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Thread: 25th Anniversary Build

  1. #121
    Senior Member Garage Guy's Avatar
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    Don't know for sure but I think the braided lines go all the way back to the tank

  2. #122
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Yes, all those plastic OE cold air intake pieces are leftover. Into the recycle bin for me. I'm assuming that cone air filter is what came with your kit, and doesn't fit the Spectre parts you're using. That's a donor piece they provide, and not sure why to be honest. Worth 10 - 20 bucks if you want to take the time to sell leftover parts. For you picture of the cold air intake, highly recommended to put the MAF sensor on the front of the intake run. So that it's in the longest path of air travel. Speaking of the MAF sensor, make sure you exactly followed the instructions and have it in the right way. Common error to have it in backwards (it will go either way) which will result in a no start/no run condition.

    For those three large wires, those don't have to physically go to the starter. In fact I generally recommend against it. They're usually not long enough, or at the very least it's not very clean looking dragging them down there. Your Coyote completion kit came with a large binding post. That's to go on the firewall and be a gathering point for those wires, your wire from the battery, and also can hook your PDB power wire there. Or you can use a master disconnect as a gathering point. The RF wiring diagram shows those going to a "starter solenoid" which IMO is a throwback to the days when Ford starters didn't have an integral solenoid and used one mounted on the firewall. And yes, that blue wire in that bundle is not used if you're using the Coyote start wire.
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  3. #123
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garage Guy View Post
    Don't know for sure but I think the braided lines go all the way back to the tank
    That’s what I assumed too, even though the instructions had me run the hard lines earlier, I was gonna rip those out and run the braided lines back... Figured I would double check before undoing something.
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  4. #124
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    I made sure the MAF sensor is facing the right way, read about that a few times on people’s forum’s. Do you mean put the MAF sensor near the engine instead of next the air filter?
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  5. #125
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    I made sure the MAF sensor is facing the right way, read about that a few times on people’s forum’s. Do you mean put the MAF sensor near the engine instead of next the air filter?
    No. Rotate the tube so it's on the outside of the curve, meaning the front of the intake, e.g. front of the car. Visible in this picture. Recommended in that location by Ford, tuners, etc. Gets the best airflow signal apparently.

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  6. #126
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    No. Rotate the tube so it's on the outside of the curve, meaning the front of the intake, e.g. front of the car. Visible in this picture. Recommended in that location by Ford, tuners, etc. Gets the best airflow signal apparently.

    Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the pic. I tilted it down just cause I thought it looked better, but I’ll flip it around
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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    The bushings that are presently in the rack need to come out and will be replaced by (4) rubber/poly inserts supplied by Factory Five which will then get the sleeve that is shown in your photo inserted through them.

    You realize that the upper ball joint on the passenger side is not fully threaded in and seated in the control arm, right?

    Jeff
    I don't recall having extra bushings with power steering bag of parts. I shoved the "stock" (what came on PS rack) bushings with original spacers into the frame tabs and it all seems to fit.

  8. #128
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    One of the wire connectors shows "C132 AAT". From what I can figure out that is for the Ambient Air Temperature. It's on the same bundle as "C400 2 Way ICP", which I think is for a supercharger, which I don't need..... yet.

    I can't find anything in the directions that mentions if I need the C132 AAT or where it would go? Anyone have any insight?

    Also on another bundle, I have "C1572 UEGO", O2 sensor I believe but it also has on the same bundle "C141 CMS RH and LH"... I can't figure out what that's for.
    Last edited by delta0014; 11-02-2019 at 01:24 PM.
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  9. #129
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Ok, so what I found is that the AAT connector is for a temp display on a mustangs IPC. So not needed for my car.

    The "C141 CMS" connector is for a different type of O2 sensor. (heated vs non heated?). So again, don't think i need to worry about that.

    If anyone knows something different, I'm all ears.

