So for some background story, in July my wife and I were at Barret Jackson in CT and as always I make it a requirement to walk by and look and chat at the cars and employees at the Factory Five booth cause it has always been a dream of mine to build one of these machines from craddle to the grave. I have never owned or build a project to this extent however do have experience in building cars. First project was a foxbody mustang which went from stock to 912 rwhp when complete; I was able to drive to the track 2 hours away and drive back which I was pretty proud of (ran 10.50's @ 142 mph on 650 rwhp tune, never ran it with 912 tune). Second project was a 2008 shelby gt500 which wasn't as indepth as the foxbody, however with upgraded exhaust, kennebell supercharger at 20 lbs and clutch car was running 10.50's on 18's with drag radials. Returning back to the barrett Jackson story, Factory five had a generous sale going on with a roadster at the time with most of the additions which I desired: IRS, Coyote option, headers, front/rear sway bars, mickey thompson with 305's on the rear all for a generous deal. Talking to my wife and telling her how much a good deal it was she surprised me with the reply of "so buy it" (she's amazing). Long story short, I was unable to bring that specific roadster home that day and picked up the car last friday on the 8th.
Plans for the build are:
Coyote (with either aftermarket cams or bolt on a whipple or roush supercharger)
TKO600
drop trunk option
battery relocation
Wilwood Brakes front and rear
hydrualic clutch
air conditioning
heater/defroster
removable soft top
i'm sure I am missing some and will add as they come to me
Below are pictures of the body buck. I used the dimensions and plans from FAQ section of FFCars.com https://www.ffcars.com/forums/106-ge...body-buck.html. I still need to add support beams on the sides, i'm not sure how homedepot does their quality assurance inspections with the wood that they buy, but a good handfull of the 2x4's that I purchased were significantly warped. I should have done a better inspection upon purchase, however it is difficult getting all the supplies when you are also responsible for a 16 month old while at HD.
This will be a pretty slow moving project due to my job and the typical long hours and ofcourse always got to set time for the important things such as family and our relatively new addition to the family. I look forward to meeting some new friends and joining this new community and am excited for what's in store.
For my first question, I am putting an order for black rivets, nutserts and cleco's and quickly became overwhelmed with the amount of options there are with 1/8" rivets and nutserts while on McMaster.
Just to verify, 316 stainless steel domed head blind rivets are what I want to order, correct? secondly, for the material thickness would they be for 0.04-0.118" or 0.119-0.196". Would I be putting in a different order for rivets used for panel-to-panel vs panel-frame due to thickness differences of the frame?
some guidance and experience would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
welcome! You bring far more experience than I did when I started. Looking forward to following along.
Personally I used 0.063-0.125 for the shallow options (panel to panel). I used the black rivets from McMaster as well for visible sections and they were the same manufacturer as supplied with the kit(adp). I used .313-.375 for some thicker sections such as the FFR metals firewall (.09) to the frame. Otherwise I used the kit supplied rivets for everything else as they get covered with insulation, leather or carpet.
As for rivet nuts, I am using SS 8-32 and 10-32’s in a few places and you’ll get varying experiences with all of the above.
Originally Posted by nick7405
For my first question, I am putting an order for black rivets, nutserts and cleco's and quickly became overwhelmed with the amount of options there are with 1/8" rivets and nutserts while on McMaster.
Just to verify, 316 stainless steel domed head blind rivets are what I want to order, correct? secondly, for the material thickness would they be for 0.04-0.118" or 0.119-0.196". Would I be putting in a different order for rivets used for panel-to-panel vs panel-frame due to thickness differences of the frame?
some guidance and experience would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Welcome! You've obviously got a lot of experience, and you've tapped into a wealth of knowledge on this forum. And, you don't know slow ... check my build number. Whatever works to keep you happy, and a lot folks find they miss the build part once the car is on the road. So whatever build pace is all good. It's great having another person join the fun, and it'll be great to follow along as you make progress.
I remember finding an explanation of the dizzying number of options for nutserts and from there being able to pick ones that were most suited for our use. Same sizes that Mike just mentioned. I'll look for the link tonight if someone hasn't answered your question by then.
