Midwest Classic Insurance

Visit our community sponsor

Thanks Thanks:  2
Likes Likes:  1
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Couple of MkIV Questions

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Heart of Dixie, Alabama
    Posts
    1,849
    Post Thanks / Like

    Couple of MkIV Questions

    1st most shocking, I got the side pipes hung. Thanks to Mark for his wedge shims.
    Helper and I wanted to hear the engine with the pipes on. I turned on the battery disconnect and fired it up. I noticed the headlights were on. Headlight switch off, hit the hi/low beams, no change. Pulled headlight switch to on, parking lights come on, hi/low works, turn signals work. Push the switch in to off and lights stay on with no control. Engine and key off, disconnect on, lights on. If I put power on the car, the lights come on. My first impression diagnosis, bad head light switch. I am using the F5 supplied switch with the Ron Francis wiring harness, no changes in wiring.
    The car has been started numerous times, headlights were checked just plugged in, during wiring. Headlight are now mounted on the body.
    If yall think, the switch is the problem, I would appreciate the part number for the ?ACDelco model? direct replacement. I did some searching last night, got tired and went to bed. Thanks,

    2nd, question. While putting the body, hood and doors on, I read that the fiberglass hood opening edges are attached through the hood bumpers, body and to the square tubing. I think I also read on this site, that it does not attach. Since I will have someone fit and paint the body, I do not intend to do this, but which is correct?
    Thanks,

    3rd
    I need a good link to the door latch mod and installation. Looking for something better than a stack of washers for a spacer.
    Thanks,

    I will be searching, but thanks if you take the time to answer or locate an answer for me.
    Last edited by Railroad; 12-06-2019 at 12:42 PM.
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  2. #2
    Straversi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Palos Verdes, CA
    Posts
    1,278
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Railroad View Post
    1st most shocking, I got the side pipes hung. Thanks to Mark for his wedge shims.
    Helper and I wanted to hear the engine with the pipes on. I turned on the battery disconnect and fired it up. I noticed the headlights were on. Headlight switch off, hit the hi/low beams, no change. Pulled headlight switch to on, parking lights come on, hi/low works, turn signals work. Push the switch in to off and lights go back to on with no control. Engine and key off, disconnect on, lights on. If I put power on the car, the lights come on. My first impression diagnosis, bad head light switch. I am using the F5 supplied switch with the Ron Francis wiring harness, no changes in wiring.
    The car has been started numerous times, headlights were checked just plugged in, during wiring. Headlight are now mounted on the body.
    If yall think, the switch is the problem, I would appreciate the part number for the ?ACDelco model? direct replacement. I did some searching last night, got tired and went to bed. Thanks,

    2nd, question. While putting the body, hood and doors on, I read that the fiberglass hood opening edges are attached through the hood bumpers, body and to the square tubing. I think I also read on this site, that it does not attach. Since I will have someone fit and paint the body, I do not intend to do this, but which is correct?
    Thanks,

    3rd
    I need a good link to the door latch mod and installation. Looking for something better than a stack of washers for a spacer.
    Thanks,

    I will be searching, but thanks if you take the time to answer or locate an answer for me.
    I'll let others answer 1 & 2.

    #3. Use the stacked washers to get the door latch spacing perfect. Left and right sides probably won't be the same. I replaced the stacked washers with a thick wall aluminum spacer from McMaster. They are 3/4" OD, 5/16" ID. I started with 5/8" long part #92510A801. One side took a little sanding. Had to remove a bit more on the other side to match the washer spacing.



    Or, just paint the washers black and be done with it.

    If you are looking for a link to the "carriage bolt modification" to the latch itself, there was a good link to a long description on the other forum. It no longer works. EduardB has a good description of that mod in his 20th anniversary thread, page 8, I believe. I copied it into my thread, page 4, post 145.

    -Steve
    Last edited by Straversi; 12-06-2019 at 12:31 PM.
    Mk IV #8901 - Complete kit, Coyote, TKO-600, IRS. Ordered 5/23/16, Delivered 7/14/16, First Start 8/13/17, First Go-Kart 10/22/17, Registered and Completed 10/18/18. Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...V-Coyote-Build Graduation Thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-Roadster-8901

  3. #3
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Posts
    8,003
    Post Thanks / Like
    #1 The fact that you have no high/low beam control with the switch off leads me to believe that the issue is not the switch. If the switch was bad and constantly powering up terminal #6 (the light blue wire feeding the dimmer toggle) you would still be able to toggle between high and low beams. I think you're going to need to start following wires...can you tell whether it's the high or low that are staying energized? When you know that it will help determine whether you need to chase down the low beam (red) or high beam (brown) wire. It's not been unheard of for wires in the RF harness to be landed in the wrong position on their big multi pin plugs so I'm wondering if one of these two are misindexed and wound up paired with a constant hot at one of the plugs. It's gonna' take some detective work I'm afraid.

    #2 NO!

    #3 Unless you're feeling extra ambitious just use the washers for now. The latch and striker position will ultimately change during body & paint. I always make a nylon spacer to replace the stack-o-washers once everything is finalized (anybody need some 5/16 flat washers...I must have a few hundred of 'em by now ).

