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rank amateur
SBC Exhaust on 33 HotRod
I am laying out the hot rod rear exit exhaust before selecting my headers for a SBC. I wanted to make sure the connection point is in the right place.
SBC supplemental instructions Rev F says to use ram horn headers –Flowtech 11704 instead of shorty headers (SUM-G9005 or Flowtech 11102 which were recommended in previous revisions of the instructions.)
ram horn headers.jpg
I haven’t seen any build here using this type of header. Perhaps this resolves some of the fitment issues I have read about?
Has anyone used ram horn headers? And is the set of pipes I received shown below designed for this instead of typical shorty headers?
Any concerns to watch out for? I read a comment on Jegs that someone (not a FFR) had interference with the alternator with a short water pump. Since these headers go up a bit first I guess I could run into that too.
The assembly manual was pretty vague, combined with old pictures, and separate SBC instructions. Here’s what I came up with:
s20210612_155757f.jpg s20210612_155757r.jpg
Trying to follow the combined instructions, I first had that extra pipe between the long pipe and the muffler, but measuring forward from where the muffler is supposed to be, that would put the front of the pipe at the grille. So is that just an extra piece? And the square adapter looks like it would only apply if using that pipe. The pictures in the SBC instructions seem to use that piece, but again the pictures of the actual install in the instructions show the other type of header, and certainly different length pipes than what I have.
Also any idea where I would use the flange gasket which is next to that? I guess if I had to cut the long pipe to fit, that could be used to connect it (not ideal though).
Lastly, I have the hangers on either side of the muffler, and the hanger above the axle. Is the clamp at the left an extra too?
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Moderator
Sorry, I used the SUM-G9005 and had no problems, bolted straight on even with motor in place, and the rest of exhaust bolted up perfectly.
That exhaust system is very different from what I've seen, Even the front part - looks like another redesign (which are usually for the better!)
The curvy piece and the flange next to it are the standard old-style parts. I guess they supply those in case you have SUM-G9005..
James
FFR33 #997 (Gen1 chassis, Gen2 body), license plate DRIVE IT says it all!
build thread
My build: 350SBC, TKO600, hardtop, no fenders/hood, 32 grill, 3 link, sway bars, 355/30r19
Previous cars: GTD40, Cobra, tubeframe 55 Chevy, 66 Nova, 56 F100
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rank amateur
I'm hoping it's not very different because I pieced it together wrong! I was thinking that to use that curvy piece I'd still need another piece in front of that which connects to the header. On the car, that long straight pipe seems go right to where the rams horn end would be, so as long as that lines up, it does seem simplified.
s20210612_202116.jpg
It assumes I like the rams horn style though - not my first choice, but I don't mind it.
Given my inexperience, I hate to be the the first one working through a new design. I've been enjoying being able to follow the tips from the rest of you. I guess it might be my turn to share the latest fitment.
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The old SBC is really tight on the passenger side depending on if you have any motor front to back adjustment to get clearance for the front pulley. This new arrangement gets rid of the weird down pipe and makes fabrication and alignment easier.
- Peterh226 #1134
'33 Hot Rod 2nd Gen. Blueprint 383 Sniper TKO Delivered 4/14/2019
Full Fenders, Top, 3-Link, Wilwoods
YOKOHAMA ADVAN NEOVA AD08 R | Fr 245/45 R17 | Rr 295/30 R18
AR605 Torq-Thrust M Chrome | Fr 17x8 | Rr 18x10
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I have the 35 Truck with the Rams Horns manifolds for my SBC. It provides plenty of room in the engine compartment, no hard interferences. It mates up to the long J-pipe you show in the photos on the front of your muffler. No other pipes in front of the muffler. The top of the manifolds come pretty close to the valve covers, so spark plug wiring is a challenge. I chose to go with long wires and ran them down along the top edge of the oil pan, then up to the spark plugs (similar to old Corvettes). I also put insulated sleeves on the spark plug boots since they are very close to the Rams Horns and get very hot.
BTW, the Rams Horn manifolds took months to arrive. I would order them soon. I gave up on waiting for the ceramic coated after 2 months and purchased the raw manifolds then took them to my powder coating guy to for ceramic coating. They look good with a silver ceramic coating.
0A93B5A8-54D6-483E-A9A5-483D9F86F805.jpg95A1B457-3479-4075-A3C1-F3384A9D30DF.jpg1CD10EF8-07DB-414E-AFC5-D9DC3683C0C5.jpg244605EE-ECE8-48A5-8A84-9F5E3445294F.jpg
Last edited by Sbda4; 06-14-2021 at 12:39 AM.
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rank amateur
Perfect, Thanks! I was thinking the wires would need to approach from the bottom.
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rank amateur
@Sbda4 - Thanks for the advice on the headers. I now have the Flowtech ram horn headers (ceramic coated) installed on the engine.
Your pictures did not have them connected to the downpipes yet. Have you done that?
I’m at a loss as to how they connect. Even searching in general for how headers with a flat surface connect to the rest of an exhaust without a mating flat surface, and I can’t find a how-to for dummies.
Here is what I’m working with.
collector connection supplied parts.jpg
The best I can tell, the donut gasket at the right would be used here. Is that correct? And in which direction? I thought it seemed obvious the beveled edge would fit in the flare of the downpipe and the “pipe” extension of the gasket should fit inside the header collector outlet. However it doesn’t quite fit inside.
