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Thread: fletch & son's build thread

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    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    fletch & son's build thread

    Finally... getting around to making this thread.

    Back on Saturday, March 23rd my son, a very good friend of ours, and I picked up the in-process red car kit from Bob_n_Cincy & his son Michael. They live outside Cincinnati, OH. We live outside of Albuquerque, NM — 2,800 miles in 3 days. We were beat when we got home, but had an unloading crew ready to assist.

    While in Cincy, Bob and Mike gave us a tour of the blue ICE 818s and took us for some spins around the neighborhood. This was the first completed 818 we’d seen in person and our first ride in one. We exited the blue car with some very big grins! Bob & Mike were gracious with their time, but we needed to get on the road quickly to make the return trip.

    The kit is chassis #21 with several of Bob’s modifications. Highlights in the kit as purchased include the front gas tank with necessary frame mods and most of the parts from an ’05 FXT Bob & Mike had prepared for use.

    After our departure from Bob’s we passed the St. Louis arch & settled in for a long day of driving. That night while pulling into a rest stop in Oklahoma, we saw the Factory Five semi truck pulling out! It was headed to our place to drop off the hardtop we’d ordered from FFR directly. We met up with the truck the next day.

    Bob & Mike’s original build thread:
    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ld-(red-frame)

    IMG_2261.JPGIMG_3003.JPGIMG_2285.JPGIMG_2293.JPG57522789043__287C5EC2-F1CB-472A-B0FB-435617530EC9.JPGIMG_2309.JPG

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    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    My son, Isaac, is 15 and will be getting his provisional license tomorrow. New Mexico is the wild, wild west and people around here drive like that's still the case! I can't believe my kid is driving. <sigh>

    Our build goals are pretty simple:
    • Learn new skills - welding, assembly, fab, paint, wiring, all sorts of other things
    • Spend time together with my kids - show them that the complex things around them are really just combinations of simple things
    • Solve problems together
    • Have the satisfaction of doing a good job
    • Build a working car
    • Have fun with the research, decisions, build, and driving
    • Stretch goal - build a car that I will want to drive regularly


    General overview of build:
    Looking to make a street driver, with occasional autocross days - mostly to gain skill in driving it safely
    Power steering
    ABS
    AC + heat
    WRX front brakes
    FXT front calipers installed in rear
    Front mount tank

    Shooting for a two-year long build, but that's very open-ended. I'm not a huge planner, but I do work at problems persistently. So we'll see how it plays out.

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    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Donor(s)

    Bob supplied most of the donor parts from an 05 FXT. Conspicuously absent was an engine & transmission!
    So we purchased a rolled 06 WRX wagon at auction. It was a bit sad disassembling this car because it was clearly loved by its owner before the wreck. It had 96k on it and was almost completely stock. We moved fast and may have misplaced a few bolts. Fortunately, we've got all of the parts provided by Bob to refer to!

    This was the first time I'd pulled an engine. A little sawzall action on the front frame members and everything came out smoothly. Getting the engine out was far easier than pulling out the heater core.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Good luck Brian and Isaac. This will be an experience that you both will cherish the rest of your life.
    Let me know if you need any parts.
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

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    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Thanks Bob. I appreciate all the help you've provided so far and I'm working on a list of questions for you!

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    Looking forward to your posts. Glad you have your kids in the project - fantastic stuff to do together.

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    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Let's keep an eye on this one too.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  11. #8
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    The only project better than building a Factory Five car is building it as a parent/child project. I'm envious.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

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    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    Our build goals are pretty simple:
    • Build a working car


    YES! And by now you know a lot what I mean by that.


    Can you elaborate more on the engine/drivetrain you plan on dropping in? We didn't talk much about your build, on Friday!

    Also once you get pix of that Bob's fuel tank, I'm curious to see how it looks and the details around the fuel pump hole and level sender hole.


    Details is what will make the car a DD and reliable. Fitting stuff in is easy. Making everything work flawlessly is another story, those little details to finish up the fitment is what will make the biggest difference on a DD. But you already have that in mind after discussing with you, which is a great start, you shouldn't have much things to come back to and re-do cuz you forgot little details for reliability.


