Enthusiasts and fuel economy

[PhyrraM]

I've got something I can't seem to wrap my head around. Maybe a discussion can brong some light.

Why has the current push for fuel economy in general migrated to the enthusiast's world? I'm from the 818 camp, and there is alot of fuel economy talk in there - even for the gas engines.

Is it really that much of an issue for most folks? Even on a "hobby car" that may take a few years to build and likely only be driven on weekends after that?

Am I a horrible person because I could really give a rat's a** about the mileage of a car I'm building to go fast?

I kinda have this problem with OEM vehicles too. For example "I'd like one of them new Mustangs, but that 22 MPG is just horible, I'm getting the Camero because it gets 25." Really? Do folks back up thier words with action? Do folks really consider a 3 MPG difference as part of thier SPORTS CAR buying descion?


Notice - I say mileage, not emissions equipment - I think any modern engine should be built to retain it's emission equipment.

[1fastsedan]

While I agree with you that as an enthusiast I don't particularly care about gas mileage, there are those that do. In all honesty, it's a cost of ownership - same as maintenance, purchase price, and insurance. Due to the poor economy and high gas prices, its more of a concern to all people than it has been in the past. You (and I) seem to be more emotional car buyers vs the enthusiast might just want something fast so he/she looks at whatever is the best value for going fast.

Of course my daily driver gets 11 mpg on premium around town, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

[Mike N]

I have to ask why not good fuel mileage? Mileage is just a different performance parameter. To build a 50 mpg 818 would be a pretty impressive feat, not for everyone's tastes but still not easy to do. On the other hand for balls out speed and acceleration there is no reason to not have your cake and still be able to eat a little bit too. A NASCAR cup car will get about 4 mpg under green flag race conditions and a F1 car closer to 4.5 mpg. Both engines produce upwards of 800 HP. Under yellow flag traveling 70 to 80 mph they will double that figure no problem so why can't you build a high performance package into a Factory Five 818, Roadster or whatever? Pull the drive train from a new Mustang and put it in a Roadster and you will have a car that's capable of 30 mpg plus on the highway and 11 second quarter miles with a 4 second flat 0-60 time. If you apply current technology it's not tough to do.

[skullandbones]

We did the Mustang / Camaro scenario just as PhyrraM described. The mileage was a major factor but only one that swayed us. It's doing 27.4 mpg at 3000 miles and improving every fillup. That's better than the car it replaced and you get one of the best looking cars that's come out of GM in a long time.

I think the technology you have available for the 818 will make high mileage and high performance (many variations) very attainable. "The sky is the limit"! IMO, WEK.

[PhyrraM]

When talking about a Camry or pretty much any daily driver I can see fuel economy being a large factor. However, if your willing to make all the comprimises neccisary to drive a performance/sports car I would think that fuel economy would be just as easy to shrug off as cargo space, ride quality, ease of enty and exit, visability, cost of tires and maintenance, etc... Yet, apparently for some it isn't.

I *personally* would think that those who value a sports car enough to comprimise on the above list, would also comprimise on economy, OR move over to a "sporty" version of a regular car (Camry>Solara or Altima>Altima Coupe for example) instead of shopping pure (well, relatively pure) sports cars with fuel economy as a factor.

Again, I'm talking Corvettes, Mustangs, Miatas, etc....Cars built to a function. Cars like the '33 Hot Rod, the Roadster, and the GTM. How many of those get built with fuel economy in mind?

[NICK C]

Like the bumper sticker said " I drive way too fast to worry about the price of gas!". Seriously, I think it would be an interesting challange to think milage and have the ability to blow doors off. After all, most people on this forum are inherant problems solvers.

[Someday I Suppose]

To me mileage is important when it comes to daily drivers and much less important for toys. Now the guy thinking about a Mustang vs. a Camaro, if the car is going to be his daily driver and he does 35 miles to work each day, sure it could be a real concern in the buying process. If like me he drives 8 miles to a park and ride and takes the bus the rest of the way, MPG might not be as important. (though I wouldnt want to park a car like that in the bus lot all day.)

As for the 818, I think there are going to be a couple of schools of thought, certainly the performance group, given the weight and power options there are going to be some serious power to weight cars out there which will be awesome. I think you will also have guys looking at the fuel economy side of performance and thinking, this could be kind of cool, a fun sporty car that gets 50+ mpg. One of the first thoughts I had when they started to talk about the 818 was perhaps trying to do a low cost build. If you got a N/A impreza for $4500 and sold off everything you don't use, how low dollar wise could you come in with a street legal ready to drive car, again that is fun to drive, sporty, and has decent fuel economy.

Lots of options with that car, which I think is going to make it great fun to watch and see how people are building them.

[skullandbones]

I believe we are at a tipping point in automotive history. Both Ford and Chevy are marketing what used to be popular muscle cars (no mention of fuel economy in the early adds). Now they both say 300+ hp and 20 something mpg! I had to replay the commercial when I saw it. That's a first. So why is it so hard to believe people want both power and economy in the same car? I agree, getting hp and mpg both would be a real positive for the hot rod builder and a challenge. It might also have a positve effect on the hot rodder's reputation. WEK.

[Mike N]

I can go 600 miles between fill ups in my VW diesel but only about 200 (highway) in my FFR. When you are out cruising with a bunch of Cobras you have to plan fuel stops ahead of time and it seems like you are always stopping, there's a bunch of guys who have to stop about every 100 miles, it's the price you pay (apart from the fuel cost). Just saying..... When I Auto X I would fill up right after I left the house drive an hour make 8 runs and just have enough gas to get home.

[riptide motorsport]

Because I took my brother to lunch today with my C0bra and burned $10 of gas in a blink of an eye!

[skullandbones]

The price of gas is never going back down and the oil companies are aligning themselves as middle men for the alternative technologies (fuel cell, etc). There will be no cheap fuel in the future. Therefore, I guess the fuel cost is another fixed cost that the hot rodder has to allow for.

I miss my 34 Ford sedan with a 350 two barrel. I bought it that way. My hot rodd buddies would kid me on rod runs saying, "that thing makes gas". So you're right about the Cobra runs. You have to plan for the one who gets the worst mpg! What a bummer. WEK.