Power Brakes for Mk4 w/Coyote

[tbl100]

Hi,

I want to add power brake assist to my build. Through the message board here I have found Whitby Motorcars vacuum system and a little about Hydro-Boost. Can I get some recommendations for these types of systems pros and cons. I know little about Hydro-Boost. From what I have read it sounds like Hydro-Boost may cost more and more complex to install but may be more compact and take up less space. The Coyote engine takes up a lot of space in the engine bay. Has anyone installed either types in an Mk4 with Coyote engine? I am upgrading to Wilwood brakes as well.

Thanks for your help. I'm very new to all of this but I'm having a blast learning and building this car.

Thank you,
Tim

oh, btw, off topic but how do you automatically add your car info at the bottom of each post? I see some of you have this. I'd like to add to my messages as well. thanks.

[Garage Guy]

The hydroboost system mounts in front of the driver side toe box it would not be competing for any room with the coyote. But it runs off of power steering which on the coyote is on the passenger side, so the lines would have to be routed over there. I do not know if it will work with the coyote so I'm interested in seeing the replies to this post. I currently have it on my MK4 was also contemplating putting it on my 25th which has a coyote going in it so very curious if anyone has done this also.

[michael everson]

I just finished a Coyote with vacuum power brakes. They don't interfere with each other at all. Lots of room for both.
I used a Mustang pedal box, 87-93 Mustang booster, 1994 Cobra master, 13 inch Cobra front brakes and rear IRS brakes from FFR.
Also a remote reservoir from a Mercury Villager mini van.
Mike

[edwardb]

I've done both vacuum and hydroboost power brakes. Coyote or not doesn't matter. The engine and power brakes don't compete for the same space. For a power source, vacuum is the easiest assuming the engine has enough vacuum. Most do, including the Coyote where Ford runs a vacuum boost brake setup with that engine. Depending on the size of the booster though, might need a small frame mod. The Whitby kit addresses that. Hydroboost is a hydraulic setup, so needs a hydraulic pump. Typically also plumbed along with power steering, but wouldn't have to be. The hydroboost setup is more compact, but a little more complex to install in my experience. Plus typically is more expensive.

But the somewhat larger issue is the now basically standard Wilwood pedal box is not set up for power brakes. Mike mentions using a Mustang pedal box, which does simplify things. But may not be the direction some builders want to go. I personally haven't tried to install a Mustang pedal box in the current frame that's intended for the Wilwood box, so can't comment if that's easy or requires mods. Adding power brakes to the supplied Wilwood pedal box setup means not using the supplied front and back master cylinders and balance bar setup. Instead the pedal box needs to be modded with a pushrod and a conventional dual master cylinder plus booster mounted on front of the footbox. Mike Forte is one vendor who can do the mod. Another option is a kit from Whitby Motorcars in NC. Nothing about this is particularly complicated or difficult. But it's not insignificant. Plus eliminates the balance bar which can be very useful for adjusting the proper front/rear brake bias. I've done power brakes on a couple builds and agree it's nice. But last two have been manual. Once you get used to the heavier pedal, it's fine IMO. You'll get lots of opinions on this topic.

[michael everson]

Edward. The mustang pedal boxes (87-2004 I believe) are a direct bolt in and used in donor builds. I purposely use these in all my builds for several reasons.
ease of installation
power brake ready
no brake fluid inside of cockpit
reliable and maintenance free.
makes running brake lines so much easier.
The only down side is it make it more difficult to do a hydraulic clutch.
There is literally thousands of FFR Roadsters with Mustang pedal boxes in them. It was the only choice until FFR came out with the complete kit.
Mike

[edwardb]

Edward. The mustang pedal boxes (87-2004 I believe) are a direct bolt in and used in donor builds. I purposely use these in all my builds for several reasons.
ease of installation
power brake ready
no brake fluid inside of cockpit
reliable and maintenance free.
makes running brake lines so much easier.
The only down side is it make it more difficult to do a hydraulic clutch.
There is literally thousands of FFR Roadsters with Mustang pedal boxes in them. It was the only choice until FFR came out with the complete kit.
Mike

