Terry in Las Vegas Build - 15,000 miles, standard ratio R-P installed.

[Dave Tabor]

[QUOTE He also tells me that these rocker arms are not new from a package, but are new take offs from another motor. I consider my options and I decide to order 16 new Harland Sharp roller rockers. The pushrod still looked great and rolled smooth on glass.[/QUOTE]

What's up with that? But new nonetheless?

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17
15,000 miles

[egchewy79]

I tried to do the oil pan gasket on Sat and gave up. I spent about 2 hours on my back under the car. I have to shimmy my super sexy curvy body between the quickjacks, work in an uncomfortable position with a flat head screwdriver, razor blade, carb cleaner, and a pick trying to get the RTV and residue off. The four little indentations are pure evil. Then when your arms are trembling with exhaustion a drip of oil hits your right between the eyes. It is really special. I bought the caulk tube type of RTV this time since I almost ran out of RTV the last time I tried this endeavor. With my shaky hands and a too long caulk tube which included the length of the shaft of the spring loaded depressor making the whole thing 23" long on a car that is only 20" in the air. I had a flashlight in my mouth a seal in my hand, the the tube of RTV ready to go. Of course now is when I realized that I poked a hole too small in the end of the RTV tube. The strength of of the incredible hulk was needed to squeeze the caulk gun and get a reasonable amount of RTV to dispense. Do I get up and make a bigger hole? Of course not, I got this! It's a lot of work to get into this position. The damn seal kept popping out of the groove. I put too much RTV in the groove. I manage to grab the only paper towel within arms reach and try to clean off excess RTV. Great, now I have RTV all over the caulk gun and my gloved hands. Crap, now a glove tore. Double crap, I just banged my elbow for the 7th time on the exposed bolt end that holds my quickjack together. That really hurt. Deep breath. Let me try again. Nope. Crap, must rest arms. Another drip!

I'm done with this for the day. I squeeze out from between the quickjacks, get up, and all of my tools of cleaning are lying in a filthy state where I dropped them after admitting defeat. I have to try this again when I'm fresh in both mental state and strength. My elbows hurt. I somehow have black RTV in my chest hair which is really strange since I'm wearing a shirt. It's like when you open up a jar of anti-seize and somehow it gets into your hair. It is unexplainable, but it happens.

I went inside, cleaned up, and thought about kicking the cat. Instead I opened a beer, turned up the gain on my 50w bass amp, and practiced the sweet perfection of Roger Waters' bass line of Money by Pink Floyd while pissing off the neighbors.

Put some studs in the corners or some disposable plastic ones to hold the gasket up while you’re on your back

[TMartinLVNV]

[QUOTE He also tells me that these rocker arms are not new from a package, but are new take offs from another motor. I consider my options and I decide to order 16 new Harland Sharp roller rockers. The pushrod still looked great and rolled smooth on glass.

What's up with that? But new nonetheless?

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17
15,000 miles[/QUOTE]

I was surprised he said that as well. I just let it go.

[Namrups]

I tried to do the oil pan gasket on Sat and gave up. I spent about 2 hours on my back under the car. I have to shimmy my super sexy curvy body between the quickjacks, work in an uncomfortable position with a flat head screwdriver, razor blade, carb cleaner, and a pick trying to get the RTV and residue off. The four little indentations are pure evil. Then when your arms are trembling with exhaustion a drip of oil hits your right between the eyes. It is really special. I bought the caulk tube type of RTV this time since I almost ran out of RTV the last time I tried this endeavor. With my shaky hands and a too long caulk tube which included the length of the shaft of the spring loaded depressor making the whole thing 23" long on a car that is only 20" in the air. I had a flashlight in my mouth a seal in my hand, the the tube of RTV ready to go. Of course now is when I realized that I poked a hole too small in the end of the RTV tube. The strength of of the incredible hulk was needed to squeeze the caulk gun and get a reasonable amount of RTV to dispense. Do I get up and make a bigger hole? Of course not, I got this! It's a lot of work to get into this position. The damn seal kept popping out of the groove. I put too much RTV in the groove. I manage to grab the only paper towel within arms reach and try to clean off excess RTV. Great, now I have RTV all over the caulk gun and my gloved hands. Crap, now a glove tore. Double crap, I just banged my elbow for the 7th time on the exposed bolt end that holds my quickjack together. That really hurt. Deep breath. Let me try again. Nope. Crap, must rest arms. Another drip!