Header collector outlet measures 2.33” – official size is 2.25”
The metal pipe part extending from the donut has an od of 2.375”
So that doesn’t fit inside the header, but I think it might be convinced, since it has those relief cuts. Before I bend and force it, I want to check that this is right.
The donut could be flipped with the pipe extension part inside the flare of the downpipe. That does fit, but doesn’t seem right to me.
Below is what the donut looks like in the downpipe. I also included what I could find on dimensions of available donuts that might fit better. Any advice? Should I try to squeeze this donut to fit? Or is this even the right way to connect them? I couldn’t find any adapters to mate the flat surface of the header to the ball socket besides reducers, and I kind of need the opposite of that, and also don’t want to add any length or require welding.
collector connection donut options.jpg
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Sorry about the delayed response. I didn’t see your response until today. I have successfully installed the J-pipes (pipe that goes from manifold to muffler). I like the idea of using donuts, but that is not what I did. I purchased flat copper gaskets (triangular gaskets with hole in each corner to align with manifold bolts). I used a sanding wheel to flatten the top of the J-pipes since they were uneven as shipped. I only sanded enough to have a flat mating surface to the manifolds, I didn’t remove the flare. I’ve run the engine quite a bit since installing and have no leaks.
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rank amateur
I have not started the engine yet, but the donuts seem to do the job. I was able to squeeze the pipe part a bit to fit inside the header and the J-pipe seals on it pretty good. It seals the gap between both the J-pipe socket and the header flat surface with the pipe part of the donut snug inside the header. I also made a spark plug wire hanger to take the wires close to the engine and then towards the front for the front two spark plugs. I bought longer universal wires but have not assembled them yet.
A1 20211113_163029.jpg
One question: Are those bolts correct? There is no room for a nut on the top, so not sure if they will wiggle loose. There is a spring washer on the bottom. Maybe some locktite on the header side?
For others that were asking about where to attach the muffler hangers on Gen 2 here's what I did:
Front hanger bolts to the frame next to the e-brake. I really don't want to take these off again, but looking at it now, I should probably paint the hangers.
A2 20211107_145701.jpgA3 20211113_163827.jpg
I cut a hole in the upper floor so that the bolt head is on the frame and not the floor aluminum so that it's lower, not putting as much of a bump on the floor. I also used a longer bolt so there is more thread underneath. The second picture shows the rear hanger bolt (driver's side without the upper floor on.)
A4 20211107_170739.jpgA5 20211107_145918.jpg
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Thanks for the info on the donut exhaust seals, they look like a much better solution than the flat copper gasket I’m using. I just ordered a set of the donut gaskets since I think I’ve developed a leak and it is fouling my oxygen sensor. When I got my J-pipes, FFR did not provide any gasket so thanks for the tips.
I think your bolt set up looks fine. I didn’t have those studs, so I used flange head bolts inserted from the bottom and threaded into the manifold. I used a lock washer and also used nickel anti-seize on the threads to enable future removal if needed.
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Thanks so much for documenting this as we're struggling with it now too. Did you end up going bevel up or bevel down? And did you end up using loctite on those 3 bolts or not?
33’ Hot Rod - Gen 2. BluePrint Engine Small Block Chevy 383, carbureted, 700R4 automatic transmission
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rank amateur
The bevel goes down into the flare of the downpipe. The metal part of the gasket fits inside the header; It's tight but the cuts allow it to be squeezed a bit.
I did not use any loctite. I have yet to start the engine, so can't say yet if it's leak free. (I'm deep in wiring right now.)
I don't think I'd put loctite on the bolts. Initially I'll need to get them hot and retighten all the exhaust bolts. I'll keep an eye on them and if they loosen I'd switch them out with another type of bolt that would allow a head and nut so that the top part would be more secure and the nut tightened from the bottom - one with an allen socket head; I think it's called a crown bolt or cap screw. This would probably fit against the header.
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I did not have any Donuts so needed to order them. The diagrams online in some places have the wrong dimensions. I ended up using Walker 31523 and the fit ok and I think will work well. I also changed to Dynomax Super Turbo 17731 Exhaust Muffler as it's a little loud for what I want to ride around in (I've got the hardtop).
- Peterh226 #1134
'33 Hot Rod 2nd Gen. Blueprint 383 Sniper TKO Delivered 4/14/2019
Full Fenders, Top, 3-Link, Wilwoods
YOKOHAMA ADVAN NEOVA AD08 R | Fr 245/45 R17 | Rr 295/30 R18
AR605 Torq-Thrust M Chrome | Fr 17x8 | Rr 18x10
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Peter, Look at Nordlock washers for the manifold to down pipe bolts they work great in those situations and they just don't loosen after many heat cycles. Available at Amazon
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Those are cool lock washers. If I have any issues, those will be next.
- Peterh226 #1134
'33 Hot Rod 2nd Gen. Blueprint 383 Sniper TKO Delivered 4/14/2019
Full Fenders, Top, 3-Link, Wilwoods
YOKOHAMA ADVAN NEOVA AD08 R | Fr 245/45 R17 | Rr 295/30 R18
AR605 Torq-Thrust M Chrome | Fr 17x8 | Rr 18x10