Open Design Discussion and What's NEXT!

[0100]

Here you have Brandon, the red one with golden Prodrive P1 wheels (taken from an older model of Impreza)
Hope those are the wheels you where referring to...

So sick!!!!!!!!

Could you do a white one please with gold and or black wheels? If possible could you also lower the ride height so there is no wheel gap. I just want something to dream about.

Oh and before the nay sayers start saying "but that is not a realistic ride height". My 996 is at cup car ride height (tucked almost 1") and I daily and track it like that. The 818 will be my pure track car (trailerd to the track) with a 2-3" ride height.

[05xtsy]

new angle, changed a few things to help it flow better.

[PhyrraM]

I prefer xabier's concept with the subaru lights over the zonda's set up

I do too, if they can look just as home as they do in the drawing.

[Franze]

here is my latest effort

[bbjones121]

I like it a lot. can you do it without the carbon fiber? I know it looks really nice and addes a touch more exotic, but I would be interested to see what it looks like without it, just in case the carbon fiber doesn't make it into the budget.

If they could make those lights, I think they would be sweet, I feel like the stock WRX lights might be too big for a small car like this. Then again, some of the concept cars look good with big headlights. I would run a vertical or slightly curved up strip of LED's on the side of the headlights for the running lights.

new angle, changed a few things to help it flow better.

[bbjones121]

Looks pretty good. I like what you did with the side scoops kinda like the porsche. Body maybe too curvy/flowy though?

It's great we are seeing lots of good ideas coming out. I tried my hand at digitally painting the last line drawing I had posted, and here is what turned out. Right click, view image to see a larger copy.



This one is based on a profile I did awhile back, even before Xabier posted his first sketch, just to address any comparisons that may be made...



Next up, gonna paint the rear.

[Xelerator]

EDIT: Double post

[05xtsy]

[crackedcornish]

I do too, if they can look just as home as they do in the drawing.

I have faith in the FFR boys.....they'll get it right, no matter which design is finally chosen as the winner

[crackedcornish]

oh my, that is nice...can we see it with the hood lowered, so the grille is about half the height it is now?

[05xtsy]

I feel like the stock WRX lights might be too big for a small car like this. Then again, some of the concept cars look good with big headlights.

This is what I have thought from the beginning. In keeping the wrx lights, although they are nice, you really have to fit a design to the light rather than the other way around.

[Franze]

My posts dont seem to go through I have posted on grassroots site

[Franze]

<blockquote><cite>Franze wrote: </cite>

<blockquote>Franze wrote:

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5021/5578656610_39abffca4b_b.jpg" />

here is my latest effort

quick sketch on my lunch break!

</blockquote>

Cheers I will try

</blockquote>

[Steve91T]

[/QUOTE]

That looks great. I actually like the height of the hood. What do you think about adding vents to the hood for radiator exit?

Great job.
Steve

[Steve91T]

My posts dont seem to go through I have posted on grassroots site

Once you get to 10 posts, they'll go through without need approval.

Steve

[GUNS]

Looks good! Can you show this angle in the open air configuration?

[Franze]

Thanks STeve91T

[Dave Smith]

Still playing catch up. The guys are posting last weeks winner (pick of the week) for the GRM contest. Based on alot of the designs that have been posted here AND on the grm site, despite the fact that alot of cool designs have been entered in the contest, many other really cool ones (like these posted) have not yet been submitted. What a really great amount of energy and skill has been seen to date. I dont want to get drippy, but its hard not to be excited about the future of our country when you see firsthand the skills of guys who never get big press. Keep it up guys. We will have a very cool product intro and announce the winners at our summer June 11 Open House.