I'm done with this for the day. I squeeze out from between the quickjacks, get up, and all of my tools of cleaning are lying in a filthy state where I dropped them after admitting defeat. I have to try this again when I'm fresh in both mental state and strength. My elbows hurt. I somehow have black RTV in my chest hair which is really strange since I'm wearing a shirt. It's like when you open up a jar of anti-seize and somehow it gets into your hair. It is unexplainable, but it happens.

I went inside, cleaned up, and thought about kicking the cat. Instead I opened a beer, turned up the gain on my 50w bass amp, and practiced the sweet perfection of Roger Waters' bass line of Money by Pink Floyd while pissing off the neighbors.

And you will get up tomorrow and gladly do it all over again!! That is what we do and when we are finished we are proud of what we have done!

[buttsjim]

I tried to do the oil pan gasket on Sat and gave up. I spent about 2 hours on my back under the car. I have to shimmy my super sexy curvy body between the quickjacks, work in an uncomfortable position with a flat head screwdriver, razor blade, carb cleaner, and a pick trying to get the RTV and residue off. The four little indentations are pure evil. Then when your arms are trembling with exhaustion a drip of oil hits your right between the eyes. It is really special. I bought the caulk tube type of RTV this time since I almost ran out of RTV the last time I tried this endeavor. With my shaky hands and a too long caulk tube which included the length of the shaft of the spring loaded depressor making the whole thing 23" long on a car that is only 20" in the air. I had a flashlight in my mouth a seal in my hand, the the tube of RTV ready to go. Of course now is when I realized that I poked a hole too small in the end of the RTV tube. The strength of of the incredible hulk was needed to squeeze the caulk gun and get a reasonable amount of RTV to dispense. Do I get up and make a bigger hole? Of course not, I got this! It's a lot of work to get into this position. The damn seal kept popping out of the groove. I put too much RTV in the groove. I manage to grab the only paper towel within arms reach and try to clean off excess RTV. Great, now I have RTV all over the caulk gun and my gloved hands. Crap, now a glove tore. Double crap, I just banged my elbow for the 7th time on the exposed bolt end that holds my quickjack together. That really hurt. Deep breath. Let me try again. Nope. Crap, must rest arms. Another drip!

I'm done with this for the day. I squeeze out from between the quickjacks, get up, and all of my tools of cleaning are lying in a filthy state where I dropped them after admitting defeat. I have to try this again when I'm fresh in both mental state and strength. My elbows hurt. I somehow have black RTV in my chest hair which is really strange since I'm wearing a shirt. It's like when you open up a jar of anti-seize and somehow it gets into your hair. It is unexplainable, but it happens.

I went inside, cleaned up, and thought about kicking the cat. Instead I opened a beer, turned up the gain on my 50w bass amp, and practiced the sweet perfection of Roger Waters' bass line of Money by Pink Floyd while pissing off the neighbors.

Well, at least you've kept your sense of humor.

[sread]

Nobody else has addressed what might have caused the failure so I will put in my 2 cents worth. While it isn't that uncommon for cast roller rockers to break (which is what yours appear to be) I would have guessed that the lifter came apart first. I see bobl mentions that he believes the rocker arm failed first. I don't know and he probably has more experience with this type of stuff than me. What I do know is that any slack or excessive clearance that develops in the valve train will very quickly break stuff. Apart from weak or failed springs, valve float, or repeatedly banging the engine into the rev limiter is a sure way to introduce slack into the valve train. I don't know what your cam specs are or what your rev limiter is set at, but you might want to consider refining your driving technique. I realize that in certain racing situations hitting the limiter is unavoidable, but unless you enjoy doing this type of thing regularly, you probably should limit the max rpm you are hitting.

[Railroad]

Someone, maybe Crane, used to make hyd high rev lifters, probably flat tappet, that had a flat snap ring instead of a round wire clip holding the internals of the lifter together. Their sales pitch was the wire ring could let go, and their blue steel flat snap ring would endure shock of the internal piston hammering on the snap ring.
It might be worth the time to see if anyone has maintained this approach in their roller lifter applications.
I think running too little lifter preload could induce this type of failure.