    I'm also very interested about your FXT front calipers installed in rear, those are Forester XT fronts you will install in rear? Do you know if there's a thread on that somewhere? I'd like to change my current setup but I'd like something that would fit using the existing brackets without too much modifications, if that exists...
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

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    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Can you elaborate more on the engine/drivetrain you plan on dropping in? We didn't talk much about your build, on Friday!
    I'll be using the 2.5L EJ255 from an 06 WRX donor. It has ~96k miles on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818
    Also once you get pix of that Bob's fuel tank, I'm curious to see how it looks and the details around the fuel pump hole and level sender hole
    Will do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818
    I'm also very interested about your FXT front calipers installed in rear, those are Forester XT fronts you will install in rear? Do you know if there's a thread on that somewhere? I'd like to change my current setup but I'd like something that would fit using the existing brackets without too much modifications, if that exists...
    I'll be writing up what we did eventually. Admittedly, I haven't gotten the rotors figured out yet so it might be a while. You can also check Bob's thread for some details.

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    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    First suspension assembly

    Performed a very quick & crude first go at assembling the front & rear suspension mostly to confirm we've got all the right parts & fasteners.




    Learned a few things:
    1) The rear trailing arms need to be flipped.
    2) We need to figure a way to properly mount the steering rack. The spacers on hand don't fit properly and, more importantly, the cradle interferes with one of the power steering fluid ports. Mechie's cradle seems like a good solution, but I'm not 100% certain it will be a proper fit.
    3) I do have a steering rack spacer to extend the rack on the passenger side. I'm assuming I'll also need a longer boot on that side. Can anyone confirm?
    4) I'm really not happy with the way the front LCAs fit. We had to fight very hard to get them installed in the outer holes. Even then, they are not square to the brackets. Here's an example of the misalignment. Note the angle between the rear edge of the "hurricane" bracket and the mount point on the frame. Input would be most welcome.
    Last edited by fletch; 10-21-2019 at 11:08 PM. Reason: Fixed broken links - frustrated with image gallery interface...

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    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Pedal Box - DBW

    Our pedal box is from an 06 WRX so it's got the frustrating drive by wire setup. I really like the look of the pedal and prefer the DBW setup for simplicity so I figured we'd try to make it work. Here's how we did it.

    First, we figured out where the pedal should go using a piece of plywood.

    Used some 1/4" flat stock to make it official. (Those are my welds. Isaac's are typically a little nicer.)

    Taped some rare earth magnets to the back of the pedal for ease of determining location during mock up.

    Once we figured out the location of the pedal on the bracket, we drilled the holes. Here's the hardware we used.

    Here's the nearly finished product:


    We used some drawer liner foam strips inside the pipe brackets to take up the space. Only thing left is to buy some rivnuts to secure the bottom of the bracket to the vertical firewall brace.
    Last edited by fletch; 10-21-2019 at 11:11 PM. Reason: Fixed broken links - frustrated with image gallery interface...

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  18. #13
    Senior Member Hobby Racer's Avatar
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    Picture links are broken
    MK3.1 Roadster completed 2011
    818R built with EZ36R H6 completed 2018
    818R rebuild with a JDM Honda K24A

  19. #14
    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobby Racer View Post
    Picture links are broken
    Should be fixed now.

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    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    Performed a very quick & crude first go at assembling the front & rear suspension mostly to confirm we've got all the right parts & fasteners.


    Learned a few things:
    1) The rear trailing arms need to be flipped.
    2) We need to figure a way to properly mount the steering rack. The spacers on hand don't fit properly and, more importantly, the cradle interferes with one of the power steering fluid ports. Mechie's cradle seems like a good solution, but I'm not 100% certain it will be a proper fit.
    3) I do have a steering rack spacer to extend the rack on the passenger side. I'm assuming I'll also need a longer boot on that side. Can anyone confirm?
    4) I'm really not happy with the way the front LCAs fit. We had to fight very hard to get them installed in the outer holes. Even then, they are not square to the brackets. Here's an example of the misalignment. Note the angle between the rear edge of the "hurricane" bracket and the mount point on the frame. Input would be most welcome.
    Your front strut adapter are on backwards.
    You don't need a longer boot for the steering rack extender.
    The LCA fitment has never been good. here is the original picture: lca.jpg

    On my rack extender, I added a roll pin for safety. rack extension.jpg
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 10-22-2019 at 01:23 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  21. #16
    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Bob,
    Thanks for the info on the steering rack. It was apparent to me that you had trouble with the LCAs given the oval mounting holes. We'll just do our best to get all the bolts to seat securely and move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Your front strut adapter are on backwards.
    Can you tell me more about this? I'm thinking you mean the lower attachment points for the struts should be rotated 180. (But secretly hoping that's not the case since we welded them... Maybe this is the excuse I was looking for to buy the aluminum LCAs. )

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    I think he is talking about the part I put a red oval around below....