Cheers,
-- John
MK4 #7838: IRS 3.55 TrueTrac T5z Dart 347
The drawing is from ~7th grade, mid-1970s
Meandering, leisurely build thread is here
Thanks for the feedback. After spending probably way to much time reading about nutserts and rivets I went ahead and ordered both. Hopefully this information will help, but the aluminum panels measured ~0.05" so the nutserts ordered were from McMaster and are: stainless steel twist-resistant rivet nuts for a material thickness of 0" to 0.13" with a threadsize of 10-32 (part no. 97467a723). These nutserts should work on all the aluminum panels, however I didn't measure the thickness of the frame so I don't know if the frame is less than 0.13". If the frame is thicker than .1" the proper nutsert part no will be 97467a724 which is for 0.1" to 0.25". I choose stainless steel for the corrision resistant properties and the fact they are twist resistance so they wont turn when trying to tighten a screw into it. Hope this helps
Below are pictures of the lock wire for the Wilwood brakes. Feedback would be greatly appreciated.
It took a handful of trial and errors to get the lock wire as I expected. The left hand bolt has the wire going around the bolt clockwise on the outside and the wire going around the bolt head is routed underneath the wire that went through the bolt head. Then the twist from bolt head to bolt head was conducted clockwise, with the wire looping around the bolt head and under the wire through the bolt head allows/helps the wire maintain at the base of the head and not twist or move up around the head. with the right bolt head, there is a wire the loops around the outside counter clockwise and also is routed under the wire that is routed through the bolt head. however when I did the pigtail I was having issues with the wire maintaining at the base of the head so I twisted the wire counter clockwise. this allowed the wire being routed on the outside to be routed under the wire thatwent through the head and for it to 'anchor' it down.
I hope that explanation makes since and helps somebody that has never lock wired anything. This was my first time and am fairly pleased with the results.
Thanks boyd, that was my first attempt at safety wires and I very happy with the results. I did measure the turns per inch and they were right at the maximum recommendation of 12 per inch. The recommended was 8 to 12 per inch IAW one of the tech manuals at work.
As far as an update, didn't get as much done as I wanted due to family, thanksgiving and black friday shopping with the wife. I did get the front wilwood Installes which was straightforward. As far as shimming, both left and right calipers took 1 .016" shim and two .032". I ended up using one of the wifes sewing kit rulers which allowed a nice accurate measurement then just eyeing it or with a standard ruler.
If I remember right "Someone please chime in" you are not supposed to use Teflon tape on brake line fittings
If you are build the car in CT the DMV web site has good information about composite cars and relating to this but no mention of Teflon tape
This weekend got the rear wilwood brakes installed. overall the install was straight forward and quality of the product is obviously very robust and impressive. The only issue with the install between the front and rear brakes was that some of the hardware provided on the rear brakes did not fit. The washers supplied to lock the caliper down on the brake bracket was the wrong size (too small); a quick trip to hardware store fixed it obviously.
For the righthand side, the recommended shims for. both the brake bracket and caliper was used and needed no deviations; one .029" shim for the brake bracket allowing the rotor to be centered in the caliper and two .035" shims for the caliper ensuring 100% contact of the pad with the rotor.
Lefthand side required deviations for both the brake bracket and the caliper. For the brake bracket removed the recommended .029" shim to center the rotor in the caliper and removed one .035" shim from the caliper leaving only one remaining ensuring full pad contact with the rotor. 20191207_124846.jpg
This week was productive, got both the drivers and passenger F-panels drilled and fitted as well as the drivers side front panel footbox. No issues and they fit great.
Started assembling the pedal box and painted the clutch & brake switch tabs as well as the pedal box mount. The kit did not have the 1 1/4" bolt to bolt the clutch quadrant the pedal box so a quick trip to the hardware store. The paint is currently drying so will be able to finish that up during the week hopefully.
I also ordered the thicker firewall from FFMetal which came in and fitted and drilled however I messed up with the markings and holes I drilled so I will be ordering another one. However the quality and difference from the supplied factory five firewall vs the FFMetal is impressive and definitely recommend the firewall.
Today was the start of my holiday leave so hopefully I will be able to get some work done on the car before flying down for the holidays.
So far assembled the pedal box with the master cylinders and installed it on the car. It's suppose to be like 10 degrees out tomorrow so not sure how much im going to get done, but the plan is to complete the steering.
One bad thing is when installing the pedal box, the painted parts scratched way too easy. I don't know If it was due to the attempt of painting in a non heated garage in Maine winter but after everything gets fitted the plan im leaning towards is to just powder coat everything. If anybody had tips please let me know. I'll post pictures tomorrow.
So I recieved the ffmetal firewall again and that is properly fitted and drilled
I am now into the passenger floorboard and have a question: is it normal to have to cut or open the e brake hole more to allow the flange for the brake bracket to not sit against the aluminum panel? I attached photos 20191227_212347.jpg20191227_212329.jpg20191229_182544.jpg
Second question is you only rivet the passenger floor to the square tubing or floor panel...not the circular tubing. This is correct?