    Jeff

  4. Likes RBachman liked this post
  5. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Heart of Dixie, Alabama
    Posts
    1,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    Well, 2 replies and everything addressed. Super help Straversi and Jeff Kleiner . Thanks for the guidance on the door latch mod.

    On the headlights, I did add weather packs to the headlight harness. 3 wires, cannot think how this could be the problem, but out with the Volt Ohm Meter and see what I can find.

    Jeff thanks for the confirmation on the hood opening issue and door striker bolt shim.

    I will go washers for now, Jeff your inventory, might increase.

    Thanks,
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  6. #5
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Fairfax Station VA
    Posts
    1,229
    Post Thanks / Like
    #1: As Jeff said, check the RF connectors first. Of the handful of builds I have seen, two have had mis-matched connectors.


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

  7. #6
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lake Orion, Michigan
    Posts
    10,547
    Post Thanks / Like
    Agree it's unlikely your switch is bad, based on the description. But since you asked and if you need to replace it, ACDelco D1588 GM Original Equipment Headlamp Switch. Little over $20 on Amazon. Make sure it's the genuine ACDelco variety. Better quality IMO. The RF plug fits exactly. Also agree on not messing with spacers on your door latches until final assembly. Get it where you want it for now with washers. Tweak as necessary at final, measure the stack, and replace with a spacer. I too use thick wall aluminum tubing and polish it up a bit. If you're asking about the actual latch mod that many of us do, this is the link: http://www.linger.com/cobra/DoorLatchRepair.htm.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Heart of Dixie, Alabama
    Posts
    1,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks Paul. Not to open another can of worms, but I thought this unusual.
    When I started to wire my foot box lights, I found the twist function of the light switch completed a ground. This is on the F5 supplied switch. I put a hot wire on the leg of the lights and let the other (-) wire go to the light switch terminal for interior lights. They work, but thought odd.

    I got the door latch knobs secured. Those things are dead soft brass.
    I thought about putting some blue loctite on the screws, but thought I would let things progress before I committed.

    I still lack the carriage bolt mod, but seeing the link Paul posted makes it very clearer.

    On the next page, I got my SCT X4 tuner today.
    I want to put some 5/16" bolts in my drivers side, side pipe flanges. It needs a little tweek to get it level.
    Question, Is this where you leave 1 bolt out of the side pipe support, where it bolts to the pipe?

    I spoke to the local court house about getting a tag. They made it sound simple, hope it is.

    If I do not get to the head light issue. I will tell them they are Daylight Driving Lights. Just kidding, I cannot let something like that go.

    Thanks for the help. I will let yall know what I find on the headlights, unless it is too embarrassing, Just kidding, will not be my first mistake.

    Thanks for all the help!
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  9. #8
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Posts
    8,003
    Post Thanks / Like
    That’s how the headlight switch courtesy light circuit works; by switching the ground.

    Jeff

  10. Thanks Railroad thanked for this post
  11. #9
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lake Orion, Michigan
    Posts
    10,547
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Railroad View Post
    I want to put some 5/16" bolts in my drivers side, side pipe flanges. It needs a little tweek to get it level.
    Question, Is this where you leave 1 bolt out of the side pipe support, where it bolts to the pipe?
    Yes. The Factory Five side pipes have a tab welded onto the side with two bolts for the hangar that attaches under the chassis. Recommendation is only use one bolt and let it pivot. Overwise, it's likely to break the tab off the pipe.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  12. Thanks Railroad thanked for this post
  13. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Heart of Dixie, Alabama
    Posts
    1,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    I got the latch mod done. Well almost, I put the carriage bolts in backwards. No problem, I have plenty of experience taking them apart and putting them together now.

    On the headlights, I did not have time to work on them, but wanted to see what the wires showed.
    Both high and low beam wires are hot, red and brown, I think. I guess that means both hi and low are lit. The high beam indicator is also on.

    With my focus today, I do not need to be tracing wiring. I forgot to bring the wiring instructions home to look over.

    If it helps someone trying to help me, I am using RT turn signal and the VW latching relay.

    I did buy some 5/16 allen head bolts to tweak my side pipes, but they are black oxide and need to confirm the grade on them.

    I powder coated the spacers that go behind the latches, I think I saw where edwardb used them, so I am guessing they need to go on the door?
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  14. #11
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Posts
    8,003
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Railroad View Post

    I powder coated the spacers that go behind the latches, I think I saw where edwardb used them, so I am guessing they need to go on the door?
    90% of the time the driver's door takes one, 10% of the time it takes two, 0% of the time it takes none. Passenger door is 50% none, 50% one. Nothing is fully established until the body is set into it's final position with the doors fitted and adjusted.

    Jeff

  15. #12
    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    O'Fallon, MO
    Posts
    3,069
    Post Thanks / Like
    It makes no difference what grade bolts you have for the side pipes. Good gosh you're holding on 40# of side pipe with 4 bolts.

  16. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Heart of Dixie, Alabama
    Posts
    1,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks Jeff and Rich. I need something easy today.

