Is a basically stock 302 too little motor? Subsequent build: ITS ALIVE SEE VIDEO

[narly1]

It's my birthday next Friday and I asked for pushrods!

Sigh, even these are on backorder now...looking at early to mid June....

[narly1]

Getting desperate for things to do LOL. This oil pan that I picked up off of Kijiji was missing paint in a few spots and I had some engine enamel left over so...

20210410_172908[1].jpg

[johnnybgoode]

Sigh, even these are on backorder now...looking at early to mid June....

Wow. Is that from Summit? Really sucks to have to wait that long. I feel your pain in how tough it is to get parts in Canada. Scott

[narly1]

Yes, Summit. Funny thing is that the product page said 3 in stock but then when I went to place an order....backordered.

[narly1]

Found several eBay sellers who have the pushrods I need in stock. So cancelled my order with Summit. As soon as I get confirmation from them I place an order with one of the other guys. 7 weeks is too long to wait just for pushrods.

Either that or my cancellation will "motivate" them to free-up the ones only available for US customers to us Canadians.

[Mike DiGiorgio]

i really don't think so. and if you feel the need for an equally economical but more potent 302, look into a later explorer engine that left the factory with gt40 heads.

[narly1]

i really don't think so. and if you feel the need for an equally economical but more potent 302, look into a later explorer engine that left the factory with gt40 heads.

It's a little too late for that now, LOL.

[narly1]

As an afterthought I started researching what I would need in terms of a PCV valve for my build. I learned that PCV valves are not a one size fits all solution. They are all different in terms of their flow characteristics and vacuum transition points.

Found this fiendishly clever adjustable and rebuildable gem:

download.jpeg

http://mewagner.com/?p=444

I'm surprised that there isn't more discussion about this solution out there on the www.

IMO, using anything else is just guessing. I wonder how many of the low vacuum and oil leaking/venting issues we've seen posted here and elsewhere could be resolved with this valve.

Here's a good article on the subject and product: http://www.engineprofessional.com/ar...Q315_34-44.pdf

[Mike DiGiorgio]

It's a little too late for that now, LOL.

i just back-read and saw you had a set of AFR heads on order, which is awesome. AFR makes a great product

however i wonder about your choice with the pro-flow efi. The largest advantage to a multi-port system is either for it to be sequential. thus reducing fuel consumption at low loads. Or to use a dry manifold ( manifold that does not have fuel traveling though it) this allows the intake manifold to loose a lot of design constraints thus allowing better runner design. . using a wet intake manifold on a batch fire multi-port system will perform equally to a throttle body system. just with more complication. Have you already ordering the proflow system?

[narly1]

I already have the AFR's and I'm just waiting on the pushrods to arrive so I can finish the head installation process.

And yes the PF4 is already on order. One other advantage I forgot to mention is that it's a "turn-key" solution with the injectors, intake and distributor all included.

As a side note I just spoke with Gene at M/E Wagner and ordered the PCV valve. Highly recommend!!

[narly1]

My pushrods arrived Thursday afternoon. You would think they would be immaculate from the factory, but no.

This is the aftermath. Pipe cleaners soaked in WD-40 for first pass, brake cleaner for the second pass.

The external surfaces also got a wipe down with WD-40 there were brown stains on the rag I used for that.

Once done everything got a coating of 10W30.

20210424_091422[1].jpg

[narly1]

It's hard to tell by the photo but I made some good progress today.

Started off by fixing an alignment issue with the serpentine belt and shortening down one of the alternator bracket bolts that goes through the water pump, timing cover and into the block. (I hate bolts that are too long with exposed threads sticking out of the back side of the block.)

I then moved on to temporarily installing 2 of the new pushrods. The travel pattern on the valve tips (Sharpie method) was almost identical to what I saw previously with the checker rod, so good to go there.

I then re-checked the piston to valve clearance and we're still good there as well. (In theory nothing should have changed but now I know for sure.

I changed out the checker springs and put the regular ones back on. Again I checked the valve sealing using the chamber filled with soapy liquid/blow air through ports technique and no bubbles. Good to go.

Converted the 2 lifters that I had made into "solid" ones back to their stock configuration. Dunked them in 10W30 while they were all apart. The other 14 I had sitting in oil overnight. The lifters were then loaded into the block with lots more oil and assembly lube on the top cups and rollers.

