Ming's MK4 Roadster #9958 Build Thread

[edwardb]

I found some 1/4" aluminum plate on Amazon and made some engine mount shims to give some more space on the driver side.

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First time I've seen anyone have to add an additional shim beyond the 1/2" spacer that Factory Five provides to go inside the motor mounts. Including my Coyote/Mk4 build. It was close, but not as much as yours. I'm betting you could lift the engine out of the mounts just slightly, tip it away from the DS footbox, and drop it back down and it would clear. Even just loosening the motor mount bolts and jacking the engine on the DS (e.g. on the headers) and tightening it back up will move it just enough. It only takes a very slight movement at the mounts to provide clearance. Because the engine mounts kind of wedge into the frame mounts, it will often be off slightly when you put it down and doesn't move. What I'm describing is common for all engines, often when trying to align the side pipes. So nothing new. Having said all that, and assuming you leave it as is, I'm hoping that motor mount nut you pictured isn't tightened? Hard to tell for sure from the picture. There should be threads all the way through the nut and ideally 2-3 outside the nut.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...assuming you leave it as is, I'm hoping that motor mount nut you pictured isn't tightened? Hard to tell for sure from the picture. There should be threads all the way through the nut and ideally 2-3 outside the nut.

Agreed. I had the same thought as Paul when viewing the photo and also noticed that the alignment pin doesn't appear to reach far enough to engage. An additional consideration is that by raising the engine you'll also bring the headers and sidepipes up. Unless you're using J-pipes the Coyotes already require a high cut out on the body for the pipes, especially on the driver's side. Use of this shim will exacerbate that situation.

Just so you know

Jeff

[Merciless]

First time I've seen anyone have to add an additional shim beyond the 1/2" spacer that Factory Five provides to go inside the motor mounts. Including my Coyote/Mk4 build. It was close, but not as much as yours. I'm betting you could lift the engine out of the mounts just slightly, tip it away from the DS footbox, and drop it back down and it would clear. Even just loosening the motor mount bolts and jacking the engine on the DS (e.g. on the headers) and tightening it back up will move it just enough. It only takes a very slight movement at the mounts to provide clearance. Because the engine mounts kind of wedge into the frame mounts, it will often be off slightly when you put it down and doesn't move. What I'm describing is common for all engines, often when trying to align the side pipes. So nothing new. Having said all that, and assuming you leave it as is, I'm hoping that motor mount nut you pictured isn't tightened? Hard to tell for sure from the picture. There should be threads all the way through the nut and ideally 2-3 outside the nut.

[QUOTE=John Ibele;513267]Congrats on getting back to regular exercise

Engine mount - I’m not a coyote guy, so can’t comment directly on your experience regarding clearance. But while I know it’s a tight fit, I haven’t read of anyone having to shim under their mounts, and doing engineering on safety items like this always concerns me. I’d suggest posting this specific item in the main roadster forum to get more eyes on it, if you haven’t already.

Agreed. I had the same thought as Paul when viewing the photo and also noticed that the alignment pin doesn't appear to reach far enough to engage. An additional consideration is that by raising the engine you'll also bring the headers and sidepipes up. Unless you're using J-pipes the Coyotes already require a high cut out on the body for the pipes, especially on the driver's side. Use of this shim will exacerbate that situation.

Just so you know

Jeff

Thank you all for your warnings. Your points are valid. First, I haven't seen other do this, plus your warnings about raising the exhaust really concerned me. As for the alignment pin and the motor mount nut mentioned by Jeff and Paul should be okay. The pin is long enough that it is still inside the motor mount and the nut was not tightened and there's plenty of thread.

So what I did was test fit the exhaust headers as is and measured the height. They were equal. Then I took the shim out and let the passenger side lower as far as possible as Paul suggested. This gave me more clearance from the engine to the DS foot box. The passenger side header dropped 5/8" and the driver's side actually went up >1/2". I think what happened when I first mounted the engine, I tried to keep the engine level left to right, but this makes the clearance between the engine and the DS footbox too tight. Tilting the engine slightly provide the clearance, but lifts the drivers side header. So the shim I had allow the clearance the footbox and the headers to be level and the DS cutout to be 1/2" lower. I'm going to double check my measurements, but I might try it with the shim. What do you guys think? Am I crazy?

[edwardb]

So what I did was test fit the exhaust headers as is and measured the height. They were equal. Then I took the shim out and let the passenger side lower as far as possible as Paul suggested. This gave me more clearance from the engine to the DS foot box. The passenger side header dropped 5/8" and the driver's side actually went up >1/2". I think what happened when I first mounted the engine, I tried to keep the engine level left to right, but this makes the clearance between the engine and the DS footbox too tight. Tilting the engine slightly provide the clearance, but lifts the drivers side header. So the shim I had allow the clearance the footbox and the headers to be level and the DS cutout to be 1/2" lower. I'm going to double check my measurements, but I might try it with the shim. What do you guys think? Am I crazy?

Crazy? No, of course not. But I'd suggest one thing at a time though. The headers moving as much as you described (5/8 and 1/2) is a lot. I've never been able to get them to move that much. But your assumption is getting them level is the goal, and that may not be accurate. The headers and side pipes are not exactly the same side-to-side as the engine sits slightly off center to the right. So the angles and lengths are slightly different. Hundreds (or more?) Coyote builds without adding shims in the motor mount as you're describing. That means something. I'd first of all focus on getting the engine sitting with enough clearance on the DS as needed without any added shims. I don't remember exactly how much mine was, but it was in the 1/8 inch range. Drove it thousands of miles before selling and it was never an issue. Lock the engine down at that point and move on. That may not be what you want to hear but is my advice. The header and side pipe alignment is later when the body is on. There are various means to adjust as needed and you may find they're not exactly symmetrical side-to-side. Trust me, won't be the only thing on the car that's not symmetrical. Even 1/2 inch difference, if it comes to that, isn't an issue and will never be seen. Do you by any chance have the newer ball joint setup on the exhaust? If so, even less of a concern.

[Merciless]

Crazy? No, of course not. But I'd suggest one thing at a time though. The headers moving as much as you described (5/8 and 1/2) is a lot. I've never been able to get them to move that much. But your assumption is getting them level is the goal, and that may not be accurate. The headers and side pipes are not exactly the same side-to-side as the engine sits slightly off center to the right. So the angles and lengths are slightly different. Hundreds (or more?) Coyote builds without adding shims in the motor mount as you're describing. That means something. I'd first of all focus on getting the engine sitting with enough clearance on the DS as needed without any added shims. I don't remember exactly how much mine was, but it was in the 1/8 inch range. Drove it thousands of miles before selling and it was never an issue. Lock the engine down at that point and move on. That may not be what you want to hear but is my advice. The header and side pipe alignment is later when the body is on. There are various means to adjust as needed and you may find they're not exactly symmetrical side-to-side. Trust me, won't be the only thing on the car that's not symmetrical. Even 1/2 inch difference, if it comes to that, isn't an issue and will never be seen. Do you by any chance have the newer ball joint setup on the exhaust? If so, even less of a concern.

Paul, your powers of persuasion are uncanny. Without calling me crazy, you've convinced me with your "Hundreds (or more?) Coyote builds without adding shims" and So for now, I've removed the shims and will see when the exhaust pipes are mounted. Thank you all for your input.