Ming's MK4 Roadster #9958 Build Thread

[Merciless]

We have the hydraulic TOB because that is now standard for blueprint engines. If the decision wasn't made for us though we probably would have gone with number 2 for the reasons Jesse mentioned.

I went with option 2. It was an easy thing to adapt, I never have to worry about the cable stretching/needing to be adjusted and if it failed I would not have to drop the transmission

Jesse, where did you get your master and slave cylinders and hoses? How much?

I'm running a cable on my clutch. if you do, get Forte's OEM Ford cables. I hear the FFR supplied cables are crap. and for $50/pair, it's cheap insurance keeping a spare cable on the shelf or in your trunk.

egchewy79, how did you decide to go with the cable?

Thank you guys for the info. I'll look into it some more.

[Merciless]

Almost my exact same order but mine not scheduled for production till October. I'll be living vicariously through you till then.

Oh man, I was there. I know the feeling. Even when I got the kit, I was super excited until I realized that there were parts missing that held up some of the progress. Now that I have most of the parts, I'm feeling like, why can't I get more done. I didn't realized this, but I paid for lessons in patience - patience for others and patience for myself. October will be around the corner.

[Merciless]

I got stock rear calipers and rotors from ebay. They were dark grey and the front calipers from FFR were sliver.

IMG_5511.jpg

So I decided to paint them. I took a risk and went with yellow. I used POR's caliper paint. Go ahead... you can gasp or laugh. Color choice aside, yellow is hard to paint. Coverage was not so great, I had to touch it up every day over the last week. Every time it dries, some dark spots would show up.

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My wife laughed. She said the calipers look like Minions.

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[Blitzboy54]

Nice! I like the yellow. Very sharp

I used this. There are other options and what transmission you use matters. I have not purchased hoses yet. That’s pretty standard stuff though.


https://www.dazecars.com/dazed/TestT5kit.html

[egchewy79]

No good reason why I chose a cable clutch. I figured I was building a pretty spartan race car, so no power steering, manual brakes, and cable clutch.

[edwardb]

I noticed that almost everyone on the forum has gone to hydraulic clutch and I'm starting the question my decision of staying with the cable clutch. Originally I thought the hydraulic throw out bearing were really cool, but Mike Forte explained that they were not as reliable as the mechanical fork. That popped my hydraulic clutch dreams. My logic was since the fork is been pulled on by a cable, what's the point of putting a hydraulic system with master and slave cylinders. So now, the coyote is here and mated with the tkx. Here are my options.
1. Stay the course with the cable system.
2. Go hydraulic and add the master and slave cylinder to pull on the mechanical fork
3. Go hydraulic all the way. Pull the transmission off and install a hydraulic throw out bearing.

What do you guys think? Thanks.

1. Interesting coming from someone who just happens to sell the external fork parts. And not cheap either. Which I've used several times BTW. Without data, I'd put that in the category of one person's opinion.

2. Check what OEM's are using for manual shift. Internal hydraulic TOB. Pretty much without exception. Granted it's partly driven by cost but they also wouldn't be using them if they weren't reliable. No matter what you think of OEM's, they do long term reliability tests on everything.

3. I have a Tilton hydraulic TOB in my Gen 3 Coupe build. (1) Cheaper. (2) Easy installation. (3) Noticeably lighter pedal and great feel over exact setup with an external setup. (4) Self adjusting. Just like disk brake calipers. No more seasonal adjusting of the brake cable or external hydraulic pushrod. Only 2,200 miles. But it's flawless so far.

4. I've read that for hardcore competition some consider a hydraulic TOB slow reacting. Don't see how that would be any different for any hydraulic setup. And unless a dedicated track machine, not part of the decision IMO.

Is there risk that a failure would result in having to remove the transmission? Sure. But there's also a very good chance that it will last as long or longer than a clutch. Which also happens to require a major teardown.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility.

