I've been searching around and now I'm posting and hoping those with many miles of experience can reply.
I'm new to Cobras and my MKIV has 17" wheels with old tires (but 1,200 miles). For safety's sake, I'll replace them. But with a 2,200lb car and ~450hp, what tire is best for street use? I'm looking for less wheelspin in spirited driving, while also being able to turn and stop. Again, performance (in dry) and safety to me go hand in hand. I've been driving the car in cold weather and of course there's NO traction. I do not care about treadwear life or tire cost. This is a very limited, nice weather car only. I want a tire that will help me keep the car ON THE ROAD!
On my old GTO with 600ft/lbs, I used Nitto drag radials in the rear. I had to because everything else just spun. It wasn't bad handling overall, but a `65 GTO is no Cobra in terms of handling anyway. That car weighed 3,400lbs.
So:
M/T? Which ones?
Drag radials on the back?
Michelin PS?
etc.
My current sizes are: 245/45R17, and 315/35R17.
.
Adam
____________________
I finally caught a snake!
MKIV, 347, T5, 3.55. `93 Cobra R brakes, heated seats, PS and lots of custom touches.
I'm running Nitto 555 G2s. 315/35/17 on the backs and 255/40/17 on the front. Sure I can spin them pretty much at will but have been impressed with how well they bite. Going around corners seems like you are on rails. Car is used for cruising and street so don't have any experience with them in a racing situation.
2nd MK4 #10639 received 3-19-23. Wife's version. Street Snake - IRS, Willwoods, no roll bars, no hood scoop, no stripes, Blue Print EFI 306 with AOD trans, and under car exhaust. Ford Eruption Green with saddle leather interior.
1st build - Mk4 Roadster #9319, received 4-10-18. IL registration 8/6/19. Moser 8.8. 3 Link. Wilwood brakes. Blue Print 427, Holley 750, TKO 600, 0.64 OD. Paint Dec 2020. Ruby Red with Carbon Flash Black metallic stripes.
Nitto NT-05 is a great street/track tire. Have them on my Challenge Car and love them. I do mostly street driving but also 2-3 track day weekends each year. The Nitto NT-01 is more of a track tire.
Garry
I sure miss my coupe!
F5R1004503SP 2004 Challenge Car, 331 Stroker
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How about telling us what tires you're running, how old they are (the date codes) and what tire pressure you're running first.
I've got Kumho Ecsta's now. I bought the car in the winter so only drove them a few times, and warmest was maybe 50*. They are dated 2012 and 2013. I'm running 24psi now. I'll chalk test them when it's warmer out. Ride is REALLY firm so I'm sure I can run them less. I believe the car weighs 2,190 per prior owner (without people).
I only care about safety, meaning, grip both in accelerating and turning/stopping, all in dry on the street. I want to be able to drive it hard (relatively speaking, since i'm talking about the street) and not have it get loose on my constantly. And if it does come around, I'd like a nice, predictable tire so I can enjoy the ride and rein it in. Money is not a concern when I consider safety on a low mileage car like this.
how well do the MT's handle around turns?
Overall the Nitto NT-05? same questions.
PS: Sorry for the delayed response. I wasn't automatically subscribed to my own thread. go figure!
TIA,
.
Adam
____________________
I finally caught a snake!
MKIV, 347, T5, 3.55. `93 Cobra R brakes, heated seats, PS and lots of custom touches.
I've been pleased with Goodyear GS-D3s 275/40-17 & 315/35-17 and Michelin PS2s 275/40-17 and 335/35-17. I'd go with the PS2s if I was ready to buy tires. Both worked well dry, excellent in the rain and not bad on road tracks, but neither are "track" tires. Lots of miles on both with 440hp to the wheels through 3.27 gears.
Jim
I've got Kumho Ecsta's now. I bought the car in the winter so only drove them a few times, and warmest was maybe 50*. They are dated 2012 and 2013. I'm running 24psi now. I'll chalk test them when it's warmer out. Ride is REALLY firm so I'm sure I can run them less. I believe the car weighs 2,190 per prior owner (without people).
