New Option for Gen 3 Coupe Headers and Sidepipes

[edwardb]

I posted this in my build thread (link in sig line below) but thought it was important enough to put up a new thread. This is mostly from my build thread:

Most know the stock Factory Five sidepipes are loud, a little on the rough side (at least mine were), and unfinished. They can be nicely finished (for $$$) but still are loud. I considered a couple of options, but really wanted to stay with the dual pipe traditional look of the Daytona Coupe. Due to the uncertainty, I purposely didn’t order headers with my kit and figured I would address the header/sidepipe situation later. So fast forward some months into my build, and I was pleasantly surprised that Georgie from Gas-N contacted me and asked if I would work with him to develop a header/sidepipe setup for the Gen 3 Coupe. Would I? You bet. I’ve used Gas-N side pipes on each of my Roadster builds and they’re perfect. Look great, sound great, and last. The prospect of that same quality on my Coupe build was something I didn’t have to think about very long.

There have been a number of steps to the process, and I won’t go through all of them. Georgie developed a twin pipe design and I received the prototypes several weeks ago. Note these are stainless, just like the Roadster pipes. But for this stage, not polished. Then we used “Frankenstein headers” to determine the proper configuration of the headers with the side pipes in their intended location. Once locked down, those were sent back to Georgie to use as patterns for the prototype headers. Couple of weeks later, these arrived.



Now installed.









Note these are the first prototypes. Now that they been checked out, Georgie will make a new pair with his legendary stainless steel polished finish. No huge rush because these are fully functional. Did my first drives today with them. Note I don’t have the side hangars on yet, so there’s a little movement of the pipes that will be reduced when those are added. Check out the videos. They're short. But really happened and you get the idea.

https://youtu.be/24kZChAlKeI

https://youtu.be/boH-3-BD52g

https://youtu.be/QCdUdj6n3eM

https://youtu.be/mFHHqadaREs

If interested, you can check with Georgie on price and availability of this new option for the Gen 3 Coupe with a Coyote like this one. Maybe other engines too but check with him.

[Logan]

Awesome! They look and sound great! Are you going to get a fully-polished "Production" set to replace your raw-stainless "Prototype" set?

How different are those headers to the FFR provided ones, made by GP Headers? Perhaps they're a shorter length, to accommodate the more complete bend in the sidepipes, which should give a less restrictive flow path than the FFR sidepipes.

I really like the twin pipe look on the Daytona best, with the 6" oval coming in a close second... or maybe a tie.

Congrats on your first drive!!!

[edwardb]

Awesome! They look and sound great! Are you going to get a fully-polished "Production" set to replace your raw-stainless "Prototype" set?

How different are those headers to the FFR provided ones, made by GP Headers? Perhaps they're a shorter length, to accommodate the more complete bend in the sidepipes, which should give a less restrictive flow path than the FFR sidepipes.

I really like the twin pipe look on the Daytona best, with the 6" oval coming in a close second... or maybe a tie.

Congrats on your first drive!!!

Thanks. Yes, the prototypes shown here are not polished. They will be replaced with another set that are fully polished. Mentioned this a couple times in my post. The stock Factory Five Gen 3 Coupe sidepipes are designed to work with the SS headers they sell also for the Roadster, as you mentioned. While not a huge difference, these new headers are different and would not be interchangeable as the Factory Five stock setup. Mainly due to the revised transition, as you said.

[GoDadGo]

As you'd expect I'm still lurking around watching your latest Masterpiece Come To Life!

I'm thinking when I turn 60 I might just take the Daytona plunge.

Thanks for this build thread & your other too.

Okay, maybe 63.

[Olli]

Those look and sound fantastic. I have Gas n side pipes on my Mark IV and really like them. I would buy a system if I were to build a Gen 3 Coupe.