[GTBradley]

I had a hydraulic clutch on my first car, an MGB from 1963, so they are obviously tried and true. Regarding my build, the way I look at things is, how complex is it, how hard is it to fix later, how much does it weigh, what are it’s benefits and what does it cost? An overly complex approach to a clutch actuator, I know but I decided that since a low complexity cable clutch is very easy to fix, weighs very little and is cheap, then I would go that route. It helped too that I’d heard that actuation effort was similar to both styles. Full disclosure: my clutch cable broke within 1000 miles, but…it was very easy to fix.

[BradCraig]

My Ford cable with the Forte extender works like butter and is simple....cannot imagine hydraulic being of any additional benefit. Just my $.02

[Merciless]

No good reason why I chose a cable clutch. I figured I was building a pretty spartan race car, so no power steering, manual brakes, and cable clutch.

That is a good reason.

[Merciless]

1. Interesting coming from someone who just happens to sell the external fork parts. And not cheap either. Which I've used several times BTW. Without data, I'd put that in the category of one person's opinion.

2. Check what OEM's are using for manual shift. Internal hydraulic TOB. Pretty much without exception. Granted it's partly driven by cost but they also wouldn't be using them if they weren't reliable. No matter what you think of OEM's, they do long term reliability tests on everything.

3. I have a Tilton hydraulic TOB in my Gen 3 Coupe build. (1) Cheaper. (2) Easy installation. (3) Noticeably lighter pedal and great feel over exact setup with an external setup. (4) Self adjusting. Just like disk brake calipers. No more seasonal adjusting of the brake cable or external hydraulic pushrod. Only 2,200 miles. But it's flawless so far.

4. I've read that for hardcore competition some consider a hydraulic TOB slow reacting. Don't see how that would be any different for any hydraulic setup. And unless a dedicated track machine, not part of the decision IMO.

Is there risk that a failure would result in having to remove the transmission? Sure. But there's also a very good chance that it will last as long or longer than a clutch. Which also happens to require a major teardown.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility.

Paul, thank you for the thoughtful analysis. What you said makes a lot of sense.

[Merciless]

I had a hydraulic clutch on my first car, an MGB from 1963, so they are obviously tried and true. Regarding my build, the way I look at things is, how complex is it, how hard is it to fix later, how much does it weigh, what are it’s benefits and what does it cost? An overly complex approach to a clutch actuator, I know but I decided that since a low complexity cable clutch is very easy to fix, weighs very little and is cheap, then I would go that route. It helped too that I’d heard that actuation effort was similar to both styles. Full disclosure: my clutch cable broke within 1000 miles, but…it was very easy to fix.

My Ford cable with the Forte extender works like butter and is simple....cannot imagine hydraulic being of any additional benefit. Just my $.02

Thanks for the feedback. Part of the reason I decided to go with the cable was because I saw your build threads, but there are only a handful for cables compared to the number of hydraulic clutch builds and I was starting to feel a little peer pressure.

[Merciless]

Installed DS front panel. Drilled a bunch of holes, but only 3 could be riveted.
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Pedal assembly. Remember to adjust the distance between clevises before attaching the master cylinders. Ask me how I know.
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Measuring and cutting the master cylinder threads
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[Merciless]

Instructions for the Coyote Pedal starts with surgery. Cutting first and asking questions later usually doesn't end well for me, but I never learn. Wish me luck.

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More surgery on the pedal to fit the mounting bracket
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Others have pointed this out. The provided instructions and the mounting bracket doesn't work. 2 big issues I had were 1) interference with the steering column and 2) the connection interference with the wilwood pedal bracket. To resolve this I had to perform additional surgery on pedal and the mounting plate.
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This is the final location of the pedal. I haven't shorten it as recommended in the instruction yet. It is a little low, but do you think I can try it before more surgery?
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[Merciless]

I was a bit over zealous on drilling the DD shafts. I did them both even though I think the instructions only specified the 1" DD.

