Today I did it, I made the deposit on a Type 65 Gen 3 coupe.
I am going to wax poetic for a bit because this has been a long time coming for me. When I was in high school ~20 years ago (I know, not THAT long for some of you ) my very first purchase on eBay was a poster that I have seen in the background of many build threads here. This was about the time I started to get more heavily involved in cars. I had heard of Factory Five then because they rocketed to the top of the Cobra kit car market and always said one day I would build one. After high school I went to and graduated Universal Technical Institute and after worked in a performance shop for a handful of years. During that time I got heavily involved in the new and growing drifting scene in the US. In Arizona I drove with NASA AZ and organized events under a group I started with a friend called TrialByFire. We used to run drift events throughout AZ (Firebird, PIR, P1, SIR, etc). I also drove my fair share of HPDE events as well because I also love grip racing. I built a fun little car, a 97 Nissan 240sx with a LS1
Unfortunately the economy was going south, my shop closed, and I had to make the hard choice of livelihood over chasing the dream so I moved to Phoenix to start over. I moved into the IT Industry and have been doing that in various capacities ever since. After re-establishing my career and life (bought a house, long term relationship with a very supportive girlfriend, made up for lots of missed vacations, etc.) the itch started to come back. I tried to scratch that itch with some really fun cars (E39 M5, 370z, and my current car a 2015 Mustang GT) but they didn't cut it. I didn't want to re-build my old track car and Factory Five had been at the top of my list for literally 2 decades; so here I am. I wanted a car I could drive practically year around including in our blistering summers and still be a potent track weapon.
That's about enough about me and cranking my own hog, so here's the nitty gritty.
A lot of final details will be ironed out as it goes, I purposely did not pre-plan everything because I wanted to continue to see how different people do different things and make this thing more my own with some touches to help what I will be using it for. I also did not want to speed through it as to force myself to research parts as I need them, not be concerned about fabricating, etc.
Purpose of the car: 60/40 street/track with a little drifting sprinkled in.
Heres the high level overview with my options:
Gen 3 Base Type 65 Coupe
Tubular front LCA's
2015 Mustang IRS
high back Kirkey seats
front and rear swaybars
Later Additions - AC kit and 2 piece MK4 spindles
I still haven't decided what damn engine to use.
having a fair bit of experience with LS motors so my brain screams LS3 but I absolutely love the Coyote in my Mustang so it's a hard choice. in reality it will probably be whichever I get a better deal on.
many, many other things will be decided along the way like brakes, fuel system, wheels, etc. etc.
I will do my best to keep this thread updated but it will probably go weeks/months between them. so fair warning
Some of your bio is very familiar, because it is similar to my own. Followed FFR from virtually their beginning (1995 ish), and have wanted to build one ever since. School, work, life happens and suddenly it’s 20 years later. I’ve owned and tracked a range of motorcycles and vehicles over the years, but the desire to build the FFR still lingered. In 2017 I bought an S550 Mustang with the Performance Pack, and got heavy into autocross. During one of the events who should come rolling in but Erik Treves, one of the builders I’d been following for ages online. I had no idea he lived in my neck of the woods! Sort of surreal meeting someone for the first time but feeling like you sort of know them already. Anyway, a year later and my order was placed. The time is now....enough waiting. I’m now a few months into my Gen3 Coupe-R and loving it. Will be the same disciplines as yours, even some light drifting with a group in Nashville I’ve been watching.
This post wasn’t supposed to be about me... I guess I really need to start a build thread. Lol
Congrats on your purchase! Looking forward to watching it get built! LS or Coyote should be your only two options... and I don’t think you can go wrong with either. Personally, I’m a believer in “There’s no RPM like high RPM” so the Coyote wins for that. 8,500+ rpm is just amazing. T56 Magnum for the best shifting experience and more importantly RPM/torque capability too. Just start checking as many boxes on the order list as you want, and get your garage ready!
my only "complaint" about the Coyote is cost of parts/upgrades. There's something to be said for the simplicity of a pushrod motor and how cheap/easy it is to upgrade. 1 cam vs. 4
thanks Steve!
I received my tentative build completion date of 2/22/20! things are starting to get real.
I figured I should document this because it's probably the cleanest this garage will be for the next 1-2 years. it's still a little cluttered from a bathroom remodel that took far, far too long.
yes that's a tire mounter and balancer. don't judge me.
I like where this is going! Love seeing these cars used hard on any form of track.
Both engine choices are good options. I went LS in mine because my business is based around them, I already had a good engine to build from, it fits better meaning easier maintenance, power per dollar is way better, it will always have greater power potential, and it puts weight closer to where I want it.
I'm a big fan of RPM too. For what it costs to do cams, springs, chains, and phasers on a Coyote you can build a hydraulic roller cam to turn 8,500 RPM on an LS and still make more power while spending less.
Thanks for the input Nick, I am following your build with great interest!
If you end up needing help with valvetrain setup and selection, let me know. That's what I do for a living. I can help you find the right combination to make it reliable at high RPM.
If you end up needing help with valvetrain setup and selection, let me know. That's what I do for a living. I can help you find the right combination to make it reliable at high RPM.