[bobl]

I had an engine in the shop just last month that a rocker lock nut had backed off. The lifter came apart just like Terry's, nothing else failed. I believe the slack in the valve train causes the retaining clip to pop out. Once the slack gets great enough the lifter internals pop out, since they are spring loaded and oil pressure fed.

[GTBradley]

Poor kitty!

[Hoooper]

Side affect of aluminum rockers unfortunately. Theyre almost always OK, but you do see a lot of failures in aluminum roller rockers if you look around online and almost always OK isnt exactly what you are looking for in a street engine. Aluminum fatigues and eventually breaks, no matter what the load is. The higher the loading the more quickly it happens, so an engine built with a bigger cam or higher spring pressures will fatigue them much more quickly than an engine with about stock numbers. Obviously they still shouldnt blow up that quickly unless your lift or spring pressure is right at the limit of what the manufacturer "allows" for those lifters and there was probably a defect in that rocker but aluminum rockers will always eventually fail, which is why you dont see aluminum rocker arms on any OEM street engines. Hopefully you dont have any issues with this new set. If you do, consider investing in a set of crower or jesel steel roller rockers that will last you forever.

[jwd]

Fel-pro makes a moulded one piece oil pan gasket- requires no sealant,hate that stuff never have a leak and can use again.

[hineas]

What an absolute miserable mess...

Good luck with the seal. I can't wait for your car to be back in action so we can go out again next driving season!!!

[egchewy79]

Fel-pro makes a moulded one piece oil pan gasket- requires no sealant,hate that stuff never have a leak and can use again.

put a dab of RTV at the curved "corners" of the one piece gasket if you do use it.

[BadAsp427]

So sorry to hear about you troubles. Looks like you got it taken care of and most likely learned a few things along the way. You mentioned you bought a crate engine. Was it not under warranty?

[johnnybgoode]

If there is any way you can get access to a lift it will make the pan install so much easier. If not try to get the car as high up as you can. It also helps to loosen the trany bolts and pry the trans back a 1/4" which will make it much easier to get the pan past the bulge in the block plate and let you use the "Snap-Ups" that come with the one-piece blue Felpro silicon gasket. Here is how I did mine.

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/oil-p.../#post-6116554

The following are the installation instructions for my Quality Roadsters pan which are the best instructions I have ever found. If you follow these instructions your pan should not leak. Good Luck. Scott

OIL PAN INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS


Congratulations on your purchase of a Quality Roadsters oil pan, the only oil pan designed from the ground up specifically for your FFR! The Quality Roadsters 302 pans are designed to use the stock Mustang oil pickup tube and dipstick. On Mustang donor engines, simply remove the stock pan and install your new pan. If using a 302 crate, explorer engine, or other, you must use a stock 87-93 Mustang pickup tube, (or our high flow tube), and a stock 87-93 dipstick. Our 351W pans come with a replacement pickup tube and dipstick designed to work with your new pan. You may also purchase one of our high flow pickup tubes. If you are using a main cap girdle, the regular pickup tube may not clear. In this case, you must use our high flow pickup tube. It is designed to clear most girdles. Any girdle will require custom work on the pickup tube in order to work.

