Wilwood Brake Bleeding Help Needed

[JMan]

So, I'm not new to brake systems, however I'm having trouble finding my leaks. I'm trying to bleed the system and I am getting air into both the front and rear system. I have the Wilwood pedal box with the front Wilwood brakes and rear Wilwood IRS brakes. I am running the CNC triple reservoir along with Forte's hydraulic clutch master and slave.
FYI... The clutch system bled perfectly and works flawlessly.
I bench bled all 3 MCs
I used all FFR provided tubes and fittings
I did shorten 2 tubes and double flared the ends myself (have done this many times over on my mustang and ranchero with no issues)
I have a vacuum bleeder which I used to pull brake fluid to each caliper and then I manually bled from there. (wife pumped pedal 3 times and held as I cracked the bleeder(s) - again, not a new process for us and our fleet)
I am getting air introduced into system somewhere as the bubbles are non-stop and I can't get anywhere close to a firm pedal.
I did find 2 small leaks after the first attempt to bleed where the "T" block met the transition fitting (see picture with blue circle) I tightened those up another 1/4 turn or so, but they are super tight now and no longer leaking.
I'm stumped and my next step is to disassemble the whole system and start again.

From the experts out there... what am I missing?

brakes2.jpgbrakes4.jpgbrakes3.jpgBrakes1 (2)_LI.jpg

[Railroad]

I think you need to look on the master cyl and reservoir side of the system. Check your lines from the reservoirs to the master cyl's, make sure the fluid level is higher than the master cyl's.
With experience, I doubt you are doing this, but pump the pedal slowly, not too fast.
If you think it may be on the hard lines. I like to tighten, loosen and re tighten flares. Since you already have fluid in the system, no need to lube the flares. You should get some leakage, and it will lube the flare for an easier seating.
Do not know where else to go. You don't have any hard lines running higher than the master cyl, do you?
In a long length of line, the bubble, air, could go back to the high point with pumping and bleeding.
If your vacuum bleeder uses the bleed valve on the calipers, it can pull air by the threads.
Just for info, my Wilwoods gravity bled then a few pumps to get minor air out of the calipers.
good luck,

[edwardb]

I use pressure bleeding with good success. I personally haven't bled my brakes using the brake pedal push method, but have read repeatedly including from Factory Five that the Wilwood system with the twin MC's and balance bar needs to be bled both cylinders at the same time when using this method. In other words, both front and back at the same time.

[JMan]

I use pressure bleeding with good success. I personally haven't bled my brakes using the brake pedal push method, but have read repeatedly including from Factory Five that the Wilwood system with the twin MC's and balance bar needs to be bled both cylinders at the same time when using this method. In other words, both front and back at the same time.

Do you have a pressure bleeder kit that your purchased? I googled a pressure cap for the CNC reservoirs, but looks like they've gone out of business.
Thanks!

[edwardb]

Do you have a pressure bleeder kit that your purchased? I googled a pressure cap for the CNC reservoirs, but looks like they've gone out of business.
Thanks!

I have the CNC 1459A pressure cap. Works great. Unfortunately, you're right, CNC closed down their business. Quick Google search and I don't see any of those caps available anywhere. Would be easy enough to make. Just the same threaded cap with a Schrader valve installed. If a cap could be found with the same threads as the CNC reservoirs.

[JMan]

Thanks! I found one on Ebay. Ordered and en route. I was curious about how the divorced MC with balance bar affected bleeding. This will sidestep that issue.

I'll take railroad's advice and remove and reconnect all hardlines to ensure a good seal.

Thank you both!

[emac]

You could try a mityvac and suck fluid towards the calipers. I have started using it more than my Motiv pressure bleeder as I find the mityvac easier to use and less chance of making a mess.

[boat737]

I'm not an expert in this, but I also pressure bled the systems. A word of caution: Use a very low pressure so as not to blow out any M/C seals. I did mine with a regulator that was turned all the way down. That gave me about 4 or 5 PSI. Worked good.

[Railroad]

You can clamp a bicycle tube over both reservoirs and air up the tube on the valve stem. Just keep pressure low.

[Boydster]

I work on my car by myself with very little help. Full Wilwood system. I bled my brakes using a small check valve that fits in the bleeder hose off the calipers. Started at the rh rear, lh rear, rh front, then lh front. Had to go back n forth on the rears an extra cycle. Just keep the res's full and pump it through. Worked first round and have never had to go back and re-bleed. Eeezy Peezy.

[CraigS]

...I was curious about how the divorced MC with balance bar affected bleeding. This will sidestep that issue...

Good curiosity there. That is why, if manually bleeding, you need to do a front and rear at the same time. If you just do one, you would find out the the cross shaft between the two MCs can not move to enough angle to have one MC completely relaxed and the other fully depressed. So you end up pumping the MC w/ maybe 3/4 stroke.
Removing and re-connecting all the lines may be overkill but can't hurt. But realize that, once you get the system bled, you may need to crank down on a few of them. My experience is there are always a couple that I have to tighten enough that I am fearful I will strip the nut. When you are checking for leaks don't look for a drip. It may not be that bad. I make sure my index finger is dry, and rub it around the fitting. If it comes out w/ a damp spot, tighten more.

[Railroad]

I must have mis stated my suggestion on seating the brake line flares. I do not think it necessary to remove each line. I just loosen, making sure the flare becomes un seated and re tighten.

[JMan]

I have the CNC 1459A pressure cap. Works great. Unfortunately, you're right, CNC closed down their business. Quick Google search and I don't see any of those caps available anywhere. Would be easy enough to make. Just the same threaded cap with a Schrader valve installed. If a cap could be found with the same threads as the CNC reservoirs.

I found a CNC 1459A on ebay from a dune buggy parts house. Worked like a dream. I have pedal now.

Thanks for the suggestions everybody!

[miller7448]

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Radiator hose and the protective cap that shipped with the swing arms if I remember right.