Carl's and Phil's Mk4 Roadster Build Thread

[mbisett]

Great thread - keep up the great work.

[BadAsp427]

Looks dam good. I would really start looking at getting your fuel and brake lines run as well as your wiring. If you get much more of the panels installed, you could run into some problems. I built mine alone, It would have been great to have my son helping me. Enjoy these times and memories.

[hineas]

You did all that in a week?!?!?

We did. Thanks!

It was an awesome week, and I probably put in about 60-70 hours in the car. My nephew and brother probably did another 60 hours between them. Just the way our schedule worked we had the time to do a lot.

It does go a lot faster with 3 people. On the aluminum we were lucky that my nephew (he just turned 16) loved riveting. While he was putting in rivets my brother and I would fit and drill the next panels. That made panels go in so much faster.

We also were able to be doing multiple steps simultaneously. For example, while I was prepping the fuel pickup my brother was installing the sending unit and my nephew was putting in the filler tube. On the rear end I installed brakes on one side while my brother and nephew did the other side.

The other reason is that my schedule (I work shift work) gives me a ton of time off. I only do 11-14 shifts a month, and so I had the entire week completely off so I put in 6 full days.

Now the issue is that I have no free time to work on the car for about a month, so this thread will be at a relative standstill for a month. My brother will finish up some of our projects as we get parts. Factory Five sent off the correct sized rod end for the panhard bar, so he will install that when it comes. He will probably route fuel lines and mount the fuel pump. He might even start running the wiring harness before I get back next month.

Honestly, though, if he can finish those, we might be able to install the engine next month.

Our long term plan is to get this one built, then build a second one with a lot of modifications and do a longer build. This one is pretty close to "by the book" so we can learn, then next one will be a much more custom build.

[hineas]

Looks dam good. I would really start looking at getting your fuel and brake lines run as well as your wiring. If you get much more of the panels installed, you could run into some problems. I built mine alone, It would have been great to have my son helping me. Enjoy these times and memories.

Thank you!

Our plan is routing the brake and fuel lines next. We will take your advice and hold off on any more panels.

It has been awesome spending this time with my brother and his son. His son is the perfect age that he is actuality a huge help.

[egchewy79]

if you're planning on doing the kleiner mod (nut coupler for the rear QJ bolts), it's easier to do now. you'll need to drop the gas tank to get that lower PS bolt in place.

[hineas]

if you're planning on doing the kleiner mod (nut coupler for the rear QJ bolts), it's easier to do now. you'll need to drop the gas tank to get that lower PS bolt in place.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

We are doing the drop trunk so I figure I need to do the Kleiner mod. I didn't realize now is the time!

[txboiler]

Thanks! I haven't received the manual yet, I just ordered my kit. I was hoping to get a jump on it a little ahead of the delivery.

I was able to download the complete roadster version from the factory five website.

[hineas]

I was able to download the complete roadster version from the factory five website.

I did the same thing and I think I read the manual 4 times as well as reading countless build threads. It has really helped me.

[hineas]

I am looking for a body buck design - any chance you share yours with me.

Sorry, I never took that picture and I'm not at my brother's house. Like txboiler said, we too just downloaded the manual.

[Blitzboy54]

We did. Thanks!

It was an awesome week, and I probably put in about 60-70 hours in the car. My nephew and brother probably did another 60 hours between them. Just the way our schedule worked we had the time to do a lot.

It does go a lot faster with 3 people. On the aluminum we were lucky that my nephew (he just turned 16) loved riveting. While he was putting in rivets my brother and I would fit and drill the next panels. That made panels go in so much faster.

We also were able to be doing multiple steps simultaneously. For example, while I was prepping the fuel pickup my brother was installing the sending unit and my nephew was putting in the filler tube. On the rear end I installed brakes on one side while my brother and nephew did the other side.

The other reason is that my schedule (I work shift work) gives me a ton of time off. I only do 11-14 shifts a month, and so I had the entire week completely off so I put in 6 full days.

Now the issue is that I have no free time to work on the car for about a month, so this thread will be at a relative standstill for a month. My brother will finish up some of our projects as we get parts. Factory Five sent off the correct sized rod end for the panhard bar, so he will install that when it comes. He will probably route fuel lines and mount the fuel pump. He might even start running the wiring harness before I get back next month.