    As far as the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator, I believe it either attaches to the smaller vacuum line on the intake manifold or the throttle body. About the only thing I could find references the throttle body, so I'm going to hook it up to that line.?
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  10. #130
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    One of the wire connectors shows "C132 AAT". From what I can figure out that is for the Ambient Air Temperature. It's on the same bundle as "C400 2 Way ICP", which I think is for a supercharger, which I don't need..... yet.

    I can't find anything in the directions that mentions if I need the C132 AAT or where it would go? Anyone have any insight?

    Also on another bundle, I have "C1572 UEGO", O2 sensor I believe but it also has on the same bundle "C141 CMS RH and LH"... I can't figure out what that's for.
    You're right about C400. That's for a supercharger intercooler. I removed it since I have no intentions of adding a supercharger. But doesn't hurt to leave it if any doubt. C132 Ambient Air Temp is a mystery to me. It says in the Ford Performance instructions (page 13) to connect it on the engine. But there's no mating connector and I looked everywhere. I asked Ford Performance and didn't get an answer. My engine is running and showing no codes related to that, so not worrying about it. But left the connector just in case.

    C141 CMS RH and LH are for downstream O2 sensors, which are not installed on the crate engine. Page 9 says not used.
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  11. #131
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    Ok, so what I found is that the AAT connector is for a temp display on a mustangs IPC. So not needed for my car.

    The "C141 CMS" connector is for a different type of O2 sensor. (heated vs non heated?). So again, don't think i need to worry about that.

    If anyone knows something different, I'm all ears.

    As far as the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator, I believe it either attaches to the smaller vacuum line on the intake manifold or the throttle body. About the only thing I could find references the throttle body, so I'm going to hook it up to that line.?
    I documented vacuum line connections in my build thread here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post351623. Unfortunately, not covered in any instructions. Also not covered is the vacuum required for the CMCV circuit. You need to address or you'll throw codes related to that. The same post shows how to hook it up.
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  12. #132
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    You're right about C400. That's for a supercharger intercooler. I removed it since I have no intentions of adding a supercharger. But doesn't hurt to leave it if any doubt. C132 Ambient Air Temp is a mystery to me. It says in the Ford Performance instructions (page 13) to connect it on the engine. But there's no mating connector and I looked everywhere. I asked Ford Performance and didn't get an answer. My engine is running and showing no codes related to that, so not worrying about it. But left the connector just in case.

    C141 CMS RH and LH are for downstream O2 sensors, which are not installed on the crate engine. Page 9 says not used.
    Perfect, thanks for confirming it. Figured you'd have the answer.
    The only reference about the AAT sensor was in a mustang forum that I read.
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  13. #133
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    I documented vacuum line connections in my build thread here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post351623. Unfortunately, not covered in any instructions. Also not covered is the vacuum required for the CMCV circuit. You need to address or you'll throw codes related to that. The same post shows how to hook it up.
    Sorry to keep asking noob questions,
    But on the vacuum, you used the tube that you added a "Y" in and connected the throttle body and intake manifold vacuum sources and then ran the line off the Y to the fuel pressure regulator?
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  14. #134
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    Sorry to keep asking noob questions,
    But on the vacuum, you used the tube that you added a "Y" in and connected the throttle body and intake manifold vacuum sources and then ran the line off the Y to the fuel pressure regulator?
    Yes.
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  15. #135
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Ok.... One last thing I need to confirm on the wiring, then I think I got it all figured out...

    The 2 "CAN HS" wires are for aftermarket items, which I won't need.

    The "12V KEY ON" I believe is for aftermarket items also, just will provide power when the key is on "ACC" mode.?.?
    Just wanted to confirm I can wrap those 3 up....

    Otherwise I think i have all the wiring figured out, I ordered a 4 post power distribution block to mount on the firewall for the starter cables like some had suggested.

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  16. #136
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    Ok.... One last thing I need to confirm on the wiring, then I think I got it all figured out...

    The 2 "CAN HS" wires are for aftermarket items, which I won't need.

    The "12V KEY ON" I believe is for aftermarket items also, just will provide power when the key is on "ACC" mode.?.?
    Just wanted to confirm I can wrap those 3 up....

