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Thread: Engine trans run kits

  1. #1
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    Engine trans run kits

    Any one have any experience with used engine run kits? I am going to get a coyote for my coupe when the time comes. I am looking for a more economical way to go about it instead of spending $15 k for a new kit. Some auto yards are offering low mileage engine trans kits that include computer, ignition, tank etc that allow the engine to run on a palette for between $8-9k. I purchased a complete kit for my coupe so I already have much of what I need. If I bought one of these used kits it appears that I could save a bunch..no starter, alternator, belts, plugs, computer, or control pack. I could even pull the fuel pump from the tank they include with the used kit.
    Any words of wisdom? I would love a new kit from Forte...but this looks like it could be much more economical.

  2. #2
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    No question there's money to be saved with used versus new. But how much of an engine/trans pallet like that can be used depends on several factors. Easy/minor points first, no plugs or belts are required for a new engine. But that's trivial. Yes you would need a starter and alternator for new. Plus a low profile oil pan and pickup in either case. But wiring and computer? Depends on your experience level and creativity to use what comes with the pallet. Not easy and IMO you'll easily earn the cost of the control pack. Discussed recently in this thread. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ull-out-wiring. Several have used the Mustang manual transmission in these builds, but that's not without challenges either. Ratios are a little different. But the bigger issue is the shifter location. It has to be relocated. I've seen several fabricated by builders. Or there's at least one you can purchase, but it's not cheap and offsets a significant portion of the savings. I doubt very much whether the tank or pump would be usable. The tank won't fit, and the Mustang pump is a computer controlled on-demand returnless style. These builds are typically a constant running return style. That's what the crate motor control pack supports.

    Don't mean to be negative and apologize if it sounds like it. But the fact is these aren't cheap builds. You'll have to decide whether the few thousand you'll save for used versus new, as a percentage of the total build cost, is really worth it. Especially if the savings mean making compromises. At the very least there's added work and make sure you're up for that.
    Last edited by edwardb; 11-08-2019 at 09:26 PM.
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    I've used them on a couple of projects. I've been lucky both times, and received good components.

    You do end up with a bunch of stuff you can't use, and end up throwing away.

    But, you gain all the little bolts, brackets, wires, and hoses that don't come with a new engine.

    When it first arrives in your garage, do a leak down and compression test to see where you're at.
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    Im with Ed. Don't so it. The money you save will be eaten up in hours of frustration. Not to mention now you have a used drivetrain of unknown origin.
    at $9000 used you are saving at best $6000.00
    you still need the following parts

    Oil pan and pick up $600.00
    Control pack at $1600.00
    New mounts at $200.00
    New gas pedal if not included $200.00
    new shifter. one vendor was selling one for $800.00 I believe.

    As you can see you eat up your savings really fast.
    If you buy the drivetrain through FFR it all comes in one nice package assembled and ready to go.
    Mike

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    Excellent post Edwardb!

  7. #6
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael everson View Post
    Im with Ed. Don't so it. The money you save will be eaten up in hours of frustration. Not to mention now you have a used drivetrain of unknown origin.
    at $9000 used you are saving at best $6000.00
    you still need the following parts

    Oil pan and pick up $600.00
    Control pack at $1600.00
    New mounts at $200.00
    New gas pedal if not included $200.00
    new shifter. one vendor was selling one for $800.00 I believe.

    As you can see you eat up your savings really fast.
    If you buy the drivetrain through FFR it all comes in one nice package assembled and ready to go.
    Mike
    I have seen these packages on instagram sitting on a pallet running. I am not doubting you but can you explain why you would need a new control pack and not be able to use the one that it is running on the pallet with?
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  8. #7

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    The pallet engines are likely using the stock fuel system stock gauge cluster etc. I have heard (no first hand knowledge) that these pallets will not run without some of the mustang stuff that wont fit in the cobra.
    Mike

  9. #8
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    To add to what Mike said, typically those pallets are advertised with the PATS (Passive Antitheft System) disabled or bypassed. A pretty common hack, but only the start. The stock PCM is expecting specific Ford modules to be in place in order to function. Plus the incompatible fuel pump setup which I previously mentioned. At least for our builds based on my experience and observation. It's also possible to go aftermarket wiring and PCM, which several on both forums have talked about. But this is where I get back to the are you experienced and knowledgeable enough question. Many of these builds are completed by builders with little/no experience. Wiring is often cited as the most difficult part of the build. While I don't consider the Coyote with the Ford Performance controls pack to be particularly difficult, many struggle with it. Between the gauges, the Ron Francis harness, and the Ford Performance harness, often get really lost or at the very least struggle. Throw an OE harness and PCM into the mix, or an aftermarket setup, with comparatively limited instructions and forum help, doesn't get any better. Just a few months ago, on the other forum, a builder documented working for an extended time to get a Coyote with an OE harness and PCM running. Gave up. I'm not saying it can't be done. But just make sure you are the right person to attempt it. I know budgets are an important part of most builds. But time has value too.

    And no one yet has mentioned the 2 year warranty a new Coyote has from Ford. For the most part, it's a bulletproof engine for our builds, and extremely unlikely you'd need to exercise the warranty. But nice to have that safety blanket. Many used engines come with some type of limited warranty. But I wouldn't put it on the same level, especially since you're starting with a used engine with usually an unknown past. Resale value is another consideration. New will always have more residual value than used. But most don't want to talk about resale value at the start of a build. Again, not saying used isn't a viable option. It's just not something I've chosen for the reasons I've shared, which not everyone will agree with. That's fine and I respect those who are successful. Just make the decision taking everything into account.
    Last edited by edwardb; 11-09-2019 at 03:21 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread and Video
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  10. #9
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    Thank you all for the guidance. Warranty and resale value are things that have not even entered my mind at this point. I can wire up an old Engine/car. Integration of the Ron francis harness with the factory might be too much for me. Definitely a lot of things that need to be considered before making any decisions. I appreciate all the well thought out guidance you all provided.
    Much appreciated.

  11. #10
    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    All of the above is why I didnít do a Voodoo engine. I very badly wanted to but it would have been a gamble, an open check book and a world of frustration
    Gen 3 65 Coupe #138 - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - Engine: Roush 427SRE - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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