I oriented the side vent holes in all the lifters so that they are facing inward.

The dog bones and spider were then installed. The spider bolts got tightened down. I couldn't find a torque spec for those 2 bolts so just went with "good and snug", LOL

A smear of 10W30 in each bore, head gaskets installed taking care to make sure that the "front" lettering was to the front, and then on with the heads.

All of the ARP head bolts and reducer bushings got a wash in Varsol followed by a rinse with brake cleaner.

Permatex 59206 sealant on all the threads and ARP lube under the bolt heads where they ride on the bushings.

All bolts torqued to 70 ft-lbs in 4 successive steps: 20, 40, 60 and then finally 70 ft-lbs, in the Ford prescribed pattern, starting in the center and working outwards.

I still have to install/torque/align the rocker studs and pushrod guides but first I have to get more thread sealant. I only had just enough for the head bolts.

After that I'll install the rockers. I'm going to start with a 1/2 turn (which is ~ .025") of pre-load beyond zero lash and see how that works. (Note that these are just the stock lifters which I'm re-using after being disassembled and a thoroughly cleaned.

20210424_195332[1].jpg

[johnnybgoode]

It's hard to tell by the photo but I made some good progress today.

Started off by fixing an alignment issue with the serpentine belt and shortening down one of the alternator bracket bolts that goes through the water pump, timing cover and into the block. (I hate bolts that are too long with exposed threads sticking out of the back side of the block.)

I then moved on to temporarily installing 2 of the new pushrods. The travel pattern on the valve tips (Sharpie method) was almost identical to what I saw previously with the checker rod, so good to go there.

I then re-checked the piston to valve clearance and we're still good there as well. (In theory nothing should have changed but now I know for sure.

I changed out the checker springs and put the regular ones back on. Again I checked the valve sealing using the chamber filled with soapy liquid/blow air through ports technique and no bubbles. Good to go.

Converted the 2 lifters that I had made into "solid" ones back to their stock configuration. Dunked them in 10W30 while they were all apart. The other 14 I had sitting in oil overnight. The lifters were then loaded into the block with lots more oil and assembly lube on the top cups and rollers.

I oriented the side vent holes in all the lifters so that they are facing inward.

The dog bones and spider were then installed. The spider bolts got tightened down. I couldn't find a torque spec for those 2 bolts so just went with "good and snug", LOL

A smear of 10W30 in each bore, head gaskets installed taking care to make sure that the "front" lettering was to the front, and then on with the heads.

All of the ARP head bolts and reducer bushings got a wash in Varsol followed by a rinse with brake cleaner.

Permatex 59206 sealant on all the threads and ARP lube under the bolt heads where they ride on the bushings.

All bolts torqued to 70 ft-lbs in 4 successive steps: 20, 40, 60 and then finally 70 ft-lbs, in the Ford prescribed pattern, starting in the center and working outwards.

I still have to install/torque/align the rocker studs and pushrod guides but first I have to get more thread sealant. I only had just enough for the head bolts.

After that I'll install the rockers. I'm going to start with a 1/2 turn (which is ~ .025") of pre-load beyond zero lash and see how that works. (Note that these are just the stock lifters which I'm re-using after being disassembled and a thoroughly cleaned.

20210424_195332[1].jpg

Looks good! Where were you able to source your push rods from? Scott

[33fromSD]

Hey Narly1.....

Word of caution on your 302. I have 302 as well and I needed to swing my alternator up in order to clear the frame....I think you'll need to do the same.

Jim

20210124_101621.jpg 20201102_081854.jpg

[narly1]

Hey Narly1.....

Word of caution on your 302. I have 302 as well and I needed to swing my alternator up in order to clear the frame....I think you'll need to do the same.

Jim

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the heads up!

This is what my set-up looks like if I rotate the alternator clockwise on it's pivot bolt and relocate the tensioning turnbuckle.

All I'll need is one extra spacer from CVF, a couple of additional fasteners, and a longer belt.

20210425_223642[1].jpg

[narly1]

Looks good! Where were you able to source your push rods from? Scott

I found them on eBay. They were about $10-$15 more than Summit but I wanted to keep working.

[33fromSD]

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the heads up!

This is what my set-up looks like if I rotate the alternator clockwise on it's pivot bolt and relocate the tensioning turnbuckle.

All I'll need is one extra spacer from CVF, a couple of additional fasteners, and a longer belt.

