Steering:Powered, Depowered or Custom?

[PhyrraM]

Seeing how many of the other threads are getting plugged up with the same old conversations, I figured I'd throw out another to occupy our time while FFR slowly leaks out trickles of information.

The concensus is that Subarus generally have slow steering - outside a very few later models. It's also a safe bet that there is not going to be a FFR provided custom rack. So the factory rack from the donor is it.

Also the prototype chassis is using the donor front knuckles/hubs, so the 818 isn't likely to have 'faster' steering than the donor. That being said, I have never had a feeling of too slow of steering from either my '02 WRX or my early Legacies - even when rallycrossing (no autocross for comparision).

I'm guessing the extent of the 818 kit will be a sheet of "Rack depowering instructions".

There are gearboxes that can be fabbed to the column to speed things up, and there is at least one company that makes a faster Subaru specific rack ($$$).

Thoughts?

[Silvertop]

...........The concensus is that Subarus generally have slow steering - outside a very few later models. It's also a safe bet that there is not going to be a FFR provided custom rack. So the factory rack from the donor is it.

Also the prototype chassis is using the donor front knuckles/hubs, so the 818 isn't likely to have 'faster' steering than the donor. That being said, I have never had a feeling of too slow of steering from either my '02 WRX or my early Legacies - even when rallycrossing (no autocross for comparision).

I'm guessing the extent of the 818 kit will be a sheet of "Rack depowering instructions".

There are gearboxes that can be fabbed to the column to speed things up, and there is at least one company that makes a faster Subaru specific rack ($$$).

Thoughts?

Never having owned a Subaru, I have no expertise, but I do have a question or two.

Based on your personal experience, I'm making an assumption that Subaru's generally regarded slow steering is not likely to be a major issue to the guy who is building a car purely for street use, but may be if he plans to be involved in competition, particularly the more frenetic types such as autocross, where vehicle attitude changes tend to be frequent, sudden, and severe.

I do see a general advantage in faster steering, even for street use. The car is just going to feel more responsive. It occurs to me though, that if one changes the input ratio on his steering to make it faster, the change in gearing will also result in requiring more physical force to move the wheel. Not a problem if the Subaru power steering is still in play, but could be if the kit requires that the power steering is eliminated. Or maybe in a car this light, it won't matter much. I'm just speculating. I guess that really is my question.

The likelihood is it won't matter to me, unless I get silly and decide that I have to go racing. But it could definitely be a potential concern to any number of the guys on this forum who are clearly competition-oriented. (I was into that, once upon a time, but that was 30 years ago).

I found a vendor on line (a Canadian company) which specializes in modifying your existing factory steering rack on about a 10-day turnaround for $1200. Results in 2.4 turns lock-to-lock, which is apparently about 30% less than stock. Is that the vendor you are talking about?

[vozproto]

Meaning it starts out at 3.6 turns lock to lock?
That IS quite slow. I can imagine that it may be an artifact of the rally pedigree.

But damn... that'd be like a 10% increase in cost if going with that vendor.
Gonna have to find other solutions methinks.

[Silvertop]

Meaning it starts out at 3.6 turns lock to lock?
.......

What the website said specifically was that their modified steering rack required "30% less input", and resulted in 2.4 turns lock-to-lock. I'm not really sure if that equates to simple percentage multiplication of lock-to-lock turns. But if it does, 2.4 is approximately 70% of 3.4, which should mean that it is 30% less.......

[thebeerbaron]

Definitely depowered, very likely a smaller diameter steering wheel. As far as lock-to-lock, not sure yet. My donor is running again (woohoo!), but I've only put about a hundred miles on the new motor. I'm spending most of my time watching the temp gauge and listening for odd noises. Hopefully soon I'll be able to pay attention to the steering, other than noting it's far too light and the wheel is far too large for a sports car.

[PhyrraM]

Yes, $1200 sounds about right. Must be the Company I read about. Basically they install a custom made rack and pinion gear then rebuild the unit with a factory OEM seal kit.

Early '02-'03 WRXs had huge steering wheels, they started trimming them down in '04. By the last year ('07) the size was more appropriate.

Also, for kit compatability reasons, FFR must keep in mind that there are 2 ways of mounting the rack itself to the chassis. IIRC, '06 was the changeover.

My main point of the thread is to open another, non stale, avenue of disscussion. However, I do see this as a concern to some of the guys looking at competion uses (and the "perfectionists").

[StatGSR]

at half the price of the Q-rack, the L&E quick steering column is a more economical choice....

http://column.landefabrication.com/steering.html

they also sell some Brake Booster eliminator kits which might work well for the 818.


there are also some other cheaper quick steering column add-ons that could be used...

http://compare.ebay.com/like/2005993...=sbar&_lwgsi=y

[vozproto]

2 lock to lock. That's pretty tight.
Sounds about perfect for a race platform.
Half the price too. And $150 of that seems like its a core charge.
nice.