Last edited by nick7405; 12-29-2019 at 06:27 PM.
FFR Roadster: Received 11/18/19: BluePrint 427w, TKO600, Glenn's performance fuel system, IRS, Wilwood Brakes, Sniper XFlow and many more
Hey Nick, you didn’t ask for this advice, but I thought I would throw it out there as it appears you’re dealing with the complexities of the forum picture upload. I assume you are using MS Windows, if you are, open your pictures in a picture viewer first and rotate to the correct orientation and then close it. For some reason that will prevent it from rotating when you upload. Hope that helps.
I don’t remember having to make that opening bigger, it wouldn’t surprise me if you did need to though, what I do remember is making the hole smaller at the time of carpeting as it is oversized.
I thought I read that too in the manual, or somewhere, that you shouldn’t rivet to the 4” round tube. It is actually okay and unavoidable to rivet or tap the tube at some point.
Last edited by GTBradley; 12-27-2019 at 11:15 PM.
Bradley
Build thread - Mk4, Coyote, IRS, Wilwood brakes, old-style soft top and accessories.
The distance between "finished" and finished is literally infinite.
Hey Nick, you didn’t ask for this advice, but I thought I would throw it out there as it appears you’re dealing with the complexities of the forum picture upload. I assume you are using MS Windows, if you are, open your pictures in a picture viewer first and rotate to the correct orientation and then close it. For some reason that will prevent it from rotating when you upload. Hope that helps.
I don’t remember having to make that opening bigger, it wouldn’t surprise me if you did need to though, what I do remember is making the hole smaller at the time of carpeting as it is oversized.
I thought I read that too in the manual, or somewhere, that you shouldn’t rivet to the 4” round tube. It is actually okay and unavoidable to rivet or tap the tube at some point.
Thanks for the heads up, I usually post from my phone and never noticed. I'll try to fix them tonight
FFR Roadster: Received 11/18/19: BluePrint 427w, TKO600, Glenn's performance fuel system, IRS, Wilwood Brakes, Sniper XFlow and many more
Hey Nick, you didn’t ask for this advice, but I thought I would throw it out there as it appears you’re dealing with the complexities of the forum picture upload. I assume you are using MS Windows, if you are, open your pictures in a picture viewer first and rotate to the correct orientation and then close it. For some reason that will prevent it from rotating when you upload. Hope that helps.
I don’t remember having to make that opening bigger, it wouldn’t surprise me if you did need to though, what I do remember is making the hole smaller at the time of carpeting as it is oversized.
I thought I read that too in the manual, or somewhere, that you shouldn’t rivet to the 4” round tube. It is actually okay and unavoidable to rivet or tap the tube at some point.
well that took awhile figuring out but all the pictures are fixed...thanks for the heads up
FFR Roadster: Received 11/18/19: BluePrint 427w, TKO600, Glenn's performance fuel system, IRS, Wilwood Brakes, Sniper XFlow and many more
Update for the week; got the passenger floorboard, passenger side vertical piece below the door and the same on the drivers side. Additionally was able to do the driver foot box floor.
I have the drivers inner footbox then on to the fuel tank install. Ket me know what you guys think so far
oh yeah!! I ran out of my 50 cleco's and had to order more
Lastly, while I'm waiting on the fuel tank and fuel tank cover to be shipped I'll be dropping the pumpkin and will be painting it with POR15. Anybody have recommendations on best way to drop am installed rear end?
Last edited by nick7405; 12-30-2019 at 08:12 AM.
FFR Roadster: Received 11/18/19: BluePrint 427w, TKO600, Glenn's performance fuel system, IRS, Wilwood Brakes, Sniper XFlow and many more
Below is the gap that I have on the drivers top inside panel for the footbox. Gap is large and part of me says continue and just silicon the gap later and other part of me says create a space to close the gap. What are your recommendations? Is this normal?
I didn't have a gap that large. In fact, I had to put some tape on the firewall so that the top panel wouldn't scratch it when squeezing it in there. Are you sure that all of your other panels for the box are aligned correctly?
I didn't have a gap that large. In fact, I had to put some tape on the firewall so that the top panel wouldn't scratch it when squeezing it in there. Are you sure that all of your other panels for the box are aligned correctly?
That's whay I thought, that it was due to panels not being aligned correctly, but the only alignment that effects forward to aft is the metal panel in front of the pedal box. The gap is the same if I remove the inner panel completely.