20210425_223642[1].jpg

Looks like you'll also either need a longer turn buckle adjusting rod since you'll want the alternator out further than you think, otherwise you'll never get the lower heater hose on the lower straight inlet nipple on the water pump, or you'll need to swap the current nipple for a right angle one (mine was pressed in so I needed to add a 5/8" right angle fitting).

Jim

[narly1]

Looks like you'll also either need a longer turn buckle adjusting rod since you'll want the alternator out further than you think, otherwise you'll never get the lower heater hose on the lower straight inlet nipple on the water pump, or you'll need to swap the current nipple for a right angle one (mine was pressed in so I needed to add a 5/8" right angle fitting).

Jim

Re the clearance between the heater hose and the alternator, ya I was looking at that. The turnbuckle length should be long enough. I may need to put a 45 degree street elbow into the water pump to make sure the hose doesn't rub up against the underside of the alternator though.

[narly1]

All I will say here is that CVF is a class act.

I told them about having to high vs low mount the alternator and they are sending me the extra bits of hardware needed to do the job for NOTHING!

I didn't even have to cover the shipping.

[HVACMAN]

You are right about CVF. I had an a/c compressor making noise on start up. I made a call to CVF and two days later a new compressor arrived. No charge.

[33fromSD]

Yup...when I hd to flip my alternator to the higher position, even though my engine came from BP with the CVF kit already installed CVF sent me the longer turn buckle & belt for no charge. I felt kind of bad since I didn't directly buy the original kit from them. I just explained my situation, they verified I bought the engine from BP (who bought the CVF it) and came back and said no problem, we'll take care of you.

Good guys / great customer service. Hard to find in this day and age.

Although, I have to throw out huge kudos for FFR too, I have never had any issues with getting replacement parts, and their responsiveness has been nothing short of awesome, even through the pandemic. I actually just got a one-off set of striker plates from FFR which we spent a few cycles back and forth after a couple sets of stock plate were not fitting.

Jim

[narly1]

One down and 7 to go or two down and 14 to go depending on your perspective LOL. Found the hardest part to be getting the push rod guide plates locked down in positions that best centered the rocker rollers on the tops of the valve stems (The clearance between the guide plates and the push rods allows them to wiggle a little bit, causing the rockers to rotate slightly on their mounting studs.)

20210428_220033[1].jpg

Mental note to self to measure rocker arm to valve spring clearance, minimum is .015".

[narly1]

Pushrods and rockers all installed. Now we wait for the EFI system and a few other remaining parts to turn up.

Sharp eyes may also notice a 45 degree street elbow installed into the water pump along with the stock straight barb fitting. This will allow the heater hose to clear the alternator in it's new high mounted position.

20210429_215848[1].jpg

[narly1]

Found this valve lash/preload setting tutorial on line and thought I would use it as a check against the method that I had used previously:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EGlb_VpTAw&t=2s

Sure enough I found a couple of valves that were way loose.

The above method is so simple and fool-proof, highly recommend!

[33fromSD]

Found this valve lash/preload setting tutorial on line and thought I would use it as a check against the method that I had used previously:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EGlb_VpTAw&t=2s

Sure enough I found a couple of valves that were way loose.

The above method is so simple and fool-proof, highly recommend!

I've used this method in the past...good process, my only suggestion to greatly improve it is.....once push rods are install in the engine take a rag with lacquer thinner and wiped down each push rod really well and then wear rubber gloves before starting the process. If you touch anything oily, swap out the rubber gloves.

Why?..... because I found if the push rods have the slightest bit of oil of them you'll get a false feel when spinning them so where you should have zero lash you may have slightly more because you trying to spin the push rod harder due to the oily surface. And then wearing rubber gloves takes out the variable of things like oily fingers, dry skin, sweaty skin, finger sensitivity issue (nerve problems, arthritis, etc.).

You need to be able to consistently "lightly" spin the push rod to be able to feel zero lash.

Jim

[narly1]

I've used this method in the past...good process, my only suggestion to greatly improve it is....
Jim

I hear you. I do think though that having some assembly lube on either end of the pushrod is partly key to consistency. If the pushrod shaft is a bit slippery to me the worst thing that can happen is that you are adding a bit more pre-load (ie going a bit past zero lash) than if it wasn't (slippery) as you tighten down the rocker which is not the end of the world.