Honestly, though, if he can finish those, we might be able to install the engine next month.

Our long term plan is to get this one built, then build a second one with a lot of modifications and do a longer build. This one is pretty close to "by the book" so we can learn, then next one will be a much more custom build.

Mine shows up next week. I have a month to get inventoried, settled and start with the panels. My dad will then come out for a week. I'm hoping to both bond and take a big chunk out of it, but mostly bond.

[hineas]

That is great that your dad will come out. Having somebody to be there makes it so much better, and having extra hands and eyes makes it less frustrating too.
I'm excited for you! I agree with the previous comments that taking your time on the inventory is a huge help.

[OSU Cowboy]

I've got an MK3.1 3-link. Strongly recommend - while its easier and more accessible, that you put in the rear lower control arms from Breeze with the heim joints in either end ... I've got nearly 9K miles on mine, probably less than 1K with the heim-jointed rear control arms from Breeze and it made a noticeable difference in the suspension performance.

[hineas]

I'll look into it. What differences did you notice?

[hineas]

I don't have a lot to update since I have been working a ton so I haven't been able to go back up to my brother's house. However, last week we received the rear shock mounting hardware and my brother was able to finish installing the rear shocks. The package also had the correct rod end for the panhard bar, so he installed that as well.

It is official, the rear end is now finished!

shock.jpeg

Last but not least, there are two boxes coming from Factor Five! The tracking number says that is is 45 lbs worth of parts, so hopefully that means a large portion of the POL will be in those boxes. I had emailed FFR about a week or so ago, and from what they said I don't think it will include the power steering rack and the front spindles since those weren't in stock as of a week ago. However, they said they have the front shocks, the master cylinders, gauges, front lower control arms, and then a bunch of things we won't do for a while (like badges). I suspect that the box includes most of these things.

Factory Five did say the front spindle still isn't in stock, but they have the older version if I want those. He said that the older version is the OEM mustang geometry and not specifically made for the FFR roadster. The question is do we wait for the new spindles (likely arrive at FFR in a month or so) or get the old spindle sooner? Any know more details on the difference between the old vs. new spindles?

[hineas]

It has been a while since I was able to work on the car, but I was finally able to get some work done today. My brother and I started at about 7:30 am this morning and worked until 11:00 pm. We got a lot done.

Our master cylinders arrived last week, so we installed those. We also routed the brake lines. I thought getting the rigid lines bent to come out of the foot box was tough. There was a lot of head scratching trying to figure it out. It was quite frustrating at times but we got it done. We aren't going to win any awards for pretty bends, but we didn't kink any of the lines!

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We ended up following Papa's routing of the front line across the front of the X tubes. The front battery box was in the way of the route the manual suggested. Thanks Papa!

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We followed the manual suggestion of taking the rear rigid line down the front of the foot box. Sadly, our route meant that we had to use a short extension between the two long lines, but it should be fine.

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[hineas]

We also routed the fuel lines along the 4" round tube. We ran it on the outside of the tube. We mounted the electric fuel pump pretty close to the recommendation from BluePrint. We put the pump at the lowest point and it is below the gas tank.

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[hineas]

We also installed the Breeze front battery box. That was a challenge, but it looks like it will be solid. I am very impressed with it.

We don't have an air riveter and have done all the rivets by hand. The 3/16" stainless steel rivets in the front battery box kit were an absolute pain. It required so much force to pull the rivets that I am going to be pretty sore tomorrow. We finally got them installed and I'm glad we did it.

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[hineas]

Yesterday was also a full day with a lot of tasks completed.

First off I spent time modifying the front upper control arms to allow for more castor. I cut off about a 1/4" from the sleeve and the corresponding threaded rods. It turned out great. Cutting the sleeve was easy. I just used a jig saw with a metal blade. It took about one minute per cut. The threaded rod, however, was built of sterner stuff. After going through one blade and only cutting about 2 mm deep, I ended up just using an angle grinder. Sadly I didn't have any cutting wheels so I just ground it down. I highly recommend using a cutting wheel. The amount of time I saved by not going to the hardware store was less than the time it took to grind the bolts down. The end result was great, though, and I am pleased.