Make sure the gasket surfaces are clean. I recommend you clean your new pan before installation as well. Double check to make sure the windage tray bolts are tight before installation. You must check pickup tube to oil pan clearance before installing your pan. To do this, install your pickup tube, and measure from the bottom of the block to the bottom of the pickup tube. Measure vertically, not on an angle. The pickup must be 1/2 inch from the bottom of the pan. Measure the depth of the pan and compare. The pickup tube bracket may be bent to adjust the clearance if necessary. Test fit the pan to make sure there are no clearance issues. Put the pan in place on the engine. If the pan holes wont line up with the block, it’s probably the scraper hitting the pick up tube. Wiggle the pan back and forth to make a scratch mark on the scraper to determine where you need to make your adjustments. Simply bend the scraper down in those areas until it clears. While the pan is in place, rotate the engine backwards to check for crankshaft to scraper interference. If the crank is hitting the scraper, you will hear it, and it will leave a mark on the scraper. Again, simply bend the scraper down in those areas. I suggest you give the crank a little extra room just in case you miscalculate. You may also find that the back lip of the pan (where it goes around the rear main bearing cap) hits the transmission dust shield, preventing the pan holes from lining up just right. If this is the case, you can gently tap the lip in with a hammer. Once you have solved any clearance issues, you may perform the final install. Apply a small dab of RTV sealant to the block on both sides of the rear main cap (in the corners), both sides of the ½ circle on the timing cover (in the corners) and where the timing cover meets the block. I recommend Felpro pan gasket part # OS34508R for the 302 and OS34506R or OS30616R for the 351W depending on engine year (see your parts supplier). This is a one-piece rubber gasket reinforced with metal, and if installed properly it’s virtually leak proof. If the engine is in the car and gravity is working against you, use some interior trim adhesive to hold the gasket to the block (such as 3M super trim adhesive). The gasket must be installed on the engine, and then the pan put in place. Do not attempt to install the gasket on the pan, and then put the pan in place. Make sure the gasket is in place over the main cap and the ½ circle on the timing cover. Once the gasket is in place, apply a layer of RTV to the pan on both side flanges and to the gasket in the corners at the main cap, and on the timing cover to prevent leaks. Install the pan. If your original pan had flange reinforcement brackets, do not use them. Also the stock Mustang pan bolts are to long and will bottom out in the block before the pan is tight. In all cases MR GASKET oil pan bolt kit part# 6087 works nicely. The flange on the heads of the larger bolts is sometimes too large to seat properly. In this case, grind off enough of the flange on the bolts to fit properly. Check that the gasket is properly in place (especially on the main cap and ½ circle on the timing cover) and tighten the bolts. The Felpro gasket has metal rings around each hole to prevent the gasket from being over tightened. Check your drain plug to make sure it is tight. Install your oil temp sender or the pipe plug and fill with oil. Use Teflon tape on the pipe threads. The pan has a minimum capacity of 8 quarts. You can run more if you like, but do not go over the full mark on the dipstick. Make sure the dipstick is installed at the proper angle in order to get a correct reading. The dipstick tube should be close to the cylinder head if installed properly. You must also add enough oil to fill the filter (about a quart), and to fill the oil cooler (if you are using one). An oil cooler and lines can hold as much as 2 quarts.

[TMartinLVNV]

My car is up and running! I think I finally got the oil pan sealed up. On my third attempt, I used the Milodon 4 piece gasket with a dab of RTV at the four corners and where the timing cover meets the block. I have taken it out on two drives now and I don't see any oil leaks. Each time I look under the car I'm still a little nervous though. The motor is running mostly good. I have a slight hesitation and I think it is timing related. Tomorrow I'm going to try 14 degrees instead of 12 and she how it responds. After 7 weeks down time, it certainly feels good to get it back out on the road again.

I had a ton of help from several people. Thanks to all of you for your solid advice. Now it is time to clean up the garage and the car. The LV Cobra guys already have a 1/2 day drive planned next weekend. It will certainly be nice to put a few miles on the car again.

[hineas]

I'm glad it is up and running!!! Especially since the weather is so nice this time of year in Vegas.

[TMartinLVNV]

For several reasons, I decided not to go down that path.

[TMartinLVNV]

Oil pan seems to still be leak free. I did have another oil leak. It was coming down from the back of the driver's cylinder head and valve cover. I pulled the valve cover off, cleaned everything up and bolted it back together just a little bit tighter than before.

[TMartinLVNV]

It was a beautiful Nov day here in southern NV. 4 Cobras and a Camaro went for a 200 mile drive through Valley of Fire State Park and along Lake Mead. BBQ and a beer finished the trip.

[460.465USMC]

Sounds like a blast! Great motivation for me to keep plugging away. Incredible views....looks like it goes on for countless miles. Thanks for posting these pictures.

[Papa]

It was a beautiful Nov day here in southern NV. 4 Cobras and a Camaro went for a 200 mile drive through Valley of Fire State Park and along Lake Mead. BBQ and a beer finished the trip.

Awesome photos!

[TMartinLVNV]

To celebrate the end of summer 2023, Howard and I took a trip around the Grand Canyon.

We left Las Vegas, drove through Zion national park, then into the north rim of the Grand Canyon. It was an amazing day for two reasons. First, the weather cooperated. Second, we met 4 people at various gas stations that knew someone, dated someone who's father had, or was related to someone that had a "real" Cobra. What an amazing coincidence. Howard was a great brand ambassador this day answering the typical questions. We stayed overnight in Jacob Lake.