Thanks Mike. Appreciate the explanation. While nowhere close to your level of experience (today's understatement...) I'm familiar with the Mustang pedal box, and its history, having used one in my Mk3 build with vacuum power brakes. Have done two Mk4's and a Coupe with the Wilwood pedal box. One with hydroboost (the Forte modded version) and two with the standard Wilwood dual MC setup and manual. That's what I'm driving now and am very happy with BTW. What I wasn't sure about was using the Mustang pedal box in the Mk4 since I see so many builds are using the Wilwood pedal box. But from your explanation, plus what's on Factory Five's website (should have checked there...) I see it's still a bolt-in option for the Mk4. So thanks for pointing that out and I'll be sure to explain better in the future when necessary. One of the positives of the Wilwood pedal box is how easy it is to install a hydraulic clutch, which I've done now three times. Can be done with a Mustang box but more difficult as you point out. I've had no issues with the Wilwood boxes and how they're set up, but your points are valid. If something should go wrong, not a friendly place to work with nearly everything inside the footbox. And agree the Mustang pedal box is by far easier if you want to do power brakes. Everything has trade-offs so each builder has to decide I guess.

[rich grsc]

What about the elephant in the room.........you have paid extra for Wilwood brakes, why would you need or want power boost? Many discussions I've seen has said that with power the Wilwoods are over powered and extremely sensitive?

[frd2]

I installed the Whitby system in my MK4 Coyote - but was the base kit so I also used a mustang pedal box. Piece of cake to install and works well, But wish I had planned ahead better and done hydroboost. I ended up installing power steering as well, and decided it was easier to use the EHPS version vs a pump on the motor belt system. (I used the pump from a Toyota but other options exist).

At the end of the day both work well and no regrets.

I bet you could sell the F5 Wilwood pedal box and brake system to someone who bought a base kit to help pay for the power brake set up.

Greg

[Garage Guy]

I was thinking about going with Power on May 25th but your point makes real good sense. Will probably just go with the Dual master cylinder Wilwood. If I hate it someday I can always upgrade. What else is a cobra owner to do in the winter anyway.

[dbo_texas]

What about the elephant in the room.........you have paid extra for Wilwood brakes, why would you need or want power boost? Many discussions I've seen has said that with power the Wilwoods are over powered and extremely sensitive?

That was also my first thought...from everything I've read on the forums, adding power to the big Wilwood brakes is not a good idea (and not necessary). So I was slightly confused by that bit.

[tbl100]

That was also my first thought...from everything I've read on the forums, adding power to the big Wilwood brakes is not a good idea (and not necessary). So I was slightly confused by that bit.

I'm trying to figure all this out. After reading all the posts I'm thinking I'll just go without power for now and see how it goes and keep learning about it. Sounds like it will be fine. If I need it in the future I can always add it later. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself. So much to learn.

Thanks everyone for your posts. I really appreciate this forum.

[michael everson]

The last 2 roadsters I built had Wilwoods and power brakes. Both customers love them. I have checked in with both from time to time and neither would change it. Just did my third but its not on the road yet. I liken the power wilwoods to the Carbon Ceramic brakes on my corvette. A little touchy at parking lots speeds but after that they are perfect. You get used to them pretty quick.
Mike

[tbl100]

The last 2 roadsters I d had Wilwoods and power brakes. Both customers love them. I have checked in with both from time to time and neither would change it. Just did my third but its not on the road yet. I liken the power wilwoods to the Carbon Ceramic brakes on my corvette. A little touchy at parking lots speeds but after that they are perfect. You get used to them pretty quick.
Mike

Hi Mike, what type of brake assist systems did you put on the ones you added power brakes too? Can you elaborate on the set ups?
Thanks,
Tim

[tbl100]

Hi Mike, what type of brake assist systems did you put on the ones you added power brakes too? Can you elaborate on the set ups?
Thanks,
Tim

Hi Mike, I see you posted one of the setup in an earlier post. Thanks.