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Thread: starter/battery issues

  1. #1
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    starter/battery issues

    hello all - just started to have a random problem with starter motor and battery issues. mk IV with blueprint 427 finished this past may and everything going very well until last week have about 1400 miles so far suddenly won't crank over battery showing approx 13.5 volts then starter motor won't engage flywheel and just spins even with ignition off have to use battery cut off to stop starter motor now if battery cut off switch is "on" the battery cables get very hot real quick i have checked engine block ground to chassis battery ground to chassis and fuse block ground to chassis all are tight and seem ok any thought ideas truly appreciated

    thank you
    dave s

  2. #2
    Senior Member Norm B's Avatar
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    Do you have a separate solenoid or a mini starter with the solenoid attached? Your ignition switch could be fried and stuck in the start position or the solenoid on the starter welded closed. Either way the starter is now shot. If it spins without turning the engine you either have a broken starter bendix (the gizmo that pushes the starter gear out to engage the flywheel), a stripped starter gear or missing teeth on the flywheel. Let’s hope it’s the starter.

    Good Luck

    Norm

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm B View Post
    Do you have a separate solenoid or a mini starter with the solenoid attached? Your ignition switch could be fried and stuck in the start position or the solenoid on the starter welded closed. Either way the starter is now shot. If it spins without turning the engine you either have a broken starter bendix (the gizmo that pushes the starter gear out to engage the flywheel), a stripped starter gear or missing teeth on the flywheel. Letís hope itís the starter.

    Good Luck

    Norm
    i do have a new starter being shipped i hope thats the problem
    thanks for the reply
    dave s

  4. #4
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    It's a bit hard to understand without periods and such, but I assume you mean that:
    1. When you turn the ignition key to start and then release it, the starter will continue to run until battery power is interrupted. This happens even after you release the key and turn the ignition to off.
    2. Once battery power is restored, the starter motor will not re-energize itself until the ignition key is turned to start. Then the cycle repeats itself.

    If so, here's something else to consider.

    If the starter is still getting power when you release the ignition key (assuming no fancy late-model starting software), then there's an electrical problem somewhere that needs to be addressed prior to installing a new starter/assembly. Make sure the ignition switch and starter solenoid are operating properly. If the solenoid stayed energized for a long time it could have burned out the coil or damaged the bendix gear teeth. Also, if it self energized while the engine was running it could have broken a tooth or two off of the flywheel. But it sounds more like a sticky relay or a short causing the relay to stay energized.
    Last edited by RBachman; 09-11-2019 at 11:29 AM.
    FFR MKIV ordered 12 July 2019 for delivery Mid September, (Stewart had other ideas, so early October?). IRS, Wilwood Brakes, 18" Wheels w/MT tires, power steering, EFI, AC/Heat. 347 Dart by Mike Forte. All new, no donor build. Jeff Kleiner will provide body and paint work.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Norm B's Avatar
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    RBachman makes a very good point. Check the entire start circuit before installing the new starter. If you have a relay in your start circuit, like I do to allow for a clutch pedal safety switch, that could also have failed closed.

    Good Luck
    Norm

  6. #6
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    thank you for the thoughts and ideas. i do have a clutch safety switch installed and seems to be working properly. the ground wire from the fuse block was a little loose but not off, not sure if that would cause a problem or not. will definitely check it all out first before installing new starter!
    thanks again,
    dave s

  7. #7
    #9160 BB767's Avatar
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    You mentioned the ground cables were tight, but....
    Mine were tight also. When installing them I thought I had cleaned them throughly before installation. But I had similar problems as yours. After removing ground cable and completely removing ALL of the paint on the frame attach point, the problem went away. Those ground points are more sensitive than I would have thought.
    MK4 - complete kit - Blueprint 427W - Holly Sniper EFI - TKO 600 .64 - 3.55 3 link - 17" Halibrands

  8. #8
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    thanks for the reply, i am checking all the grounding points again!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Just puttering's Avatar
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    I did not notice if you have a fire wall starter relay?
    If yes disconect the starter from it, turn your kill switch on and check that the wires have stopped getting hot!
    check voltage from the starter relay post to ground. It should be 0volts, turn the key to start, it should be 12v, release and it should be 0 again and you should have cool wires.
    Starter relay on the starter, disconnect the starter wire and the ignition switch wire at the starter, with the kill switch turned to off!! Do not let it touch anything, turn on the kill switch and make sure the wires are not heating up. You should have 0 volts on the ignition wire, cycle the key to start and back and make sure that wire is turning on and off, if not i would assume the ignition switch is bad.
    With the car in neutral and wheels blocked and you not under it or in front of it, or someone helping you stepping on the clutch and brake ( best option), tap the starter lug with the big hot wire, if you get sparks, or the starter hits like its gonna start it is stuck on and needs replaced.
    A loose ground or 12v wire will pull more current and heat up wires and burn things up. Could be the same in the starter relay!
    Last edited by Just puttering; 09-14-2019 at 06:40 PM.
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  11. #10
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    The chrome starter from Blueprint is not up to the task of a 427. I had same issues with a BP 427. Bought a HD mini starter from Summit. Problem gone.

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