    Otherwise I think i have all the wiring figured out, I ordered a 4 post power distribution block to mount on the firewall for the starter cables like some had suggested.
    Those three wires aren't needed. Cap them, tie off, whatever.
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  17. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    That’s what I assumed too, even though the instructions had me run the hard lines earlier, I was gonna rip those out and run the braided lines back... Figured I would double check before undoing something.
    I did the same thing as you - installed the hard fuel lines and then realized later on that the braided lines would take their place and run all the back to the fuel tank.

  18. #138
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteMeindl View Post
    I did the same thing as you - installed the hard fuel lines and then realized later on that the braided lines would take their place and run all the back to the fuel tank.
    Probably something that seems obvious to an experiences builder but I definitely second guessed it. Braided lines are pretty nice though.
    You learn a lot building this, makes me want to build another one just to put the experience to good use.
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  20. #139
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    I did put the shifter on just to see if I'd have to cut the brace going across the transmission tunnel. It doesn't look like i'll have to, 3rd and 5th don't hit it, although I am going to use a different shifter. But I doubt the new one will be any different.

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  21. #140
    Papa's Avatar
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    Is it the camera angle, or is the shifter installed backwards?
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  22. #141
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Sort of. It’s a mid shift, the shifter I ordered bends slightly back like this.
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  23. #142
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    Gotcha
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  24. #143
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    I have the Gen 3 Coyote in my MKIV Roadster and am experiencing the same error codes that Edward B has. After speaking with Ford and getting nowhere fast, I have reached out to a custom dyno tuner. The one thing Ford told me is that a custom tune is mandatory. After to speaking with the tuner on the phone, he felt confident that he would be able to eliminate the code (eliminate the need for that information in the CPU) through tuning. Since I have the Speedhut sending unit connected and am receiving oil pressure readings I don't see a need for dual readings. Feel free to chime in on this...

    The tuner is at SEMA this week so I have an appointment next Wednesday and will let you guys know the results.

  25. #144
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodneyarcher1 View Post
    I have the Gen 3 Coyote in my MKIV Roadster and am experiencing the same error codes that Edward B has. After speaking with Ford and getting nowhere fast, I have reached out to a custom dyno tuner. The one thing Ford told me is that a custom tune is mandatory. After to speaking with the tuner on the phone, he felt confident that he would be able to eliminate the code (eliminate the need for that information in the CPU) through tuning. Since I have the Speedhut sending unit connected and am receiving oil pressure readings I don't see a need for dual readings. Feel free to chime in on this...

    The tuner is at SEMA this week so I have an appointment next Wednesday and will let you guys know the results.
    I would definitely be interested in hearing the results from that, as I'm sure many others would be too.
    I am going to hook them both up and see what happens using a T fitting.
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  26. #145
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodneyarcher1 View Post
    I have the Gen 3 Coyote in my MKIV Roadster and am experiencing the same error codes that Edward B has. After speaking with Ford and getting nowhere fast, I have reached out to a custom dyno tuner. The one thing Ford told me is that a custom tune is mandatory. After to speaking with the tuner on the phone, he felt confident that he would be able to eliminate the code (eliminate the need for that information in the CPU) through tuning. Since I have the Speedhut sending unit connected and am receiving oil pressure readings I don't see a need for dual readings. Feel free to chime in on this...

    The tuner is at SEMA this week so I have an appointment next Wednesday and will let you guys know the results.
    I too will be interested. For the record, "mandatory custom tune" is the party line from Ford. They've said the same thing on the previous generation Coyote crate motors. They cite use of the non-stock cold air intake as the primary reason. They tried to tell me on my Gen 2 that I would damage the engine without a custom tune if I didn't use the stock air box. When I challenged that, and said the engine would throw codes before damaging itself, they agreed. But still stuck to the custom tune position. I did end up with a Lund custom tune on my Gen 2 and it improved driveability a lot. Pretty much expect the same with the Gen 3. It would seem the oil pressure sensors could be disabled on the Gen 3 like they are on the Gen 2. But I suspect their presence is doing a little more than only feeding gauges, like the Speedhut sensors. Likely the PCM is programmed to act a certain way with bad or unexpected readings. That would have to be taken into account as well. I'll especially be curious if the tuner you're talking to has experience with the Gen 3 Coyote crate. It's a different program than the Mustang. In the early days of the Gen 2, you could find tuners for Mustangs all day long. But not for the crate motor. Lund was one that stepped up.
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  27. #146
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    Good information and I will definitely ask some questions before handing over money.