TIA,
Next question since you say the ride is harsh is what rear end? If it's a solid axle the short sidewalls are contributing to the harshness. The tire pressure I would run on 17's is 21* in the rear and 22* in the front max. 7 years on a set of tires for a car rarely driven isn't too bad. If I remember the Kumho's have a 300 treadwear? So that will be equal to the Nitto NT555G2 or there abouts. If you're set on buying new rubber I would go with the Nitto NT01's. Just remember that a 200 threadwear tire is going to wear pretty quick.
Yes, it's a solid rear. I wish it was on 15's with those bigger sidewalls as I like that look. The ride is stiff, as in the springs are very stiff, and the ride feels more like stiff springs than sidewall harshness. Hell, trying to push down on the car to bounce the suspension, I can barely get it to move. But yes, I think running less PSI is in order for sure.
The NT01 is 100 treadwear. Is that too much of a race compound for the street? Not because of the short lifespan but because of it not performing well until it's very hot, no?
Which Kumho "Ecsta"? They use that tag for everything from minivan tires to ultra high performance sports car tires. I'm going to take a guess that you have their XS model because before they were discontinued many builders used them. I ran 2 sets for about 8-10,000 miles each myself. They are a 180 treadwear rating and are very sticky when fresh (although they do like a lot of heat). When they age like yours have the compound does get hard and you simply can't get enough heat in them to really make them work---I found this to be the case with mine after about 3 years regardless of the mileage.
Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam
The NT01 is 100 treadwear. Is that too much of a race compound for the street? Not because of the short lifespan but because of it not performing well until it's very hot, no?
Apples and oranges comparison; street tire vs DOT race tire. I ran a set of NT-01 after the Kumhos. They do not need anywhere near as much heat to work BUT they don't grip well when the ambient is below about 60 degrees and that gets worse exponentially when the temperature gets lower. The NT-01s were totally used up at 5,000 miles but did not have the extreme loss of grip at the end of their life that the XS did. There is no comparison between the NT-01 (or the very similarly performing Toyo R888R which I am currently running) and the Mickey Thompson Street Comp. The Nitto 555G2 is on a similar performance plane as the M/T; both are good compromise street tires that can handle cool and wet conditions but do not offer the same level of perfomance as the old Kumho XS (as I said, now discontinued) or Nitto NT-05 or the even higher performing NT-01 and R888R.
What kind of driving you do and what kind of weather you have makes every person's choice a little different...Guys like me that tend to go to their favorite cruise in spot or car themed Bar & Grill will likely be happier with a general purpose tire...Guys like Jeff or Garry who push these cars rather often at auto cross events need a lot more grip...Straight line 1/8 & 1/4 mile guys will likely want something else.
It's sort of like planning your next SCUBA Dive so.your equipment choice (Tires) depends on what you want to do.
Jeff,
Yes, they are the XS. And yes, they have no grip at all despite only having about 1,400 miles on them.
So based on my criteria and your obvious experience, what's the 'best' choice for:
- 100% street driven (MAYBE i'll auto-x it)
- 450hp engine that I want to be able to drive hard/fun on the street
- predictable should I get is squirrelly
- 99% driven in dry (hopefully 100%)
- Live in NY, so cool morning temps is a factor
- Do not care about longevity or price
- I've got 315/35x17 and 245/45x17 now. I'd like to keep that size or very close to it.
It's odd because I want it to be able to grip under very hard acceleration but also grip around corners. I've had old school big-HP muscle cars and just ran drag radials all the time, but I didn't expect those cars to turn AND STOP!
Hey, what about that, drag radials out back and matching fronts, like from Nitto?
Last edited by AdamIsAdam; 03-20-2020 at 08:02 AM.
.
Adam
____________________
I finally caught a snake!
MKIV, 347, T5, 3.55. `93 Cobra R brakes, heated seats, PS and lots of custom touches.