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When assembling, I decided to try with the footbox bearing on the outside. Things are very crowded inside the footbox. But I might have to shorten the one of the shafts.
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With the RT turn signal assembly. It requires the upper pillow bearing block to be slightly modified.
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[Merciless]

I got my 255 lph fuel pump and fuel return from Breeze. When I first received the fuel pump I surprised to see that the 1/4" return line was pinched off. When I asked, Mark explained that it was too small and created too much jetting and air was getting picked up by the pump. Now he supplies a separate 6 an return. It requires additional surgery on that tank. I set up a vacuum in the tank before I started drilling in the tank.
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Return nozzle installed
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Picture inside the tank showing the sock filter sitting inside the suction weir. Yellow hose is the return line. Because the flow is so high, the return also needs to be inside the weir.
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Filler pipe installed
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[egchewy79]

looking good. i had a lot of trouble keeping the sock on the end of my pump hanger while placing it in the sump. at this point in your build, you might want to consider swapping out the kit-provided pipe filler gasket with an OEM one. I hear that the FFR gasket/seal is prone to leaking down the road.
PN# F4zz9072da

[Merciless]

looking good. i had a lot of trouble keeping the sock on the end of my pump hanger while placing it in the sump. at this point in your build, you might want to consider swapping out the kit-provided pipe filler gasket with an OEM one. I hear that the FFR gasket/seal is prone to leaking down the road.
PN# F4zz9072da

Thank you for the heads up. I've seen others mention this on their build threads, but my wishful thinking and desire to keep to a budget is telling me to wait and see. I'm thinking that before I permanently install the body, I still can change it out without more trouble than now. More than likely I'll be saying, "you and everyone else on the forum was right!"

[Merciless]

Started on the RT Drop Trunk. I used a grinder. I realized that RT's instructions specified 1/2" over hang for the cut out over the box. I don't think I've seen anyone to that on the forum.
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For the notches, I first used the grinder, then used a knife to score. Aluminum is pretty easy to snap off after a couple of wiggles.
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[Railroad]

Thank you for the heads up. I've seen others mention this on their build threads, but my wishful thinking and desire to keep to a budget is telling me to wait and see. I'm thinking that before I permanently install the body, I still can change it out without more trouble than now. More than likely I'll be saying, "you and everyone else on the forum was right!"

The tank filler seal provided by F5 is too much of a risk, to not change out. Definitely, before you put gas in the tank. I, like you thought, reported issues were random, or installation problems. I oiled the filler neck and rubber seal and all went well. I kept reading about more issues and finally checked mine. It was starting to seep gasoline. Upon removal of the original seal, I found the lip had split without reason.
That blew my theory of installation issues, out of the water.
Buy the Ford part and you take the risk of a fire or house explosion out of your build.

[Merciless]

The tank filler seal provided by F5 is too much of a risk, to not change out. Definitely, before you put gas in the tank. I, like you thought, reported issues were random, or installation problems. I oiled the filler neck and rubber seal and all went well. I kept reading about more issues and finally checked mine. It was starting to seep gasoline. Upon removal of the original seal, I found the lip had split without reason.
That blew my theory of installation issues, out of the water.
Buy the Ford part and you take the risk of a fire or house explosion out of your build.

Oh man!! You've convinced me with the house fire.

[Nigel Allen]

Thank you for the heads up. I've seen others mention this on their build threads, but my wishful thinking and desire to keep to a budget is telling me to wait and see. I'm thinking that before I permanently install the body, I still can change it out without more trouble than now. More than likely I'll be saying, "you and everyone else on the forum was right!"

G'day Ming,

egchewy and Railroad are spot on. Regarding your build budget, think of it this way... your budget for fuel will look a lot better, when your not sloshing fuel out of a split filler gasket as you drive down the road. Mine has just failed too and I followed the same installation method as Railroad.

Best of luck with your build budget. I have found that you only ever really put a down payment on one of these cars. The ongoing payments, just keep comin'

Likely I will have to order a gasket from the US. Anyone got the genuine part number handy?

Thanks,

Nigel

[Blitzboy54]

I missed all this about the filler grommet. Just ordered a Ford part and will change out as soon as I get it. I probably have less than a gallon in the tank so no biggie but wish I had done it before fueling up.