    Front Suspension 2 rev2.jpg

    I would also look again at the place I have the red arrow pointing. I think the grease fittings are supposed to be facing up. You may have those on upside down. But to get them right I think you need to disassemble the upper a-arm pieces.

  23. #18
    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    I'm embarrassed. Looking back at my own photos, it's apparent those are incorrect. Thanks for pointing out that (no so) obvious goof!
    Looks like I'll need to find a different reason to buy the aluminum LCAs!

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    Welcome to the club! You are not alone when it comes to goofs!

  25. #20
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    I'm embarrassed. Looking back at my own photos, it's apparent those are incorrect. Thanks for pointing out that (no so) obvious goof!
    Looks like I'll need to find a different reason to buy the aluminum LCAs!
    Don't feel bad, I think 1/2 of the builders put the hurricane mounts in up-side-down the first time.

    You would of figure it out when the tires rubbed. Just to let you know, everybody's tires rubbed somewhere.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 10-22-2019 at 07:07 PM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

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    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    everybody's tires rubbed somewhere.
    LOOLLL!!! So true.
    Now Brian you probably think "then how come mines didn't rub?" Well I implemented various solutions all in one to prevent that from happening. But they did rub until I implemented all those small solutions. YMMV depending on a lot of things, for some people some solutions don't work well, others they work perfect.
    If you ever want to know what I did specifically on mine, lemme know. And BTW, this area is a very rare one where all my custom solutions from the VR6 implementation have not dictated any of my solutions, so they may well be 100% applicable to you as well.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  27. #22

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    My front wheels rubbed the frame just a bit until I got the castor set, then plenty of room showed up there. Now it's true my suspension is a one-off since I went with 2009 Legacy parts, but my lower arms are setup to mimic the FFR designed geometry AND from other builder threads you'll still find that your castor needs to be about right before you decide whether you have a clearance problem or not.

  28. #23
    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Don't feel bad, I think 1/2 of the builders put the hurricane mounts in up-side-down the first time.

    You would of figure it out when the tires rubbed. Just to let you know, everybody's tires rubbed somewhere.
    Bob
    Have we got the hurricane mounts correct? Flat side up?

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    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    Have we got the hurricane mounts correct? Flat side up?
    Yes, flat side up is correct.
    Doing so moves the pivot point toward the side of the car. This move the ball joint forward. This give you more clearance between tire and firewall.
    Bob
    lca.jpg
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

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    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Progress so far

    This update has been a long time in coming. As I look at the status of things, I actually feel a bit discouraged even though I know there's a lot of work represented. First, some pics.
    The car as it stands today. All four corners are in. Fronts are fully torqued, rears partially until engine is dropped in. Gas tank is in (and not coming out!). Seats are ready to go in, but are out for now. Rear firewall and rear-rear firewall are prepped.


    Here's the engine/trans combo. Doesn't look like much, but... timing belt & water pump replaced, new plugs, clocked turbo, evap|PCV|EGR deleted, harness dieted, and probably a couple other things I don't remember. I could use some insight here. I'm just about ready to torque the intake manifold back on, but I'm afraid we're forgetting something. We're keeping AC & power steering. Is there anything else we really ought to do before we torque the manifold?


    And here's a quick shot of the front right corner showing the brakes, control arm & some of the inner fender.


    Once we get the intake manifold torqued, our next move is to put the engine in place. Then start plumbing everything...

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  34. #28
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Huh? "a bit discouraged", you say? It looks like you've completed a lot of projects so far. Remember that it's hundreds of small projects and not one big project. Remember the elephant eating adage. All that you've completed looks good to me.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

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  36. #29
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    Here's the engine/trans combo. Doesn't look like much, but... timing belt & water pump replaced, new plugs, clocked turbo, evap|PCV|EGR deleted, harness dieted, and probably a couple other things I don't remember. I could use some insight here. I'm just about ready to torque the intake manifold back on, but I'm afraid we're forgetting something. We're keeping AC & power steering. Is there anything else we really ought to do before we torque the manifold?
    Looking good Brian, Great job.
    Are you going to do a TGV delete before putting on the intake manifold?
    Nice looking engine. I have never seen an unrusted exhaust heat shield.