No, you would run the NT05 up front and drag radial on the rear for drag racing. I'm debating running that all the time but wondering of those drag radials will make the car tail-happy. it was fine on my `64 GTO, but like I said above, different goals with that car
What do you guys think about running Nitto 555-R's on all four corners?
Would the side walls be too squishy?
TerribleSteve
I autocrossed a friend's Mk4 with 555R on all 4 corners---terrible! The tread stuck to the pavement but the car moved all around on the squirmy sidewalls. You'd give it a steering input then have to wait for the tire to quit moving around and take a set.
Adam, until someone mixes up the proper amount of fairy dust, unicorn tears and carbon black to create a magic compound all tires will be a compromise. You want longevity &/or inclement weather performance you'll have to give up dry weather traction and vice versa. You have to decide what your priorities are and what you're willing to give up. You say that "I want it to be able to grip under very hard acceleration but also grip around corners" and state that you don't care about longevity. In that case one of the R-Comps will probably come closest to delivering the performance you're after but you'd have to understand that they will not do well in cool or wet.
Now my disclaimer: If you're exceeding the capabilities of any of the 200 treadwear tires on the street you're doing some stupid $hit that you shouldn't be doing to begin with...get on a track.
Now my disclaimer: If you're exceeding the capabilities of any of the 200 treadwear tires on the street you're doing some stupid $hit that you shouldn't be doing to begin with...get on a track.
Jeff
I've been tempted to say that several times in this thread, but backed away. You said it better than I probably would have. I had more to say, but edited out... Just leave it here.
Last edited by edwardb; 03-20-2020 at 11:20 AM.
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All performance tires suffer at colder temperatures just some more than others. I have been running NT-01s for a couple years and really like them. If road surface temps are below 50 you do need to be careful. Road temps above 70 they are a lot of fun.
Mike............
FFR2100 - 331 with KB supercharger - T5 - 5 link rear 3.08's and T2 Torsen.
Adam,
I highly recommend the Toyo Proxes R1R. It is essentially their "rain" race tire, sticky compound with rain channels. I'm running about 500hp with a blower, street use with the occasional track day. The tires are predictable and will regain traction if you slide them a bit, unlike the "summer performance" tires, which will put you in a spin more often than not or send you sideways with a little excitement at the wheel (ask me how I know). An exceptional safety factor is sticky tires you can trust. These cars are super fun if you can control them, and will change the color of your pants if you can't. Good tires area the easiest way to control the car....write the check and have some fun.....Capt. Paul
What about running the Nitto NT-05's on all four corners?
With a 200 Treadwear they might be a good all around choice.
They make them in a 315/35-17 and 255/40-17's would give you just a little rake which will look great.
Yes, that's what I'm leaning towards now. I just wish they had the same size tires I have currently since I'm not sure what fits and what rubs since I just got the car this winter. Do I step up to 255 as you suggested or go down to 235. The 255 is 6/10" shorter. I'm not crazy about going too low on the sidewalls. Hell, that drop might cause my car to drag over my neighborhood speed bumps! So I might have to go with the 235's for that reason.
NT05 comes in these possible fronts:
235/45R17 97W XL 25.35" 9.29 7.5-(8.0)-9.0
255/40ZR17 98W XL 25.08" 10.12 8.5-(9.0)-10.0
My current tires are a perfect height match at:
245/45R17 which is 25.68" tall
315/35R17 which is 25.68" tall
.
Adam
____________________
I finally caught a snake!
MKIV, 347, T5, 3.55. `93 Cobra R brakes, heated seats, PS and lots of custom touches.
After driving my roadster 35,000 miles..... I would rather wear my tires out than have them age out.... Currently using Nitto 01 's. Previously ran Ecta XS. I built my car to drive, lots of HP, lots of traction. When I step on the thin pedal on the right, I want to hook-up and go ! I did not build my car to back off when traction was questioned. Performance cars need performance tires. If my 01's age out.... then I should be exercising my car more ofter !!