[Merciless]

G'day Ming,

egchewy and Railroad are spot on. Regarding your build budget, think of it this way... your budget for fuel will look a lot better, when your not sloshing fuel out of a split filler gasket as you drive down the road. Mine has just failed too and I followed the same installation method as Railroad.

Best of luck with your build budget. I have found that you only ever really put a down payment on one of these cars. The ongoing payments, just keep comin'

Likely I will have to order a gasket from the US. Anyone got the genuine part number handy?

Thanks,

Nigel

G'day Nigel,

Thank ya for the advice. Lots of nostalgia getting a message from an Aussie. Lived in Perth for four years. Would be an absolute dream to be able to drive one of these cars Down Under. I think the egchewy79 provided the part number above. PN# F4zz9072da

Cheers mate.

[Railroad]

I missed all this about the filler grommet. Just ordered a Ford part and will change out as soon as I get it. I probably have less than a gallon in the tank so no biggie but wish I had done it before fueling up.

Jack up that side of the car. 1 gallon, you should be good. Do it outside.

[Nigel Allen]

G'day Nigel,

Thank ya for the advice. Lots of nostalgia getting a message from an Aussie. Lived in Perth for four years. Would be an absolute dream to be able to drive one of these cars Down Under. I think the egchewy79 provided the part number above. PN# F4zz9072da

Cheers mate.

Hey Ming,

You gotta love Perth, a truly beautiful city. I live near the Adelaide hills, hundreds of great driving roads to choose from. Finished my Mk4 a couple of years ago and have been really enjoying it. One of these days I will post some video. First I need to buy a suitable camera, learn how to use it, learn how to edit, learn how to post on You tube. Might take me a little while...

I never did a build log, something which I regret. Keep up the good work recording your efforts.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Merciless]

Pretty excited about getting tires on my wheels. When I started test fitting I realizing just how tight everything was.

IMG_6290.jpg

The wheel is basically touching the spring coils. I was able to fix that by flipping the Koni coil over shock. Now it matched the front wheels.

The wheel is also touch the stock calipers. The outside corner of the caliper is scraping the inside of the wheel. The balancing weights hits the top of the calipers.
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It almost seem like I need a spacer between the brake rotor and the wheel to push the wheel out by at least 1/4" and the weights need to be relocated closer to the inside edge of the wheel. Alternatively, I can grind down the calipers to stop the rubbing. Anyone else with stock 2015-19 mustang gt rear calipers and 17" wheels have this problem?

[Fman]

Pretty excited about getting tires on my wheels. When I started test fitting I realizing just how tight everything was.

IMG_6290.jpg

The wheel is basically touching the spring coils. I was able to fix that by flipping the Koni coil over shock. Now it matched the front wheels.

The wheel is also touch the stock calipers. The outside corner of the caliper is scraping the inside of the wheel. The balancing weights hits the top of the calipers.
IMG_6294.JPG IMG_6293.JPG IMG_6292.jpg IMG_6291.jpg

It almost seem like I need a spacer between the brake rotor and the wheel to push the wheel out by at least 1/4" and the weights need to be relocated closer to the inside edge of the wheel. Alternatively, I can grind down the calipers to stop the rubbing. Anyone else with stock 2015-19 mustang gt rear calipers and 17" wheels have this problem?

I have the GT calipers, 17" wheels and rear IRS IMO you should not have to grind anything something is not correct. Make sure you have assembled the caliper brackets correctly, it is a little confusing and needs to be double checked in the manual. You might have the spring coil rub the tire but that is alignment issue that will resolve itself when properly aligned. One thing I did have to do on the rear is have a custom made brake lines that would not hit the tire. FFR gave me very long lines for the rear and I could not make them work. If you run into this issue techna fit can make them for you for a reasonable price.

[Merciless]

I have the GT calipers, 17" wheels and rear IRS IMO you should not have to grind anything something is not correct. Make sure you have assembled the caliper brackets correctly, it is a little confusing and needs to be double checked in the manual. You might have the spring coil rub the tire but that is alignment issue that will resolve itself when properly aligned. One thing I did have to do on the rear is have a custom made brake lines that would not hit the tire. FFR gave me very long lines for the rear and I could not make them work. If you run into this issue techna fit can make them for you for a reasonable price.