    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 03-28-2020 at 12:56 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

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    Looks really, really nice. Make a list and cross something off - sometimes that helps me when it just seems there's no light in the tunnel... Keep it fun.

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    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Thanks, everyone, for the encouragement. You know how it is -- set some goals and struggle to keep them. Plus, it's been a year since we picked up the kit. Just hoping we'd be further along. That's all. Hopefully, we'll get the engine in this weekend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Looking good Brian, Great job.
    Are you going to do a TGV delete before putting on the intake manifold?
    Nice looking engine. I have never seen an unrusted exhaust heat shield.
    Bob
    Hey Bob. Yes, one of the things I forgot to mention was the TGV delete. And yes, I'm happy with the condition of the engine. Shows what it's like here in the southwest.

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    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Need some help. With the engine in, lots of things sit below the frame and interfere with the lovely belly pan we made months ago. Both ends of the exhaust manifold, the oil pan, even the oil filter. We could make some spacers for the engine mounts to lift the engine by about 1/2-3/4" but even then we'll still have some interference. Without spending much $$$ (new oil pan, etc.), what's the conventional wisdom on how to make things better? Thanks!

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    Notch the belly pan?

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    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    Need some help. With the engine in, lots of things sit below the frame and interfere with the lovely belly pan we made months ago. Both ends of the exhaust manifold, the oil pan, even the oil filter. We could make some spacers for the engine mounts to lift the engine by about 1/2-3/4" but even then we'll still have some interference. Without spending much $$$ (new oil pan, etc.), what's the conventional wisdom on how to make things better? Thanks!
    Here is a picture of my belly pan, Only the oil pan needed a hole cut. Some other components may be touched by the pan.
    belly pan.jpg

    The wrx pan if I remember correctly is about an inch deeper than the forester pan.
    Top Left: Killer B Motorsport Oil Pan
    Top Right: OEM 2002-2005 EJ20 WRX Oil Pan Subaru number 11109AA053
    Bottom Right: OEM 06+ EJ25 Impreza WRX/STi (STi, Legacy GT & Forester XT) Subaru number 11109AA151
    Bottom Left: OEM 04-05 EJ25 Impreza STi (Legacy GT & Forester XT) Subaru number 11109AA131
    oilpans.jpg
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 03-28-2020 at 11:59 PM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  42. #35
    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajzride View Post
    Notch the belly pan?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Here is a picture of my belly pan, Only the oil pan needed a hole cut. Some other components may be touched by the pan.
    belly pan.jpg

    The wrx pan if I remember correctly is about an inch deeper than the forester pan.
    Top Left: Killer B Motorsport Oil Pan
    Top Right: OEM 2002-2005 EJ20 WRX Oil Pan Subaru number 11109AA053
    Bottom Right: OEM 06+ EJ25 Impreza WRX/STi (STi, Legacy GT & Forester XT) Subaru number 11109AA151
    Bottom Left: OEM 04-05 EJ25 Impreza STi (Legacy GT & Forester XT) Subaru number 11109AA131
    oilpans.jpg
    Our "new and improved" belly pan.

    And our super fancy metal brake.

  43. Likes grabera7 liked this post
  44. #36
    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Go-kart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    We are at go-kart stage.

    Pics & video tonight.

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  46. #37
    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    On Friday, we had our first start! Here's a video of our second start, the first with all four cylinders. The first start actually happened when we testing for spark. One plug was out and another coil was disconnected. The engine started on two cylinders!

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  48. #38
    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    On Saturday, we got to go-kart stage after addressing a few ride height issues. Here's a video of Isaac and his younger brother touring the neighborhood. His sister is the voice asking for the next ride! It's such a great experience seeing the smile on his face.

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  50. #39
    Senior Member fletch's Avatar
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    Here are a few pics showing how things stand. Comments, questions, suggestions are all welcome.

    The rat's nest


    Epic intake hanger!





    Note, the near A-arm is leaking grease through the top. Any suggestions on this?


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  52. #40
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    Amazing how good that red frame looks.

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