Pressing the thin pedal on the right is more fun than I ever imagined !!!!
MK 3.1 IRS, 392, TKO 600, Manual Brakes & Steering, Pin Drive 17"
Thanks to Paul for all his help !!!
255/40-17 is actually a better fit on a 9" rim; 245/45-17 winds up a bit stretched. You definitely wouldn't want to try to use a 235.
I've been through 4 sets of the 255/40-17 & 315/35-17 combination and went to 275/40 in front last season when I switched from the NT-01 to R888R. Just FYI here is what's left of a set of 01s after about 5,000 miles:
Jeff,
I just read your comments here as well. I would love to get 275's up front if they will not rub on the fender. It's VERY close up there now. I'll try and take a few pics and measurements today. But I do see that the 275 gives a good ride height.
FFR recommends the 245/45 on this set of 17's as you know.
Oh, and nice job finishing your plate on those tires.
Jeff,
I would love to get 275's up front if they will not rub on the fender. It's VERY close up there now.
It will be very dependent on 3 things---1. Which spindles? 2. Whether the wheelwell returns were properly trimmed and finished? 3. How much caster and to a lesser extent camber?
FFR recommends the 245/45 on this set of 17's as you know.
They work but I feel that 255/40 work better
How do the R888R compare to the NT01?
On track and course the NT-01 seem to like a little more split in F/R air pressure (I observed this when comparing them to the Kumho XS as well) than the R888R but otherwise they are very similar.
Here are some pics that may help you help me. As you know, I just acquired the car this winter, so I don't know the alignment specs. But I do feel like the front tires are almost at max width without protruding from the fenders any further. The builder told me he did trim the fender wells, and I took a pic to show this. It does appear to be trimmed down. I like the current stance and would not want to lower the front tire sidewall much, if at all (I'm in NY and we have major potholes, plus I have VERY large speed bumps in my neighborhood). I see I'm limiting myself now based on size.
(not sure why two pics are upside down. they are not that way on my camera or PC)
Jeff knows the the MK-4 and Daytona platforms like the back of his hands so his advice is Top Notch.
Any recommendation he gives us is based 100% on first hand knowledge so we get to skip the tough part of the learning curve.
Sir Jeffski builds these cars, races them, paints them and helps everyone else with all our crazy questions.
He even helps the very few of the guys who stuff Chevy engines & 6 Speed transmissions into them.
Good Luck From The Dark Dart Side!
ok, so after re-reading the comments here (thanks, everyone) and scouring the internet for sizing, it seems to me that my best compromise and my best bet in meeting all my desired requirements is the NT01's:
I'll just wait for the virus to pass to make sure the world doesn't end right after I order them! I do want to also drive the current XS's in the warm temps for comparison before ditching them. Oh, and of course, I'll have to add some wear on those back tires before they go. I wonder how I can do that?
From your photos I can see that you have the Factory Five proprietary spindles and the front wheelwells have only been minimally trimmed. Once again my recommendation is 255/40 rather than 245/45. As I said I feel that they fit the rim better (take a look and I bet you'll see that your wheel lip is even with or actually farther out than the tire sidewall) in addition to putting a little more rubber on the ground which is a good thing since with the factory spring rate these cars understeer...your choice. Also your choice, you might want to consider having DTD heat cycle the tires. I always have mine done; they'll last a little longer and grip as soon as you mount them up rather than being greasy for a couple hundred miles while they scuff in and wear off the mold release agents.
Yes, very close by. Wanna come for a ride or visit? Probably not the best time since we are on mandatory lockdown as of 9pm. 100% of businesses shut down aside from 'essential' ones.
Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner
From your photos I can see that you have the Factory Five proprietary spindles and the front wheelwells have only been minimally trimmed. Once again my recommendation is 255/40 rather than 245/45. As I said I feel that they fit the rim better (take a look and I bet you'll see that your wheel lip is even with or actually farther out than the tire sidewall) in addition to putting a little more rubber on the ground which is a good thing since with the factory spring rate these cars understeer...your choice. Also your choice, you might want to consider having DTD heat cycle the tires. I always have mine done; they'll last a little longer and grip as soon as you mount them up rather than being greasy for a couple hundred miles while they scuff in and wear off the mold release agents.
Jeff
Jeff,
This is great info, thanks. Yes, I see what you mean about the sidewalls in relation to the rims. See pics of both front and rears.
Hmm, so a 255 vs 245 is 10mm, so the tire will move out of the fender another 5mm. Hopefully that won't throw tons of stones at the paint.
And 255/40 vs 245/45 is an 8mm drop (or about 1/3"). I'm just worried about giving up the clearance, but maybe it's not that big of a deal. (I have touched the speed bumps twice before if I don't crawl down them.)
I'll certainly think this over. I got time.
I never heard of doing heat cycling. how much does it cost? How do you request it? I assume I have to call in the order?
I bounce between New Orleans and New York, specifically Melville when I'm on Long Island.
My pals in Melville get frustrated with me because I always ask them take me to get pizza every time I'm there.
Pizza in Melville is like Gumbo down here and New Orleans really doesn't have the real deal because Papa Johns, Domino & Pizza Hut just isn't even close.
On another note, we've been put on lock-down too since NOLA is a real hot spot which was likely made worse by the Mardi Gras season which ended at midnight on February 25th.
The next time I'm in your neck of the woods, I'll most certainly look you up.
Adam,
By the way the 255/40 is .63" shorter overall than the 245/45 but the ride height is affected by half that so the front will only be about 1/4" lower.
Jeff,
Yea, .63" lower overall, or about 1/3" less ride height. That's what I said. Probably not much of a difference (unless that's the difference between my frame and those speed bumps! I may just have to go out and measure! lol. Seriously, they are huge and people regularly complain).
Steve,
I get it. I have family in NOLA and love the food there. In Melville, go to Victor's pizza. Best Buffalo slice on LI. I've worked in Melville for 25 years. Everything there is good. but you probably go for a "regular" slice, which is also good. Say hi to Billy and you can tell him Adam said he's got the best pizza in Melville (to which he'd probably say "best on LI, not just Melville!" lol). he's the big, bald guy.
Last edited by AdamIsAdam; 03-22-2020 at 04:46 PM.
.
Adam
____________________
I finally caught a snake!
MKIV, 347, T5, 3.55. `93 Cobra R brakes, heated seats, PS and lots of custom touches.
Gotta throw my 2 cents into this discussion. I have been running NT05's since I built my car. I do not autocross or road course but wanted maximum performance on the street. They worked pretty good at first but at about the 4 year mark and 9000 miles they got really slick, yet still had plenty of tread. After a lot of research I decided to replace the rears with drag radials. So, now the search was on for which one. Ultimately I ended up going with the Toyo Proxes TQ. They seemed to offer a decent tread pattern, for the rare occasion I get caught in the rain, with a 000 tread wear. I got them mounted today. All I can say is WOW! I can nail it from a roll in first and they hardly spin and stayed hooked up well in second too. That's running a 347 with 500+ HP. They do pick up gravel more. I have always heard the sidewalls were softer on a drag radial but these are really stiff. I'm sure the tread will squirm more than a road race tire, but for my use they seem perfect.
That's what I've been saying from the beginning. I really enjoyed and NEEDED to run drag radials on my GTO, but I didn't care if that car could also handle well around a turn. I'm not interested in tracking the Cobra, just being able to control it and put power down.
Let me know how the drag radials handle in all around driving on the street. I mostly afraid of the car getting loose with drag radials on the back. The low profile helps.
Please report back!
.
Adam
____________________
I finally caught a snake!
MKIV, 347, T5, 3.55. `93 Cobra R brakes, heated seats, PS and lots of custom touches.
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Originally Posted by i.e.427