FFR Roadster: Received 11/18/19: BluePrint 427w, TKO600, Glenn's performance fuel system, IRS, Wilwood Brakes, Sniper XFlow and many more
My panel fit was tight here, too. Maybe take some measurements on the panel and call Factory Five to check? Those are CNC-cut panels so doesn't seem likely that there's a big error there.
Mk4 #8861 Complete kit. Delivered: 27 Apr 2016, currently a roller.
Gen-2 Coyote, clutch, TKO600, midshift, and solid axle from Forte. Many pieces from Breeze and Replicarparts.
I have attached photos of the front brake lines. If you guys can look and give feedback please let me know. Anyways I think it turned out good.
Fyi for those going through the assembly guide the provided path in the pictures won't work with the 60jnch brake lines. You will be about 6 inches short
Attached are photos with were I am on progress. I have spent the last week wiring the dash together. I'll get a better photo with how everything is set up but I am glad how ot turned out.
Also the powdercoating turned out amazing and am very happy with the results. I still have the trunk panels and the random little pieces together for powder coating.
For questions
First....the dash is from bcc so there is a frame for the inserts on the backside that makes it thicker than the passenger, will this be a problem in the future with body fitment and assuming I just need to add a spacer on the passenger side against the 3/4 hoop dash bar so its straight across
Second....how much of the wiring can I successfully do with riveting and all without having the coyote harness?
Third....any feedback on anything is greatly appreciated
Fourth, how are people mounting their dash to the hoop, I plan on getting the dash upholstered so i dont wanna screw it from the outside, seems tacky.
FFR Roadster: Received 11/18/19: BluePrint 427w, TKO600, Glenn's performance fuel system, IRS, Wilwood Brakes, Sniper XFlow and many more
Here is the wiring with the dash, few changes from this morning is that I removed the ground wires from the dash harness connector and am routing them to a grounding bar that will be attached on the frame behind the dash. This was to simplify the harness with cleaning it up aswell as I didn't care for how it daisy chained everything into the same 16 gauge wire.
Last edited by nick7405; 04-06-2020 at 05:20 AM.
FFR Roadster: Received 11/18/19: BluePrint 427w, TKO600, Glenn's performance fuel system, IRS, Wilwood Brakes, Sniper XFlow and many more
Made some progress over the last few months, made some tweaks to the wiring harness and attached them permanently with zip tie mounts that are secured via rivets. Also riveted the fuel system finally after starring at it for a few weeks lol. All lights are the weather proof connections from breeze automotive. Also from breeze got their battery relocation and radiator support and hinge kit which are in place.
While I'm waiting for the sound deadenner to arrive I mocked up and got the seats installed with breeze mount kit. 20200808_083727.jpg 20200808_084616.jpg
FFR Roadster: Received 11/18/19: BluePrint 427w, TKO600, Glenn's performance fuel system, IRS, Wilwood Brakes, Sniper XFlow and many more
Looks great so far. Is there a reason you went with powder coating on all of your panels instead of Lizard skin or another kind of sound deadening product? Curious!
FFR MKIV Complete Kit - Blueprint 427 TKO 600 - IRS 3.55 Center section and Spindles.
Your gauge layout looks great. I almost did the same with the metal boards but never did.
In regard to first start, after checking all of my connections for the millionth time, the biggest concerns were fuel pressure/leaks and oil pressure. Just make sure your engine is properly primed with good oil pressure and let the fuel pump run for a moment before igniting so that you can identify any leaks. Have friends/family involved so that they can identify leaks as well. Have a fire extinguisher at the ready and roll outside before starting if you can. And oh, don't forget the adult beverage to celebrate once that beast comes to life! But sounds like you've been here before so I'm sure all will go well.
Your gauge layout looks great. I almost did the same with the metal boards but never did.
In regard to first start, after checking all of my connections for the millionth time, the biggest concerns were fuel pressure/leaks and oil pressure. Just make sure your engine is properly primed with good oil pressure and let the fuel pump run for a moment before igniting so that you can identify any leaks. Have friends/family involved so that they can identify leaks as well. Have a fire extinguisher at the ready and roll outside before starting if you can. And oh, don't forget the adult beverage to celebrate once that beast comes to life! But sounds like you've been here before so I'm sure all will go well.
Thanks for the tips, I am still contemplating on the last gauge, I have narrowed it down to fuel pressure or air fuel ratio. Most likely fuel pressure since I have a sniper with the handheld.
Waiting on the cool tubes to arrive from boig and should be really close to the start.
FFR Roadster: Received 11/18/19: BluePrint 427w, TKO600, Glenn's performance fuel system, IRS, Wilwood Brakes, Sniper XFlow and many more