[Jon A]

05XTSY - Great angle. I prefer the original roof line to this one but this one is cool too (just a little too Lotus Evora for me). Perhaps the lower panels that were shown in carbon fiber could be produced in a contrasting gel-coat (i.e. black) and the upper ones in red or something else. If FFR is able to produce the panels so that they do not require paint, perhaps having a few different color gel-coat options (i.e. black, red, blue, gray, etc.) would be do-able. Another option might be to wrap the lower panels in a faux carbon fiber body wrap to achieve the original look. FFR has produced a carbon fiber body in the past (it was an option on the Roadster for a while) so perhaps they will do it again.

Right now your design and Xabier's design are my two favorites but there are a lot of really great submissions out there... I am really enjoying this competition. I put a pencil to paper in the beginning but, as Clint Eastwood said, "a man's got to know his limitations"... I think I will leave the competition to people with actual talent!

-Jon A.

[Franze]

Would anyone be able to point me in the direction to learn more about gel coat,
Also from a tooling perpective is it better to have large single surfaces or small individual panels, just thinking injection moulding tooling is expensive ,

[05xtsy]

That looks great. I actually like the height of the hood. What do you think about adding vents to the hood for radiator exit?

Great job.
Steve[/QUOTE]

I actually had black vents thrown in, but decided to take them off. Im trying to think of a more classic solution. This is my way of thinking, all the additions that I make to the car I want to age well. The plastic style vents that are seen on the lotus evora for example are not what I want to do. I also don't want to just make slits in the hood...... let me think about it for a bit.

oh my, that is nice...can we see it with the hood lowered, so the grille is about half the height it is now?

The reason the front grill is the size that it is, is because of the part line that runs down the side of the car. I will experiment with it though.

Looks good! Can you show this angle in the open air configuration?

Hahah, on the way, working as fast as I can without missing too much school.

05XTSY - Great angle. I prefer the original roof line to this one but this one is cool too (just a little too Lotus Evora for me). Perhaps the lower panels that were shown in carbon fiber could be produced in a contrasting gel-coat (i.e. black) and the upper ones in red or something else. If FFR is able to produce the panels so that they do not require paint, perhaps having a few different color gel-coat options (i.e. black, red, blue, gray, etc.) would be do-able. Another option might be to wrap the lower panels in a faux carbon fiber body wrap to achieve the original look. FFR has produced a carbon fiber body in the past (it was an option on the Roadster for a while) so perhaps they will do it again.

Right now your design and Xabier's design are my two favorites but there are a lot of really great submissions out there... I am really enjoying this competition. I put a pencil to paper in the beginning but, as Clint Eastwood said, "a man's got to know his limitations"... I think I will leave the competition to people with actual talent!

-Jon A.

- This is exactly why I think it would be wise for the design to have some sort of modular capabilities. Personalization is HUGE, and I think the combination of elegance and modularity is what I am trying to convey.

At the end of the day Jon, you and the others that make suggestions are going to be the ones that refine my design.

My final submission before June 1st will be a 3D solidworks model, but before then, I want to get as much user feedback as possible so please keep it coming.
I want to let everyone know that I am very thankful for the comments and criticism, just having the opportunity to do this is a dream come true.

[Kasmodean]

yeah, this one from Thanas_4 is pretty hot

This is my favorite one so far! I would not paint the front a separate color though.

[Oppenheimer]

...its hard not to be excited about the future of our country when you see firsthand the skills of guys who never get big press. Keep it up guys. We will have a very cool product intro and announce the winners at our summer June 11 Open House.

I've been encouraged to see how many posts over on GRM forum are from _outside_ the US. Seems like FFR is getting a lot of free press already over there. Should help meet the worldwide goal for this car.

[Oppenheimer]

This is my favorite one so far! I would not paint the front a separate color though.

+1, Thanas 4, ditch the black nose. Reminds me of one of those leather bra things being resurrected. Maybe if you made the part of the 'hood' that says 'FIVE' body colored, but left the rest, from that body line down, black?

I really like this design otherwise. To me it seems like a good mix of exotic car while still not looking like it wants to be a Ferrari when it grows up. Its wild, yet still manages to look more car than concept.