    20191209_140239(1).jpg
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  17. #14
    David aka Ducky2009 Ducky2009's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Lilburn, GA
    Posts
    774
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Railroad View Post
    I did buy some 5/16 allen head bolts to tweak my side pipes, but they are black oxide and need to confirm the grade on them.
    Joe, Steel allen head bolts (socket head cap screws) are grade 8
    MK4 Build #9035 Delivered 2/17/17, First Start & Go-Kart 6/2/17, Licensed 9/1/17
    Paint - Lightning Blue Metallic, No Hood Scoop, No Stripes
    Gen 2 Coyote Engine & TKO-600. Solid Axle, 8.8-3.55, Power Steering, Power Brakes, Dual Roll Bars
    Heater and Glove Box, Drop Trunk, Wipers, Radio, FFR Vintage Gauges, Custom Dash
    Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...MK4-Build-9035

  18. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Heart of Dixie, Alabama
    Posts
    1,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    That sounds good. The 5/16" sure looks small compared to the 3/8" stock bolts.
    Thanks,
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  19. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Heart of Dixie, Alabama
    Posts
    1,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    OK, guys I am starting on the headlight issue, mentally that is.
    I spoke with Russ Thompson and Ron Francis. My problem did not bring to mind a common issue.
    After looking at the diagrams, it must be inside the VW relay. I think that is the only place both the high and low beam wires, red and brown, are both near a hot feed.
    I did not wire in a flash to pass switch. Just using the latching relay and the momentary switch on Russ's turn signal stalk, for hi/low switching.
    Bad news is the body and dash are pretty much mounted, until paint time.
    Any thoughts on what might have happened. I am thinking the problem did not exist after completing the wiring, but would not have been watching for it to occur.

    Thanks for any suggestions.
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  20. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Saint Johns, Florida
    Posts
    286
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi Jeff,
    So...don't attach the body hood opening rails to the frame rails? Ever? Or after final assembly.
    I did read in the manual to attach it and I thought that was wrong and wrote myself a note on that page :"Then the body cannot be removed!"
    So...how can I get good alignment during the fitting stage? Temporarily screw the body to the frame around the hood or just let it flop? I intend to drive for quite awhile in gel coat.
    Thanks for your help,
    Jeff
    Mk4 Complete kit with IRS, IRS brakes, Power Steering, 302 mounts, 302 headers, TKO, 2 Rollbars, Leather seats,
    vintage gauges, polished stainless sidepipes, front and rear sway bars, all cutouts.
    Blueprint Engines 347 stroker; Tremec TKO 600; 3.55 IRS, 17" Bullitt wheels: 9" front 10.5" rear.
    Delivered Nov. 6, 2018. First start Aug. 11, 2019. First Go-Cart Feb. 21, 2020.

  21. #18
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lake Orion, Michigan
    Posts
    10,547
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Railroad View Post
    ... After looking at the diagrams, it must be inside the VW relay. I think that is the only place both the high and low beam wires, red and brown, are both near a hot feed.
    I did not wire in a flash to pass switch. Just using the latching relay and the momentary switch on Russ's turn signal stalk, for hi/low switching...
    Anything is possible. And those VW style latching relays can be troublesome. But I kind of doubt a failure mode would be both sides connected. I had one in my Mk3 that had the most common failure. Would switch but not latch. Took it apart thinking I might be able to tweak it and get working, but no luck at all. It's somewhat intricate with multiple small parts. I quickly gave up and bought a new one. Which solved my problem. It's basically the same inside as a standard relay, e.g. one side normal open, the other side normally closed. The only difference is it has a mechanical latching mechanism so that it stays in whatever state you switch it to without requiring power to the coil. Short of completely falling apart, where maybe it would short to both sides and seems very unlikely, really don't see how it would cause what you're seeing.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  22. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Heart of Dixie, Alabama
    Posts
    1,849
    Post Thanks / Like
    Edwardb, I agree. I cannot trace the wiring at present, because the body has all associated parts covered.
    When installing the latching relay, I did have an issue. The relay, had a tab to screw mount it. When the screw was tightened it would distort the relay base and cause the relay to not function. It seems a washer behind the mounting tab corrected that.
    After reviewing the diagrams, it seems hot from the headlight switch feeds the relay, the relay feeds the hi and low beam wire leads. I am puzzles how the hot can get on both leads and come on with powering up the electrical system. I think I wired the headlights to come on with out the key on.
    I do not think it is doing any harm now, but will definitely, dig into it, when the body comes off.
    Thanks for the discussion.
    Last edited by Railroad; 12-12-2019 at 06:50 PM.
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  23. #20
    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    O'Fallon, MO
    Posts
    3,069
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff's First FFR View Post
    Hi Jeff,
    So...don't attach the body hood opening rails to the frame rails? Ever? Or after final assembly.
    I did read in the manual to attach it and I thought that was wrong and wrote myself a note on that page :"Then the body cannot be removed!"
    So...how can I get good alignment during the fitting stage? Temporarily screw the body to the frame around the hood or just let it flop? I intend to drive for quite awhile in gel coat.
    Thanks for your help,
    Jeff
    do not attach the body around the hood opening, ever. I typed that real slow

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

FFMetal

Visit our community sponsor