Olli

[q4stix]

Any details or pictures of the sidepipe transition and mating flange? I think that's one of my biggest concerns if I don't fab my own

[Logan]

Also interested in a photo of the inlet to the sidepipes, at the mating flange. There’s pictures of the FFR sidepipes taken from this angle and it really shows how much (or rather how little) open area there is at the joint of the two pipes. Especially since the square mounting flange is shaped and sized the way it is.

Basically, how much improvement to exhaust flow do these ones have.

[edwardb]

I don't have any additional pictures other than what's posted. It's all together and not taking it apart. Plus this is Gas-N's design and not going to post anything without Georgie's approval. The Gas-N design does have a longer and more gradual turn than the Factory Five pipes that were supplied with my kit. You can see the end of the headers in the first picture I posted. The four pipes go into one chamber with the O2 sensor and from there into the two pipes at the flanges. Does this flow better than the Factory Five design received with my kit? Appears that it would, but I have no data to back it up. Frankly, I'm not too worried about it. The Gen 3 Coyote will be at or near 500 HP (multiple tests and videos on-line seem to confirm this) and for my 99% street driving, will rarely if ever require anywhere near that much power. I know that's not much of an answer and I apologize for that. If you're interested, I'd suggest you contact Georgie directly with your questions.

I don't want to downplay the power aspect, because I agree that's important. But for me, sound was also a concern and the Factory Five pipes with my kit are extremely loud. "NASCAR loud" as some have said. The limited testing I've done already confirms the Gas-N's are quieter. Or at the very least a mellower less harsh sound. The Roadster pipes are similar in that regard. Another area of important was appearance. The polished SS versions I'll be getting of these are better than whatever I could have done with my stock, unfinished, steel Factory Five sidepipes.

[Straversi]

Congratulations to you and Georgie at Gas-N. I've always thought the twin pipe design was an important design element of the Daytona. Glad you were able to come up with a version worthy of the rest of the car. Well done.

-Steve

[Jimtmich]

I agree, the twin pipes are important and beautiful.

How is the volume compared to #8674?

[nskaats]

I'm interested in seeing some testing on these. My FFR pipes aren't worthy of the car in my opinion. General build quality was pretty questionable and I've seen some testing to verify my theory that they rob power as well. So I planned to fab some of my own. I would definitely consider buying some already made if they're built like these. Quieter is a bit of a bonus as some of the events I plan to run have noise limits.

If someone local to the Cincinnati area wants to test them or someone else is willing to make the trip, I'll gladly offer up a day on my dyno.

[edwardb]

I agree, the twin pipes are important and beautiful.

How is the volume compared to #8674?

Nothing scientific. I haven't actually tried to measure anything. But to my ear the Coupe as now set up is somewhat louder than #8674. Not terrible, but noticeable. Had a visitor today that noticed it too. Don't think it's an even comparison though. The Gen 3 Coyote definitely has more of a "bite" than the Gen 2. Different heads, different cams, different intake, higher compression ratio, whatever the reason it has a somewhat harsher sound than the Gen 2 Coyote. My first starts with the Coupe build and the Gen 3 Coyote were with Gas-N headers and Gas-N Roadster side pipes. Same thing as on #8674. I immediately noted the difference, even though both had the same exhaust setup.

[Lou95gts]

The problem I found is that on the 302/351w FFR headers, they don’t have a collector. Just 4 header pipes into the half covered 4 leaf side pipe. Not an issue for Coyote as the headers have a collector. These pipes won’t solve the issue for 302/351w engines.

[edwardb]

The problem I found is that on the 302/351w FFR headers, they don’t have a collector. Just 4 header pipes into the half covered 4 leaf side pipe. Not an issue for Coyote as the headers have a collector. These pipes won’t solve the issue for 302/351w engines.

What’s shown here is a sidepipe PLUS header solution. These are’t stock Coyote headers. I’m sure Georgie could provide a solution for non-Coyote builds.