I will be sure to hit you up. I'm not going for 8500 but a cam/valvetrain might be in the cards at first. thank you!
The TR6060 isn't as popular for swaps because it's more expensive to start with. It also has an internal pump for a cooler so you can run a trans cooler with it. Parts availability isn't as great as the T56 either, so might steer you in that direction. I know of a handful of front shift conversions for the T56 variants but nothing for the TR6060. Silver Sport seems to have decent products. We've sold and installed a few of their trans conversions now but I don't believe they offer any TR6060 components either.
That's a good budget friendly engine and very stout. If there's one thing to change while you're doing the cam and before you put it in the car, get the heads milled and put a thinner gasket on it. A 0.036" Cometic gasket and cutting the heads to get the chambers down to 66ccs will take compression ratio from 9.6 up to 10.45:1. That gasket will also bring quench distance to about 0.030". Compression is free torque and these engines love it. It will be much more responsive everywhere. I won't even build a boosted engine below 10:1 anymore. The days of low compression are thankfully gone!
You're going to get some grief on the engine choice but you'll get used to it. Makes things more fun lol
You're going to get some grief on the engine choice but you'll get used to it. Makes things more fun lol
oh man when I took out the Skyline engine from my Nissan 240sx and replaced it with a LS1 I was a pariah. I literally got made fun of by announcers at proam events. then a few years later they were all using LS motors....
oh man when I took out the Skyline engine from my Nissan 240sx and replaced it with a LS1 I was a pariah. I literally got made fun of by announcers at proam events. then a few years later they were all using LS motors....
I embrace the hate.
I have a customer putting together a 240 with an LS/T56 right now and getting the same amount of love. I think that's part of the reason he's doing it lol. I'm looking forward to tuning it just because it always stirs crap when I post that stuff on my business page.
Congrats on the payoff! That's a pretty big occasion by itself. The engine is a big decision on any project. Truthfully you can't go wrong with either one. For me it was a bit easier with my business and having one sitting here to build. But ultimately I think even starting from scratch I'd go the same route again. It just fits the car and my goals so much better.
another update-non update. I disassembled the entire rear dropout and did a little POR15 treatment on an axle to see what it would do.
wow. I am thoroughly impressed. Living in Arizona we don't really need rust inhibitors but I am shocked how easily this stuff applied even to a piece that had surface rust. Needless to say the entire rear axle assembly is getting the same treatment.
t-4 days to my estimated completion date. I still can't believe it's coming. there is still so much left to figure out.
does anyone track their car with the OEM PBR 2 piston front brake setup? how do you like it? I am starting to wonder if I really, truly need power assisted brakes. I just don't know, the last manual brake car I drove was a 66 mustang with 4 wheel drums so it isn't really a fair gauge.
Does anyone track their car with the OEM PBR 2 piston front brake setup? how do you like it? I am starting to wonder if I really, truly need power assisted brakes. I just don't know, the last manual brake car I drove was a 66 mustang with 4 wheel drums so it isn't really a fair gauge.
Even if you could put an aggressive enough pad into the sliding-type 2-piston PBR calipers to get a high coefficient of friction statically, when you start racing on them they will most likely not be able to endure the stress dynamically for very long. Most of the time, sliding calipers like those are just not up to the task of racing duty. They’re not very stiff, due to their sliding design, so adding a bunch of heat could lead to fade, warpage, or (hopefully not) failure. If track usage is in your plan, I highly recommend going with a strong brake system even if it means moving some funds away from the engine to do so.
*Disclaimer: I have not personally tracked a FFR. I’m currently building a track-focused Coupe-R, while applying learnings from racing motorcycles and cars (mostly 3,600lb+ Mustangs), and being around people much smarter (and faster) than me.
on my old track car (similar weight to a coupe) I used the OEM nissan 240sx single piston brakes and the only time I ever had a problem was when I used full slick tires and way, way overdrove the car. I'm curious what the PBR setup can do on a car that weighs so much less than a factory mustang and paired with good pads and fluid.
Stewart transportation was great from start to finish, I see why they are the standard. this truckload of kits barely made it out before MA shut down last tuesday and per my driver he "made it out by the skin of his teeth" so I am so thankful it made it here because it sounds like I will be working from home for at least the next 30+ days.
I'm a little disappointed that an entire box was not included (it wasn't lost, it just never left the factory with my kit) but I understand the nature of this beast and it is what it is.
I paid for my LS3 motorset about 1am this morning (last night?) and by 1130am I had a tracking number and it was loaded onto the freight carrier. I am completely floored how fast the turnaround was on it.
I'm having trouble locating SN95 spindles at a reasonable price, anyone have any ideas? I'd prefer new/reman'd over ebay/parts yards. I know FFR has some still but they are...expensive.... to say the least.
I just bought enough **** to keep me busy for the next year + a handful of light upgrades for the LS (clutch, cam/valvetrain, etc) if I'm gonna be stuck in my house I'm gonna spend it building this thing.
also, the aluminum panels are very, very sharp. wear gloves, and try not to crack your head on the edge of dash like an idiot. did you know foreheads bleed, a lot?