Thank you for the advice. My brake lines seem fine right now, but maybe once I fix the caliper issue, it might change that. I'm curious, did you have a relocation bracket for the calipers? I bolted mine straight to the IRS knuckle. Do you have any pictures of how your calipers looked and mounted?

Thank you.

[Merciless]

I have the GT calipers, 17" wheels and rear IRS IMO you should not have to grind anything something is not correct. Make sure you have assembled the caliper brackets correctly, it is a little confusing and needs to be double checked in the manual. You might have the spring coil rub the tire but that is alignment issue that will resolve itself when properly aligned. One thing I did have to do on the rear is have a custom made brake lines that would not hit the tire. FFR gave me very long lines for the rear and I could not make them work. If you run into this issue techna fit can make them for you for a reasonable price.

Travis,

I found your build thread - awesome job on your build and thanks for the detailed documentation. I realize that you have a different rear caliper and you have a relocation bracket from FFR. In hindsight, I probably should have gone that route. FFR responded to my question over Thanksgiving and said their engineers recommend a 1/8" spacer. I may end up with a combination of a spacer and grinding down the top of the calipers to clear the weights.

Thank you.

[jiriza84641]

Build is coming along very nice, keep it up!

[Merciless]

Almost a year from my last post. Lots have happened - helped a friend add a bathroom to their townhouse, renovated two of my bathrooms, travelled to Yellowstone, Grand Teton, Glacier National, Maui. No real good excuses except it's a little like exercising. Once I stop it's hard to get started again. Well at least I'm starting back on the build and the posting. I'll leave exercising for a new years resolution.

So picking up where I left off. The 1/8" spacers came in and I ground off the bump off the calipers and the wheels now fit.
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[Nigel Allen]

Great to see you back at it.

[Merciless]

I actually dropped the coyote in a while back. It's very tight on the drivers side. It's actually even worse than the pictures after I adjusted it to sit lower in the mount. The wires were touching the foot box. I'm planning on using 1/4" aluminum to shim the driver's side engine mount. I mocked it with a piece of 1/4" wood and it looked better.

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[Merciless]

Great to see you back at it.

Thanks Nigel for the encouragement. Thank you for still cheering us slow ones along.

[Nigel Allen]

Thanks Nigel for the encouragement. Thank you for still cheering us slow ones along.

You're welcome. it took me 7 years, but who's counting.

[John Ibele]

Not me. I ran out of fingers at ten this year. We arrange our lives and our builds however we want

[Merciless]

I found some 1/4" aluminum plate on Amazon and made some engine mount shims to give some more space on the driver side.

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[Merciless]

I bought the fan shroud like most others, but I didn't buy the radiator mounting kit. Fortunately, Home Depot had some SS piano hinges, zinc all-thread, aluminum tube and misc hardware that I was able to piece together a mounting kit. Hopefully it won't fall apart.

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The lower radiator hose took some trial and error - a lot of error.
First, I tried the corrugated SS hose, but it touched the steering column and the alternator.

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Then, I tried the rubber hose, but it wasn't going the right direction and was never going to reach the radiator.

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So, I realized that I might need to use a combination of the two.

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[Merciless]

I made up some supports with aluminum angles so that the tank is close to vertical. I'm pretty concerned that hood hinge hardware will interfere with the tank mounting brackets. Anyone have any comments or suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.

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[Merciless]

I want a glovebox. But I have a heater. Instead of moving the heater forward a bit and getting a beautifully made off the shelf glovebox, I'm going to try to make my own. I don't really know how, but this is my attempt. First, I found some old manila folders, taped them together and fit it in the dash and in front of the heater. Then flatten the paper out on top of some aluminum flashing as a template.

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I've started gluing it together with epoxy and is thinking about epoxying it to the dash. Thinking forward, I really have no idea how transition the faux leather upholstery from the dash to the inside of the glovebox. Anyone have any suggestions on making outside corner seams look nice?