[Lou95gts]

They certainly look a lot like these:
http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/1626...nto-4-headers/

[edwardb]

They certainly look a lot like these:
http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/1626...nto-4-headers/

Agreed, look similar. But that’s not what’s described or pictured here and wouldn’t exactly fit. These headers were custom fit to the Gen 3 Coupe and the pictured sidepipes.

[Georgie]

I have been working on the 302/351 headers for the Gen 2 and Gen 3 coupe. Best thing you can do is call me so we can chat in more detail. 781-929-2154 you can text me too at that number.

All the very best to you and your family,
Georgie
GASN Performance

[edwardb]

Just to follow up on this thread, here are the finished polished pipes received some weeks ago:



Not the best pictures yet since the build is still in the garage for the winter and usually on the lift. But looks like this right now:

[Bob-STL]

Does this flow better than the Factory Five design received with my kit? Appears that it would, but I have no data to back it up. Frankly, I'm not too worried about it. The Gen 3 Coyote will be at or near 500 HP (multiple tests and videos on-line seem to confirm this) and for my 99% street driving, will rarely if ever require anywhere near that much power. I know that's not much of an answer and I apologize for that. If you're interested, I'd suggest you contact Georgie directly with your questions.

I don't want to downplay the power aspect, because I agree that's important. But for me, sound was also a concern and the Factory Five pipes with my kit are extremely loud. "NASCAR loud" as some have said. The limited testing I've done already confirms the Gas-N's are quieter. Or at the very least a mellower less harsh sound. The Roadster pipes are similar in that regard. Another area of important was appearance. The polished SS versions I'll be getting of these are better than whatever I could have done with my stock, unfinished, steel Factory Five sidepipes.

I would really like to see some data on both the power aspect AND the noise aspect. These are significant issues.

Bob

[edwardb]

I would really like to see some data on both the power aspect AND the noise aspect. These are significant issues.

Bob

Understand, but sorry, can't help. I don't have any plans to dyno mine and don't have anything to compare it to anyway. Significant? Perhaps to some. Not me for the reasons I explained. Whatever power reduction there might be, if any, I would expect to be a small percentage and for my intended use, just not actionable. Maybe someone else will want to do some testing.

[nskaats]

If someone near the Cincinnati area would like to do some side pipe testing I'm happy to supply the dyno.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Both Dougherty and Gordon claim that the factory pipes can choke as much as 50 horsepower. Take a look at this photo from Peter Fritsche showing the clunky 4 into 2 transition at the header to pipe interface then tell me whether you think it's free flowing or not...



Jeff

[Logan]

I’ve seen all the claims about how much power the stock FFR pipes rob from the engine. It would be really REALLY nice to be able to quantify that with data. Some say 50hp, some say 70-75hp...

Someone with a coupe and the FFR sidepipes should take Nick Skaats up on his offer. Dyno the car with the sidepipes installed, then just remove them and make a run on the headers. Low end torque will suffer running on open headers but peak horsepower figures can be compared, which is what we’re concerned about.

[rdcyclist]

I don't have a dog in this fight yet, but I'm hoping to in the next year or so. I do have some experience in the road race/hot rodding realm and know this: a single 3 inch pipe will flow better than two 2 inch pipes. I believe for the best compromise between power and loudness, an exhaust system with properly sized reverse flow mufflers on each bank and a cross-over pipe will out perform the two glasspacks on the FFR system. Now packaging big *** (that's a technical term) reverse flow mufflers in the rocker panels is likely impossible but it would be interesting to cobble together a set of side mufflers for dyno testing.

The headers most of the Type 65's are running have, IMHO, primaries that are too short. Lengthening the primaries to make the turn at the rocker with the collector outside the body will probably give much better overall performance. Making that quiet enough for street driving (or even track days) would be very challenging.

All that said, the dual pipe on each side is period correct for the car AND even with the compromised exhaust system most of the Type 65's being built today have upwards of 400 horsies in a 2800 pound package. Not much on the road will out perform one.

[Mark Dougherty]

wow Edward
those are stunning.
Georgie does great work.