  28. #147
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Did you mount your headers before or after installing the engine? Coyote engine.
    I was trying to mount them up, but the drivers side doesn’t even look close to fitting in without something moving...
    25th Anniversary Roadster #12 of 25
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  29. #148
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    Did you mount your headers before or after installing the engine? Coyote engine.
    I was trying to mount them up, but the drivers side doesn’t even look close to fitting in without something moving...
    They have to be installed after the engine is in the chassis.

    Jeff

  30. #149
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    Can you use your hoist and lift it an inch or two to give yourself a little room to maneuver?
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  31. #150
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    Can you use your hoist and lift it an inch or two to give yourself a little room to maneuver?
    Think I’m gonna have to do that, I don’t see how it’s possible to get it in without moving it
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  32. #151
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Agree with Jeff, you can't put the headers in until the engine is in the chassis. Also agree it's really tight on the driver's (left) side. Other side isn't bad at all in comparison. One thing you can do that I've found helps a little. Once you have the engine in position in the chassis, leave it attached to the shop crane and remove the left motor mount. You can fit the header into place, and without the motor mount, you have better access to the hardest to reach header bolts from underneath. Then replace the motor mount and drop into the frame mounts. It's a little bit of a pain, and you'll have to decide if it's any easier than just dropping it in and then dealing with the header. But I've found it's slightly less frustrating.

    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    Think I’m gonna have to do that, I don’t see how it’s possible to get it in without moving it
    Believe it or not, it's possible. But agree very tight.
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  33. #152
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Well, I think I’m gonna run no headers on the drivers side....
    I’ve been working on it for 3 hours, tried jacking up one side of the engine. It’s just not close, side of the header hits the drivers foot box before it’s close to the bolts...

    I give up for the day. I’m gonna have to jack up the entire engine.

    Passenger side lines up, pretty difficult to push it in, think the holes are like a MM off but it’ll go on. Might take it off though when I jack up the whole engine.
    25th Anniversary Roadster #12 of 25
    Gen 3 Coyote
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  34. #153
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delta0014 View Post
    Well, I think I’m gonna run no headers on the drivers side....
    I’ve been working on it for 3 hours, tried jacking up one side of the engine. It’s just not close, side of the header hits the drivers foot box before it’s close to the bolts...

    I give up for the day. I’m gonna have to jack up the entire engine.

    Passenger side lines up, pretty difficult to push it in, think the holes are like a MM off but it’ll go on. Might take it off though when I jack up the whole engine.
    Sounds like maybe you're trying to use the engine with the stock exhaust header studs still in place? Don't recall that it's in the instructions anywhere, but I'd recommend you remove them. Agree especially on the driver's side, probably couldn't fit the header between the end of the studs and the footbox. I don't know for sure because I've never tried. It's hard enough without the studs. Some headers, like Gas-N, come with bolts. I know that GP Headers don't. Not sure about the rest. If you need them, the header bolts are M10 x 1.25mm. 25mm long works OK. 30mm works also and engages a little more.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  35. #154
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Sounds like maybe you're trying to use the engine with the stock exhaust header studs still in place? Don't recall that it's in the instructions anywhere, but I'd recommend you remove them. Agree especially on the driver's side, probably couldn't fit the header between the end of the studs and the footbox. I don't know for sure because I've never tried. It's hard enough without the studs. Some headers, like Gas-N, come with bolts. I know that GP Headers don't. Not sure about the rest. If you need them, the header bolts are M10 x 1.25mm. 25mm long works OK. 30mm works also and engages a little more.
    Holy Christ did that just relieve a ton of frustration... Never knew the stock bolts came out. Didn’t see anything in the instructions about it. Pulled them out and the header slid right in. Still working those back bolts, really right working space but it’s at least doable...