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While I was doing that my brother built the coil over assembly and instalation the lower control arms. The lower control arms needed a pry bar to get the holes aligned, but we finally got it installed.

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While tightening down the control arms I realized that those deformed thread lock nuts require quite a bit of muscle to tighten! I had to convince myself it wasn't cross threaded before applying enough force to tighten it.

[hineas]

I also did the initial routing of the wiring harness. I'm going to have to spend some time figuring out how to connect the EFI because the wiring is all new to me. Luckily the initial layout was simple!

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Attaching the fuse box aluminum mounting panel was a pain though. There were some plastic tabs in the way, and I ended up making a notch in one so the panel would fit right. You can see the small notch I cut out in the next picture.

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[hineas]

We also installed the brakes and clutch reservoirs. We ended up mounting them on the 3/4" tube in front of the foot box. We just cut a piece of aluminum from the unused pedal footbox panel. I hope this reservoir location will work with the body. From what I read in other threads it should be fine. The front reservoir is less than 11" from the footbox, so I think it will miss the hood hardware. If you don't think it will work, let me know!

Attachment 144976

We then routed the hoses to the master cylinders. I used the left over grommet from the wiring harness and put it in the large, unused hole on the foot box. It fit remarkably well.

All we need to do now is route a hose to the clutch.

Attachment 144977

Attachment 144978

[hineas]

Like I said, it was a great weekend. We installed the master cylinders, routed all the hard brake lines, installed the front battery box, mounted the fuel pump and ran the fuel lines, laid out the wiring harness, modified the front upper control arms, installed the front lower control arms and coil over assembly, mounted the brake and clutch reservoirs, and then some small odds and ends that I am probably forgetting.

I won't be able to work on the car for a few weeks. Next time I get back to the car it will be time to install the engine!

[NYMike]

Looks like you guys are making some really great progress! Those deformed thread nuts were crazy. I was using a 2 foot long 1/2 drive ratchet to run those on. I couldn't believe it and was cringing the whole time.

Thanks for the tip on the front brake lines! We are probably going to be running those this weekend and are planning on doing the front battery as well.

[hineas]

I know! When I was tightening those deformed nuts the first time it creaked I thought I broke something. My brother was working on the coil over assembly on the other side and when it creaked he immediately stopped and asked what I broke. I'm just glad I had read other threads and knew they took some muscle or else I would have been really worried.

I based my front line off of this post by Papa. The front brake line won't fit with the front battery box so that is why I did it this way.
It does look close to the power steering rack (which I don't have yet, it is on my POL), so I hope it doesn't cause any issues with that.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post289508

Lastly, our build goes in spurts because I am building it with my brother and I have to travel 300 miles to get to his house. That means when I am there we spend ALL day building. I think I put in 26 hours of build time this weekend (Saturday and Sunday). Now it is on hold again for at least 2-3 weeks.

[NYMike]

I know! When I was tightening those deformed nuts the first time it creaked I thought I broke something. My brother was working on the coil over assembly on the other side and when it creaked he immediately stopped and asked what I broke. I'm just glad I had read other threads and knew they took some muscle or else I would have been really worried.

I based my front line off of this post by Papa. The front brake line won't fit with the front battery box so that is why I did it this way.
It does look close to the power steering rack (which I don't have yet, it is on my POL), so I hope it doesn't cause any issues with that.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post289508

Lastly, our build goes in spurts because I am building it with my brother and I have to travel 300 miles to get to his house. That means when I am there we spend ALL day building. I think I put in 26 hours of build time this weekend (Saturday and Sunday). Now it is on hold again for at least 2-3 weeks.

Sounds like a great excuse to spend time with your brother. 26 hours is pretty impressive for only 2 days!

[hineas]

It definitely is great spending time with him. Maybe I should build one with each of my brothers. That would be 4 cobras. Sounds great to me!