[Oppenheimer]

It's great we are seeing lots of good ideas coming out. I tried my hand at digitally painting the last line drawing I had posted, and here is what turned out. Right click, view image to see a larger copy.



This one is based on a profile I did awhile back, even before Xabier posted his first sketch, just to address any comparisons that may be made...



Next up, gonna paint the rear.

Really liking the way this one is shaping up. Agree with someone else that said perhaps too curvey/flowy. Does have obvious comparisons to Xabier, but they are still quite different. I like your 'Targa' rollbar cover. Like how in profile it really flows into the body, and how it looks in the front 3/4 view.

I like the subtle hood vents, not so sure about the sharp line down center of hood. Thinking to tone that down a little.

I'm also wondering how much of the 'too curvey' look is just the 'lighting' in the renderings, as the profile view does not look too curvey at all.

[Gollum]

Going back to the headlights, I agree that fitting the OEM lights can really kill the looks with ease making it an obvious kit car. In reality lights are by far not the most expensive thing in the world, quite the opposite actually. Headlamps (as long as they're not HID which is usually overkill imo) are quite affordable and we shouldn't let a sliver of cost savings dictate the look of the car.

Plus most people agree that subie's look "different" and even the people that like the way they look tend to agree they're a different flavor of style and subaru insists on going against the grain in a lot of ways. Why someone would want to subject themselves to those kind of limitations is beyond me. Their headlights and front end in general isn't their strong suit in my opinion. And I also believe, that like popular hollywood stars, what makes it special makes us think it's prettier than it really is. If the WRX and STI weren't the turbo AWD monsters they are most people would probably never even give them a second look.

The 818 should have it's own identity, and have it's own chance to look good all on it's own, without being subject to parts from a donor car showing on the outside. The GTM is a good example of this. It uses a good amount of vette parts, but doesn't us a single vette part on the outside. And it looks good in it's own right.

[PhyrraM]

Headlamps (as long as they're not HID which is usually overkill imo) are quite affordable

Explain please. I'm missing something here. modern headlights have many injection molded parts and fairly tight tolerances. When you start incorperatin the running lamps and turn signals (like all modern cars) then you get a fair amount of assembly too. I can't see a complete headlight assembly being that cheap to produce, but I could most certainly be wrong.

Now, if your talking off-the-shelf projectors in a panel I can see them not being too big of an issue or expense. But then your introducing an alternate, possibly dated, certainly less integrated, look.

The GTM is a good example of this. It uses a good amount of vette parts, but doesn't us a single vette part on the outside. And it looks good in it's own right.

The GTM IS unique and DOES have a look of it's own. However it's headlights are not one of it's highlights. They look cheap and very comprimised. Even in photos, the clear cover is obviously glued to the fiberglass bodywork with a very wide black paint strip to cover the interface. The back of the headligh buckets have soft curves and lack definition, due to descion to make the buckets one with the body. Exposed projectors would likely have looked better to me.

Not to knock the GTM (it's a great package), but if you can use a OEM headlight AND you can integrate it WELL (big 'if's, I know), I cannot see how wouldn't be cheaper than a FFR marketed headlight and better looking than the GTM.

[Oppenheimer]

I don't think we need to worry about the stock headlights not working well in the final design. If they try, and it looks too kit car or its so obvious what car the lights came from that it makes one think WRX kit, then I'm sure FFR will look to a different solution. They aren't going to compromise the whole car just for the lights. By the same token, if the donor headlights (or other lights) can be incorporated, for a cost savings, I'm sure FFR will do it.

Like Dave has said, every project they've done before has prepared them for this. The GTM probably mroe than most of the others. What they learned from the headlights on that car will be leveraged here.

This is one area I'm not worried about at all.

[Steve91T]

05xtsy: OK, how about this. Do you think it would be possible to have the side vents behind the front wheels be the exit? I agree with the problems of adding plastic or slots in the hood.

