Engine problem

[phileas_fogg]

On my last two drives, my engine (Ford 302 with Holley Terminator fuel injection) has died. Both times I've been able to immediately start it up again.

The first time, it died after I had driven 1 1/4 mile from the house. I was doing ~25 mpg, in 2nd gear at ~2200 rpm. The second time, it died after driving ~1/10 mile from the house. Again, I was doing ~25 mpg, in 2nd gear at ~2200 rpm. After coming to a complete stop I was able to immediately start the car, and continued both drives without incident - not so much as a stumble.

When it dies, the car feels like it's being starved for fuel. All of a sudden, the engine bogs & rpm's drop. Pushing in the clutch has no effect, nor does giving it more throttle.

The car only has 2200 miles on it. I don't think it's the TFI module overheating because I can immediately restart.

At my last fill-up, I was low on gas & had to add gas while the fuel truck was filling the underground tank. Could I have a piece of sediment that temporarily clogs the fuel pump pickup?


John

[stacked33]

On my last two drives, my engine (Ford 302 with Holley Terminator fuel injection) has died. Both times I've been able to immediately start it up again.

The first time, it died after I had driven 1 1/4 mile from the house. I was doing ~25 mpg, in 2nd gear at ~2200 rpm. The second time, it died after driving ~1/10 mile from the house. Again, I was doing ~25 mpg, in 2nd gear at ~2200 rpm. After coming to a complete stop I was able to immediately start the car, and continued both drives without incident - not so much as a stumble.

When it dies, the car feels like it's being starved for fuel. All of a sudden, the engine bogs & rpm's drop. Pushing in the clutch has no effect, nor does giving it more throttle.

The car only has 2200 miles on it. I don't think it's the TFI module overheating because I can immediately restart.

At my last fill-up, I was low on gas & had to add gas while the fuel truck was filling the underground tank. Could I have a piece of sediment that temporarily clogs the fuel pump pickup?


John

You might find more help for this on the Holley EFI forum https://forums.holley.com/forumdispl...r-Stealth-EFI&.
They will probably suggest you do a datalog which will help diagnose the problem.

[bobl]

I got your PM. I'll reply here so others might see it also. What you are describing sure sounds like an Ignition/electrical issue. Fuel system problems don't just come and go like that. I run the Holley HP efi with a TFI ignition. I've already had 2 TFI modules fail. I was able to capture one on a data log and could see where It was losing sync. I made a remote mount and have not had any further issues in 7000 miles. Knowing what I know now I would definitely have gone a different route for the distributor. If yours has been running fine up to this point I would not suspect any compatibility issue, just a component failure. I would still suspect the TFI module. A lot, if not all are now made in China so you don't really know what you are getting with a new one. A data log will only be useful if the problem happens while it's active. In my case I was able to recreate the problem. The Holley dual sync would be how I would go if doing it again.

[phileas_fogg]

After half a dozen flawless rides covering some 100 miles, I was going to chalk up my engine problem to the last bit of learning my self-tuning EFI system was doing. But on a ride last week, the car wouldn't start at all after an intermediate stop. And I was quite a ways from home.

Still thinking I have a dirty fuel fouling the fuel pump problem, I tried cycling my push button start through ACC, then RUN, then START to see if I could hear the fuel pump run. In my haste I was too quick on the push button and managed to get its controller to time out. It took a while for me to realize what I had done, and for a brief time I was convinced a clog had finally killed the fuel pump. But when I reset the push button start controller and took my time cycling through the modes, I could hear that in fact, the fuel pump was not running. Wondering if perhaps the push button start controller timeout had messed up the ECU, I disconnected the battery and let it sit for a while. When I reconnected the battery, the fuel pump ran for ~5 seconds at run and then cut off - just like it was supposed to. When I tried to start the car it fired right up immediately and I was able to get home.

Preliminary checks of the electrical system revealed nothing informative; the fuse was good, the relay was good, and the ECU didn't show any anomalous behavior. So I took my daughter to a birthday party in Manassas at a house at the end of at least a mile of dirt road (which was a great vibration test), and the car runs perfectly. However, when we jump in the car to go home, the fuel pump doesn't come on at RUN and the car won't start. This time, I did not get lucky; I had to call the tow truck.

So now I've got two problems: on two of the past dozen rides, the engine has died within 5 minutes of starting for now apparent reason, and on two rides the car just would not start. Or maybe I've only got one: an intermittent electrical problem in the fuel pump circuit.


John

[phileas_fogg]

After the two truck debacle, I spent today performing fault isolation.

I dropped the fuel tank, and measured the voltage at the pump connector at RUN. Sure enough, I only had 10.8 volts. Next, I checked what the EFI output; that was 12.5 volts. Now I'm getting somewhere.

I checked the resistance from the fuel connector ground to one of the screws holding my brake line in place; it was ~ 7 milli Ohms. From that I concluded that the ground portion of the fuel pump circuit is good.

I checked the resistance from the connector between the EFI output and the fuel tank; it was 1.7 Mega Ohms. Definitely a problem here; so I checked the resistance between the Ron Francis rear harness connector to the fuel tank (the upstream half of that circuit): ~5 milli Ohms. I checked the resistance between the EFI output and the rear harness connector(the downstream half of that circuit): ~2 milli Ohms. Wait; how can that be? I check the resistance between the EFI output and the fuel tank again; now it's ~5 milli Ohms. Huh? I reconnect everything and measure the voltage at the pump connector at RUN. Now it's right at 12.5 volts.

So it appears reseating the two connectors fixed - at least temporarily - my fuel pump not coming on problem. And if one (or both) of those connectors is bad, that would explain my engine stopping within 5 minutes of start problem.

I think my next step is to just keep driving the car, and if I get a recurrence, to reseat one of the connectors. If that works, then I'll replace the connection and see if that cures things.

Thoughts?


John

P.S. Since I had the tank down, I collected a sample of the fuel. It looks clear as it should; no obvious debris. So for now I'm going to discount my original theory of stirred up sludge from the tanker truck.

P.P.S. Thanks much to everyone who suggested I look beyond dirty fuel!

[Fixit]

Take a look here and see if this sounds familiar...

[CraigS]

I 'think' I remember there is a fuel pump relay in the circuit. If so, any chance it has corroded contacts? I know it's dang new to be faulty but....Some relays you can pry the plastic box cover off of w/o ruining it to look at the contacts.