[33fromSD]

I hear you. I do think though that having some assembly lube on either end of the pushrod is partly key to consistency. If the pushrod shaft is a bit slippery to me the worst thing that can happen is that you are adding a bit more pre-load (ie going a bit past zero lash) than if it wasn't (slippery) as you tighten down the rocker which is not the end of the world.

Fully agree...lube on the ends is fine, it's more about being able to spin the push rod consistently which is why I clean the push rod body (I should have clarified that, sorry).

Jim

[narly1]

No, no, I got what you were saying. But what I was saying is that if the shaft is slippery as long as you can spin it as you bring it down to zero lash the worst thing that can happen
is that you're going to add a little bit of pre-load.

[33fromSD]

No, no, I got what you were saying. But what I was saying is that if the shaft is slippery as long as you can spin it as you bring it down to zero lash the worst thing that can happen
is that you're going to add a little bit of pre-load.

Yup...agree

[narly1]

Sigh.....these parts delays due to COVID are killing me.

Nothing I can do on my engine build until late June now.

I guess this means I should apply myself to getting the build stand fabricated and ready to go.

One of our fellow FFR'ers said something to me that I think very much applies to these projects:

"Keep moving forward. Even if its only a little, do something every day."

[33fromSD]

"Keep moving forward. Even if its only a little, do something every day."

That is absolutely correct...on my build it wasn't full-time every day, every weekend, it was a couple hours here, a half hour there, 20 minutes in the morning before work and then I hit it hard on any open weekend when I had a longer window.

You can get a ton of stuff done in short periods of time with the right organization.

Jim

[narly1]

Getting closer...piecing together the fuel delivery system that will be needed for the run-up.

I doubt this piece is any different than any of the other regulators out there but for some reason it caught my eye LOL.

20210602_171047[1].jpg

[narly1]

Any issues with using this location for the ignition coil?
I'm not using a power steering pump.

20210606_082509[1].jpg

[33fromSD]

That's where I mounted mine on our 302 in our 69 Mustang and have had it like that for 5 years and never had any issues. Although mine is at ~70 deg cause at one point some old school mechanic told me the coil needs to be vertical or close to (no less than 60 deg) for the contents to be level. Sideways can lessen the life of the coil.

I think high vibration coils like MSD may be exempt from that rule but not sure.

Jim

[narly1]

That's where I mounted mine on our 302 in our 69 Mustang and have had it like that for 5 years and never had any issues. Although mine is at ~70 deg cause at one point some old school mechanic told me the coil needs to be vertical or close to (no less than 60 deg) for the contents to be level. Sideways can lessen the life of the coil.

I think high vibration coils like MSD may be exempt from that rule but not sure.

Jim

Ya, your right. Shame on me for not reading the install instructions more carefully. It does say for the coil that I have that it should be vertical. That being said I posted my question up to the Facebook SBF group and lots of guys say they are getting away with mounting it they way I have it now.

[33fromSD]

Ya, your right. Shame on me for not reading the install instructions more carefully. It does say for the coil that I have that it should be vertical. That being said I posted my question up to the Facebook SBF group and lots of guys say they are getting away with mounting it they way I have it now.

It will definitely work being horizontal, you may just get shortened life and some some have mentioned on the mustang forums that heat soak is more prevalant being horizontal than vertical.

Jim

[narly1]

I was working with what I had. The bracket is a 2-hole/ U-strap type and there re 3 tapped holes in the end of the head, hence the angle. I have since ordered one of the single hole P-type clamps. That way I can get the coil vertical on the head. I might also be able to pick up on the one water pump bolt location that you can see in the bottom of the photo and mount the bracket there. The other idea I had was an adapter plate on standoffs that I could attach to those holes in the head and then bolt my U-bracket to that. But that sounds like a lot of work, LOL.

[narly1]

So here's the improved version of the coil mounting.

Scott Drake stainless steel, single hole coil bracket mounted "backwards" off of one of the water pump bolts.

I'm lucky that I can get away with this as I don't have any other accessory drive components taking up that spot.

20210610_170858[1].jpg

[narly1]

I Just checked the order for my EFI and it has now been pushed out from shipping next week until the first week of September.

I can't tell you all how disappointed I am about this. I placed my order on March 18th....

Hopefully the delivery improves between now and then....

[33fromSD]

Bummer...... When does your 33 Kit arrive?

Jim