[Silvertop]

........Early '02-'03 WRXs had huge steering wheels, they started trimming them down in '04. By the last year ('07) the size was more appropriate..........

My main point of the thread is to open another, non stale, avenue of discussion. However, I do see this as a concern to some of the guys looking at competition uses (and the "perfectionists").

Well, I'm definitely in favor of a smaller steering wheel, particularly if the stock one is big and clunky. I'm betting there will be one available from FFR for the kit, although it will likely be extra cost, not automatically included. With a smaller wheel, there WILL be at least some additional exertion required, which will be compounded if one also decides to alter the gear ratio. However, the race track guys may not care whether the thing builds muscles when parallel parking........

It IS a good idea to try to generate a new "non-stale" discussion. We really have fallen into the habit of kicking the same stuff around over and over again. Of course, in order to keep this thread from getting stale, you will need to change the subject now and again. Will this be the official "Hijack Me" Thread?

[Silvertop]

at half the price of the Q-rack, the L&E quick steering column is a more economical choice....

http://column.landefabrication.com/steering.html

they also sell some Brake Booster eliminator kits which might work well for the 818.

Well, that sounds a little more encouraging!

[PhyrraM]

Yup, some of the other threads have reached that "agree to disagree" status. This one will eventually too.

My next thread will be "Control arms:WRX/STI/Spec C?" We'll get dirty with alignment next week.

I can see the cost savings of using a column integrated gearbox to increase the racks speed, but has anybody considered the strength? They seem to run about $100-$200 for just the gearboxes. Coming from an industrial background, I would look long and hard at what $150 would buy me for a replacement on one of my printing presses. But I just don't know if that experiance is compatable in this case.

Anybody seen one of these quickening gearboxes used long term? Used under anger?

[thebeerbaron]

Anybody seen one of these quickening gearboxes used long term? Used under anger?

Also wonder what sort of slop they introduce and other downsides.

[crobin4]

Yup, some of the other threads have reached that "agree to disagree" status. This one will eventually too.

My next thread will be "Control arms:WRX/STI/Spec C?" We'll get dirty with alignment next week.

I can see the cost savings of using a column integrated gearbox to increase the racks speed, but has anybody considered the strength? They seem to run about $100-$200 for just the gearboxes. Coming from an industrial background, I would look long and hard at what $150 would buy me for a replacement on one of my printing presses. But I just don't know if that experiance is compatable in this case.

Anybody seen one of these quickening gearboxes used long term? Used under anger?

They are very common in short track oval dirt and asphalt cars. Durability should be good.

They are a planetary gear arrangement. I think a long as gear lash is adjustable slop shouldn't be bad.

As of a couple of years ago, I plan on running one with power steering and a 13 in steering wheel.

FWIW

[crobin4]

I've been looking at this one:
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7433-ste...quickener.aspx
http://www.howeracing.com/Adobe/Bill...-B2%20Inst.pdf
I don't believe lash is adjustable. But IIRC, I saw one opened up in some stock car magazine review. I think it has helical gear cluster ( one center gear, three intermediate gears and one outer planetary).
And, If they is gud nuff fur them NASCARs, why they's gud nuff fur little 'ol me.

[crobin4]

I've been looking at this one:
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7433-ste...quickener.aspx
http://www.howeracing.com/Adobe/Bill...-B2%20Inst.pdf
I don't believe lash is adjustable. But IIRC, I saw one opened up in some stock car magazine review. I think it has helical gear cluster ( one center gear, three intermediate gears and one outer planetary).
And, If they is gud nuff fur them NASCARs, why they's gud nuff fur little 'ol me.

OK, Forget the helical gear reference. I suppose I've been looking helical diffs opened to much lately.

You guys may find these interesting.
http://www.specialstage.com/forums/s...ring-Quickener
http://www.stockcarracing.com/techar...r/viewall.html

I'm liking the one with the chain for a zero lash feel. But, the down side is finding he space to mount it.

The Howe units appear to be easier to find space to mount in tight confines.

[GUNS]

I am definitely going with a manual steering rack and smaller wheel. The elise has so much feedback without power steering and i want a similar feeling with the 818.

[Silvertop]

I am definitely going with a manual steering rack and smaller wheel. The elise has so much feedback without power steering and i want a similar feeling with the 818.

Hmm.........Might be some useful comparative information here

How does your Elise's steering feel when parallel parking, or generally functioning at very low speeds ((2-3 mph) ? What does it weigh? And how many turns is it, lock to lock?

[Silvertop]

Yup, some of the other threads have reached that "agree to disagree" status. This one will eventually too.

My next thread will be "Control arms:WRX/STI/Spec C?" We'll get dirty with alignment next week.

I can see the cost savings of using a column integrated gearbox to increase the racks speed, but has anybody considered the strength?

Also, does anyone have any input on whether (or how) a column integrated gearbox might impact the ability of the steering column to collapse in a hard collision?