This day we drove around the east end of the Grand Canyon and into the south rim. Unfortunately, the visitor's center was closed due to staffing shortages. We then drove down through Sedona, Jerome, and stayed in Prescott. I was the brand ambassador this day answering questions while detailing my car in the parking lot before breakfast.

On the third day, we drove a portion of Rte 66 before returning to Las Vegas.

Over the three days, we drove 1000 miles. 1014 by my odometer and 980 by Howard's. This was my first long trip since last summer when I experienced the rocker arm/lifter failure. Fortunately, both of our cars drove problem free. We already have another overnight trip planned for Oct going into CA. That one should put me at 15k miles. Then my car will be ready for it's 5k inspection and deep cleaning.

Zion


North Rim


South Rim


You can figure out this one!

[TMartinLVNV]

Happiness lies ahead. Howard is behind me wishing I was taking the corners faster.

[zarnold]

Wow! Awesome pics!

[Fman]

Terry, Thanks for sharing those pics and glad your roadster is still running strong! What part of CA will you be visiting?

[TMartinLVNV]

We are driving through the San Bernardino mountains to Moreno Valley to visit the March Air Force museum. Oct 12-13.

[cc2Arider]

Nice to hear your engine woes are miles behind you Terry

Craig C

[buttsjim]

It's great to see you enjoying your car and that it's working great! You're still welcome to come by and quaff a few next time you're in San Antonio.

[TMartinLVNV]

Jim, I'll probably be back in SA in the spring. I still have your #

[TMartinLVNV]

Terry, Thanks for sharing those pics and glad your roadster is still running strong! What part of CA will you be visiting?

Howard has been thinking about planning a PCH trip for a while now. It will most likely be about a week long and going up into Oregon from north of LA. It would be great to hook up with some CA people. I'm retiring early August 2024. So, it will be shortly thereafter.

[Blitzboy54]

Outstanding. Having lived on both sides of the country, without a doubt, the west has all the best roads for this kind of stuff. Thanks for update Terry.

[TMartinLVNV]

Looks like I did one donut too many. I was giving a coworker a ride in the Cobra and was doing some showoff donuts. The M/T said no more.







I replaced the rears from some Nitto 555s and was back on the road. This actually happened just before the San Bernadino road trip.

[TMartinLVNV]

I'm at 15,140 miles now and the car was due for a deep cleaning. Wheels come off to get cleaned on the inside, wheel wells get wiped down, and frame underneath gets some loving.



I drive this car on a lot of road trips. One thing that has bugged me was how twitchy the car is at 75 mph. One mouse fart of effort is enough to change lanes on the highway. F5 sends these cars out with a "quick ratio" steering rack. I bought a standard ratio steering rack to see if it made the car more relaxing to drive. This changes the steering ratio from 15:1 to 20:1 and requires more input on the steering wheel. After getting the car aligned again, I am happy with the difference. It is not huge, but just noticeable. I took it out on the highway and now I'm at a cat fart of effort to change lanes. I think it changes lock to lock turns from 3.5 to 4 revolutions on the steering wheel.



I bought a new Cardone R-P unit from Rock Auto. A problem I ran into is that the mounting loops where the rack bushings go are a different diameter than the F5 supplied unit. The Breeze Automotive aluminum ones were slightly too large to fit this one. I bought some polyurethane ones and shaved them down to fit. Then I had to fab up some inner sleeves to fit the 1/2" bolts. It was a little bit of effort, but now all done.

[460.465USMC]

I admire a man who knows his farts. I can't think of a better way to describe it myself. I only have 1,300 miles so far, but have the power steering rack as well. I've also noticed the minimum amount of steering wheel turn it takes at speed as well.

[John Ibele]

...which raises the question: for how many of those 15k miles was the car actually moving forward?

[TMartinLVNV]

...which raises the question: for how many of those 15k miles was the car actually moving forward?

When I was wiping down the frame inside of the rear wheel wells, I considered scraping off the shredded rubber bits on the underside of the fiberglass. I decided to leave it in place and consider it sound insulation and protection from cracks in the paint from rocks thrown up by the tires.

[John Ibele]

It’s like … a self-maintaining car.