[hineas]

I was able to work on the car again yesterday. It was an exciting day and we installed the engine! None of us have ever done that and it went much more smoothly than I expected. We did accidentally attach the battery ground to the engine mount (ooops). Not a big deal, but we didn't realize it until after we had the engine in place. We took the bolt from the block and put the right ground strap on, but the hole shifted ever so slightly so we couldn't get the bolt back in. We ended up having to put the hoist back together and lift the engine about 1/4" to get the holes lined up. Ooops...

It was really nice because our dad was able to be there for the engine install too!



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[hineas]

The transmission mount took us a while. It wasn't hard, but we had to figure out the orientation of the transmission mount and A-frame. We ended up installing the mount 3-4 times until we figured out the orientation we liked.

We then installed the headers. That went smoothly. It took a little while because there isn't much room to get a wrench in the bolts, but it went on easily with no issues.

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We also bought the hardware for the Kleiner modification. Now we can build the trunk aluminum and drop trunk!

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[NYMike]

Looks like you guys had a great weekend. Engine looks great in there!

[Blitzboy54]

Nice progress! I am totally going to steal your 3rd grommet idea for the reservoir hoses.

[hineas]

Nice progress! I am totally going to steal your 3rd grommet idea for the reservoir hoses.

Thanks! I thought the grommet turned out great there. It was a little hard to get it in place since that area has the thick steel plate behind the aluminum panel.

[hineas]

Yesterday we installed the coolant system. It went pretty well. I did the modification where I put 3 rivets on the edge of the corrugated tube to give the hose clamps something to prevent the tube from slipping out. I wish I took a picture, but I forgot. I also think we will get the Breeze lower radiator mount as well.

One thing we haven't figured out is where to put the coolant expansion tank. We might build a brace for the X-tubes up front, but we haven't decided yet. Currently it is zip tied to the front driver's side of the frame, but this is just temporary. Any suggestions on location would be helpful!

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We also shortened the positive battery cable and attached that to the starter solenoid. We then started on the EFI wiring. We have done some of the wiring, including the fuel pump and oxygen sensor, but we have more to do on that front.

All in all, it was a great 2 days!

[Blitzboy54]

Nice, I have to figure out the EFI wiring myself. I'm kinda glad your a little ahead on that front. I'm following your lead.

[hineas]

Feel free to ask questions! Sadly I won't get back to the car until the beginning of May, so maybe you will be better at it than me by then.

We spent a lot of time with the Holley Sniper EFI manual, the Ron Francis FFR harness manual, and the FAQ from BluePrint. We had all three documents open trying to figure out where to pull the 12V switched power. We saw one line in the BluePrint FAQ that says the 12V switched power can use the electric choke wire on the harness. Hopefully that works!

[hineas]

Funny story about the transmission mount. We couldn't figure out the orientation for the metal plate that came with the mount. We installed it with every orientation possible. I scoured the instruction manual, but it just said something like, "install the transmission mount." There was just no other explainable. We also searched on the forums but nobody else seemed to have this question. After trying multiple orientations of the mount, we decided that only one orientation of the plate made sense. We booked it down and we were happy with the results.

The next day I was putting some things away and I found a piece of paper on the floor that was partially hidden. I unfolded it and saw that it was the instructions for the transmission mount! I guess when one of us opened it the paper fell out and we didn't realize it. No wonder nobody else had this issue, the included instructions were perfectly clear! At least we installed it correctly without the instructions...

[hineas]

I finally got back out to work on the car. I spent half a day working. We cleaned up some wiring for the EFI. We are almost finished hooking up the EFI which is a good feeling.

We installed the heater. I completely forgot to do that before the engine install so that made it a little bit harder, but there was still enough space to get it done. The template was way off for the firewall. Make sure you check the holes in the template, including the screw holes. I'm glad I read that other people had the same issue so I caught it before I cut any holes.

We haven't done the wiring or ducts for the heater, but we got the blower and core installed. I need to get some heater hose and connect it up. Time to search the forums on where I want my return line and water temp sending unit for the dash. I have the EFI and BluePrint has the EFI water temp sensor in the intake manifold on the driver's side. I figure I can have the heater return go into the corresponding port on the intake manifold but on the passenger side. I assume I'll need a sensor for the dash. Can I connect this into the slightly smaller port that is plugged in the thermostat housing or is it better to use the drain plug in the radiator?