    Thanks
    25th Anniversary Roadster #12 of 25
    Gen 3 Coyote
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  36. #155
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    Dyno Tuned Gen 3 Coyote

    So as promised I wanted to share my results of getting my Gen 3 Coyote dyno tuned today.

    First and foremost I wanted to address the known error code relating to the removal of the ford oil pressure sender and the installation of the Speedhut unit. It took all of 5 minutes for him to adjust the setting and remove the error code. So great news, you don't have to t-off the senders and connect both.

    Second, and I'm not sure this is true with all Gen 3 crate motors, the engine was running extremely rich. Because of this I would caution running the motors for an extended period of time or you will be changing plugs. Fortunately mine looked pretty good but I will recheck once I get some real miles on her.

    So after the basic adjustments were done we strapped her to the dyno. I was able to be in the driver's seat which I wasn't expecting but really enjoyed. We did a series of pulls in 1st gear up to 3000 rpm. he continued to dial in the air/fuel ratio and we graduated through 2nd and 3rd gears increasing the throttle pressure and RPM's. The final few pulls were in 3rd gear and WOT. It was loud as hell and a little unerving to do but also exciting. He made me wait until we were inside and he handed me the print out for the numbers. We didn't pull torque as that would require more time and tools. This things pulls hard enough so I didn't feel it was too important.

    So my hope was that it would be 500HP......the final number.....495.1 at 123MPH in 3rd gear!!!!!! I was thrilled. He said once the motor has a few miles on it he thinks it will be right at 500. So of course the conversation turned to how much is enough. He said I should put a flex-fuel kit on it from Advanced Fuel Dynamics. This will allow any combintation of pump gas and E-85. He said they are seeing an additional 60+HP on straight E-85!!!
    I think I will at least wait until I get the body on it and drive a few miles before doing that.

    All in all it was a great day and I am one step closer to being on the road! Here are a couple of pics and a video....because without proof it didn't happen.

    HP 1.jpg
    HP 2.jpg
    https://www.icloud.com/photos/#09hDE...UdVaudEbtd9kmg

  37. #156
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Awesome, thanks for the info.
    25th Anniversary Roadster #12 of 25
    Gen 3 Coyote
    TKO 600 mid-shift


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  38. #157
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Threw the body back on the car to get the doors/trunk/hood to at least fit. The passenger side door, fit pretty good. The drivers door is a struggle to get it to line up with the body. The hood and trunk went pretty well too, just a lot of dust. Threw a tarp over the car to try to cut down on the dust inside of it.
    Don't plan on doing much more of the body work, but wanted to be able to drive it for awhile in gel coat while I wait for my turn in the paint booth.

    That's if I ever get the parts that are on backorder..... Started to get annoyed with the POL list, haven't received a single item from it and it's been over 6 weeks.
    I guess I got the motor mounts, but that's because I bought them on my own.....



    25th Anniversary Roadster #12 of 25
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  39. #158
    Senior Member Garage Guy's Avatar
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    Who is painting your car? Do you know? Do you have a date for paint yet?

  40. #159
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garage Guy View Post
    Who is painting your car? Do you know? Do you have a date for paint yet?
    Plan on bringing it the Jeff Kleiner, but I think he’s booked up till summer. Don’t have a date, but whenever he’ll take it, I’ll bring it to him.
    25th Anniversary Roadster #12 of 25
    Gen 3 Coyote
    TKO 600 mid-shift


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  42. #160
    Senior Member delta0014's Avatar
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    Factory Five sent me some goodies today.
    Got the 25th anniversary seats and side panels. They look nice, high end.

    Also got the chrome exhaust pipes, radiator, driveshaft and transmission support bracket.

    Still got some big items missing like the fuel tank, rear suspensions, steering components.



    25th Anniversary Roadster #12 of 25
    Gen 3 Coyote
    TKO 600 mid-shift


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