custom parallel four-link, custom tube chassis & roll cage NHRA certified for 8.5-sec (only two FFR Hot Rods have this cert).
33 Hot Rod Super Pro Drag Racer Build:
33 HR NHRA Cert Roll Cage Build
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Senior Member
Yes I have the Wilwood dual m/c's. I'm always wondering why they have you cut 5/8" off each threaded rod and in the manual it says to make sure the 90* is pointing up when tight but in pictures of doing the hard lines they point to the left. Mine are to the left so the lines can go that way.
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019
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Seasoned Citizen
Did you set the gap between the large clevis washers and the side of the pedal to .020"-.025" like directed in the Wilwood set-up instructions? If not, you may be loosing some stroke.
figure4.gif
Dart Little M 406" SBC 800 HP N/A & 1,100 HP on nitrous, 2-spd Powerglide with trans brake, 6,000 RPM stall converter, narrowed Moser 88 3.90:1 spool with 35-spline gun-drilled axles & Torino bearings, custom parallel four-link, custom tube chassis & roll cage NHRA certified for 8.5-sec (only two FFR Hot Rods have this cert).
33 Hot Rod Super Pro Drag Racer Build:
33 HR NHRA Cert Roll Cage Build
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Senior Member
I'm going to check it again tonight. I think I set it for. 20 for each side, so that would be like. 40+ total.
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019
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Senior Member
My new 5/8" bore m/c comes in today.
33 Hot Rod w/ deluxe 32 nose
350 SBC and 700r4 automatic, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears
Order date:4/25/19, Deliver date 6/10/19
First run 10/6/2019, Go cart 11/3/2019