We also worked on the parking brake. I had read that other people reversed the button head screws at the base of the handle so the head was next to the aluminum panels instead of the nuts. There is no way it would have fit the way it said in the manual. With changing those two bolts it fit almost perfectly. We bent one corner of the aluminum that was in the way and the handle moves well. We ran the cables but we can't connect them to the handle because our dolly is in the way. We are close to a fully rolling chassis (if the front spindles ever get here) so we will just connect it then.

Here is my nephew cutting the firewall for the heater:
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Here is the E-brake handle:
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And we put the rear tires on. It looked good!
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[NYMike]

Looks great! Glad you got some time back in the garage. We put ours in the thermostat housing, but I'm not sure that is where it's going to stay. I'm worried that it wont read correctly when the thermostat is closed in both that spot or the radiator drain. Might try to come up with a creative T fitting in that other port in the intake so the heater and sender can share it. Something along the lines of what D Stand suggested in my build thread.

[hineas]

Looks great! Glad you got some time back in the garage. We put ours in the thermostat housing, but I'm not sure that is where it's going to stay. I'm worried that it wont read correctly when the thermostat is closed in both that spot or the radiator drain. Might try to come up with a creative T fitting in that other port in the intake so the heater and sender can share it. Something along the lines of what D Stand suggested in my build thread.

I haven't looked through the inventory list to find the water temp sending unit to see the thread size. Did you need an adapter to fit it into the thermostat port?

My personal thought is that for a dash gauge I don't mind if it isn't accurate before the thermostat opens since I care only if it is overheating... if I want more accurate Temps I will pull out the EFI screen to monitor that temp (I assume I can monitor it with the screen).

[hineas]

Today we spent more time on the car. We spent a long time on the Russ Thompson drop trunk. We built the box, trimmed the edges, cut the floor, and started installing trunk panels. Wow, this whole process takes a lot of time. So far it has been simple, but time consuming. We probably put 4-6 hours on it today and we aren't finished. Granted, we are doing all of the aluminum behind the cockpit, not just the drop trunk. Even though it is time consuming, the product is built phenomenally well and I highly recommend it.

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All we have left to do on the trunk is to rivet the floor and the corner pieces.

We also riveted the rear transmission tunnel corner on since we just never got around to that before.

While my brother and I were working on the drop trunk my nephew asked when we will put the side pipes on. Since we are so close to go-karting we told him to just start on it. He found all the parts and hooked it up. We haven't fully installed them, but we did enough to hold them in place until the body gets out on. I was able to get them aligned to the frame really well. Interestingly, our driver side pipe took about an hour to get it aligned nicely and the passenger took 5 minutes. However, the passenger pipe is pushed back and there is a huge gap between the hanger and the frame. The rubber hanger was about an inch behind the frame. We ended up putting a bunch of spacers where it mounts to the pipe to push the hanger forward.

I really like the new headers with the ball flange. I think it gets us about 95% of the way to a perfect alignment. Since our goal isn't a show car but one to be driven a lot and enjoyed, I am more than happy with the almost perfect alignment. I think it will be close enough that not a sole would notice. But we will see when we put the body on...

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We are so close to go-karting I can taste it!. All we have left is to attach the EFI to the battery, driveline, front spindles, power steering, steering wheel, front brakes, bleed the brakes and clutch, and attach the heater. Too bad we are still waiting on the steering rack, spindles, and steering wheel. It is looking like these are still a few months out. We only have a handful more full days of work before we could be go-karting. We also need to build the dash and install the wiper motor.

I am worried that we will run out of things to do before go-karting! It looks like the front spindles are a few months out. I truly think that we will finish everything we can without the body before the spindles arrive. At this rate, we might even have carpet and insulation installed, cockpit rear cubby in place, USB chargers installed, seat heaters wired, cruise control installed, etc. I hope that all of these little projects will keep us occupied until the spindles come!

Sadly, I am back home now and so I won't get back to the car for another few weeks.

[Blitzboy54]

Same on the drop trunk. Was so much harder than I thought it would end up being but like you said totally worth it. I can’t wait to go cart. I don’t even have my motor yet. Lol

[hineas]

Any word on timing for your motor?