Why donor front spindles? The geometry of the Factory Five 2-piece spindles is vastly superior and don't require the upper ball joint adapter. Plus sounds like may not be much more expensive. I've had both and there's a marked difference in how well the FF spindles drive. The total lack of bump steer was a welcome improvement.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
and are we talking about the same "donor" spindles? I might be using that phrase incorrectly here. I'm going with a SN95 94+ 5 lug, 2 piece setup. they are less than $150 used and the FFR ones are $700.
and are we talking about the same "donor" spindles? I might be using that phrase incorrectly here. I'm going with a SN95 94+ 5 lug, 2 piece setup. they are less than $150 used and the FFR ones are $700.
Thanks. I'm talking about these. If you're not using them, IMO that's a big mistake. They come with the complete kit but not the base kit you purchased. I get they're more expensive. But not a place to save budget. You're building a high end ride there. Figure out a way to reduce cost somewhere else if you have to.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
so since we're talking about a gen 3 coupe and not a MK4, what's the difference between those you posted and these listed for the coupes? https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/145...t-spindle-set/ I'm not trying to argue I'm just genuinely curious why the 2 piece setup is superior but on FFR's site they don't even list it as an option for the coupes? If there is such a massive difference I'm not opposed to spending the money
Not all the parts that are common between the models are listed on the Coupe parts list on the FFR parts web site. All the suspension parts are the same but the coupe body is wider so the wheel fit is slightly different. The new FFR front spindle design is better, way less bump steer.
David W
Mkll 4874 built in 2004
Gen 3 coupe #16 registered 2018 painted 2019
so since we're talking about a gen 3 coupe and not a MK4, what's the difference between those you posted and these listed for the coupes? https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/145...t-spindle-set/ I'm not trying to argue I'm just genuinely curious why the 2 piece setup is superior but on FFR's site they don't even list it as an option for the coupes? If there is such a massive difference I'm not opposed to spending the money
Originally Posted by David Williamson
Not all the parts that are common between the models are listed on the Coupe parts list on the FFR parts web site. All the suspension parts are the same but the coupe body is wider so the wheel fit is slightly different. The new FFR front spindle design is better, way less bump steer.
David W
The spindles you linked to (part #14507) are Mustang spindles. The ones David W and I are talking about are proprietary FFR designed spindles that were made available some years ago and are included in complete kits. Incorporated various fixes that people had come up with over years to improve the donor parts. Plus eliminated the need for the upper ball joint adapters. https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/138...apter-bracket/. The same exact suspension parts are used on several FFR models, including the FFR 2-piece spindles. Roadster, Coupe, and their various Hot Rod models. Agree it's a little confusing the FFR parts page doesn't say that. As David W said, all the suspension parts between the Roadster and the Coupe are exactly the same. The picture I posted happened to be from a Roadster build. Looks the same on the Coupe.
Last edited by edwardb; 04-03-2020 at 12:20 PM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
I wonder why the 2 piece ones aren't listed on the coupe's parts page. looks like I need to order those.
On the kit overview on their website, base kit says it's expected you would use donor Mustang LCA and spindle. On the complete kit overview says the complete front suspension is included and mentions the FFR spindles. On the base kit order form, it does list FFR LCA's as an option, but you're right not the FFR spindles. Probably covered under the ending statement "Additional parts and custom options can be found in our parts catalog." Curious did you order your kit on-line or did you call and walk through the order on the phone? A lot of times these kinds of choices are discussed when you call and actually talk to someone. But in the end now you know what the options are. Probably won't be the last surprise and/or change you make during the build. Nature of the process.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
take a drill and a wire wheel to the threaded portion of your upper ball joint mount and to the threaded part of your ball joint. there's so much powder coating and paint on each piece it's actually impossible to fully seat.
30 seconds with a drill, seats no problem. don't forget red loctite!
I'm still debating on using the SN95 spindles, the bump steer issue seems to be more manageable for some. Since they're here I might as well install them and I can always upgrade later.
I'm using a new power steering rack from RockAuto and the ID of the metal bushing is 2mm smaller than the OD of the busing insert that comes with the base kit.
Has anyone ran into this before? I think the easiest path to resolution is to drill out the "OEM" bushing (it's 3mm thick) and press the FFR one into it.
here's a few photos of what I'm talking about.
the "OEM" bushing and the FFR one
their sizes:
and just in case, how the "OEM" bushing fits and sits in the rack (not pressed into place)
Thanks: 
Likes: 
) my very first purchase on eBay was a poster that I have seen in the background of many build threads here. This was about the time I started to get more heavily involved in cars. I had heard of Factory Five then because they rocketed to the top of the Cobra kit car market and always said one day I would build one. After high school I went to and graduated Universal Technical Institute and after worked in a performance shop for a handful of years. During that time I got heavily involved in the new and growing drifting scene in the US. In Arizona I drove with NASA AZ and organized events under a group I started with a friend called TrialByFire. We used to run drift events throughout AZ (Firebird, PIR, P1, SIR, etc). I also drove my fair share of HPDE events as well because I also love grip racing. I built a fun little car, a 97 Nissan 240sx with a LS1
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Originally Posted by ProJoe