Steve

[Gollum]

The concept of basic off the shelf lights set into a sugar scoop is a solid idea that's effective, and is seen on loads of cars. The key to make it look like a really high quality piece is in the cover, and the details around the lights inside the bucket. It's helpful if there's some contrast inside the scoop, and maybe some ledge work. And the glass/plastic cover can't just be a flat piece, but rather rounded and detailed. Again, the idea of the GTM lights is basic, and works. It's only those little details that really set it off as "special".

This just works for me, and most agree it's a beautiful car:


A little more complex, but same basic idea:



Even looking at a ferrari, the actual lights in these could be easily duplicated with off the shelf parts. It's the MOLD WORK that sets it apart, not the lights.


Again, the beauty is in the details, but it all comes down to a wopping $50 worth of bulbs and glass wrapped in a nice package


Even when looking at a lamo light, if you break it down to it's basic parts, pull away the molded parts and there's no real cost in it.




The reason headlights are so "expensive" for OEM units is a combination of the unit being made up of so many parts, being pre-assembled, and then profit margin. We all know that if you were to go to a dealer and buy half your car in new parts you'll spend 4 times the original MSRP rebuilding it. Headlights are no exception. It really costs them slivers of what we pay to make the original, because the actual parts don't cost much. By letting FFR make a good molded part and spending a little bit of money there, and then letting us spend just a little more on lamps, then we get a much higher quality part that fits the look of the car, instead of trying to make a light designed for a different look work in a different application.

[PhyrraM]

Gollum, I completely agree with everything said and shown. But, as far as I have seen, it has never been pulled off successfully by anybody but an OEM. If FFR can approach that level of 'quality' (for lack of a better term), I'm all for it. In fact, might even prefer it. Until then I think the designs with OEM, or more raw, headlight designs seem more practicle to produce.

[wjfawb0]

Unfortunately I know a single 05 STI headlight assembly is close to $800 from subaru. I like the 04-05 and 06-07 WRX headlights myself. Most of the popular designs so far don't appear to have a front end slope that would accomodate them very well (except the one actually using the 06-07). I'm not so hung up on the appearances of the kit cars as much as their functionality and performance. If I can't drive it regularly, I don't want it in my garage.

[Xelerator]

EDIT: Double post

[bbjones121]

I completely agree to some of these comments in regard to just making them match a car style instead of the other way around. There are so many projector housings available out there for retrofitting. Get on ebay, craigslist, there are even company's that just sell projectors from cars. If the 818 just had a nice bucket cover and chrome accent, shelf, etc.., each person could chose a projector assembly to fit behind. The cover is very important. It can not create any glare or reflection. It would be nice if the underside of the cover was coated with an anti-reflective and UV blocking film.

[bbjones121]

Love it 05xtsy.

[bbjones121]

Now designs are starting to get exotic. This looks great.

[BrandonDrums]

Gollum, I completely agree with everything said and shown. But, as far as I have seen, it has never been pulled off successfully by anybody but an OEM. If FFR can approach that level of 'quality' (for lack of a better term), I'm all for it. In fact, might even prefer it. Until then I think the designs with OEM, or more raw, headlight designs seem more practicle to produce.

^^^he's right. Either go way basic or use something pre-made. Upon looking through eBay, there are several OEM headlights that look cool that can be had for cheap. Subaru headlights unfortunately aren't super cheap and since the donor years have different lamps it would be difficult to just offer one year when it's so pricey to buy any of them if you don't have the right year donor.

So either a good looking OEM design or something really really raw that's not going for a custom "OEM" molded look like a TVR. Just lenses in the body.

[BrandonDrums]

These 2 look really good from a modded OEM perspective. Both are from toyotas, who knew?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SONAR...ht_5139wt_1302


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SONAR...ht_5139wt_1302

[bbjones121]

I think the TVR look is nice, but it shouts kit car to me.

[Franze]

<blockquote>Franze wrote:

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5021/5578656610_39abffca4b_b.jpg" />

here is my latest effort

quick sketch on my lunch break!

</blockquote>

Cheers I will try