Hey Daniel, thanks so much for the kind words! I'm so glad that the tools worked out for you. Your lines turned out fantastic. That feeling of accomplishment when you finish something that seemed so daunting at first is wonderful, isn't it? Keep up the great work - your build is coming along great so far.
MkIV Roadster build: Gen 2 Coyote, IRS, TKO600. Ordered 10/24/18. Delivered 1/29/19. Engine installed 8/8/21. First start 9/12/21. First go-kart 9/17/21. Off to paint 4/11/22. Back from paint 12/30/22. Build thread here.
RT Turning Signal, Quick Release, and a bunch of things that don’t fit together.
Unpacked the dashboard from the long cardboard box it comes in. After reading the instructions my first reaction was a bit of awkwardness that I have to bend the side of the aluminum sheet to meet the chassis. Wonder if I should pre-bend it somehow, but I’ll leave that for later.
During my visit to JohnK’s garage I saw his Russ Thompson Turning Signal Stalk as well as the quick-release mated to the steering hub. It looked super slick so I purchased the setup for my build as well. I purchased the Russ Thompson turning signal stalk from the man himself who lives just an hour drive away. I purchased the NRG Innovations SRK-400BK Black Thin Quick Release.
The turning signal stalk requires enlarging the steering column hole in the dash. Quite easily done with a dremel with a cutting wheel. dashboard00001.jpgdashboard00002.jpg
Fitting the steering wheel hub onto the steering column proved a little difficult. The top of the steering shaft was flared out. The diameter of the shaft (or most of it anyway) is ~1.76mm, whereas the tip flared to ~1.81mm. Perhaps it was damaged somehow? Regardless, due to the increased width of the shaft it won’t fit into the hub. doesntfit00001.jpgdoesntfit00002.jpgdoesntfit00003.jpg
The quick release also has a stepped section that I need to fit into the hub of the Russ Thompson turning signal system. Currently the outer diameter of the quick release is bigger than the inner diameter of this hub. The inside diameter of the steering wheel hub is ~48.55mm, whereas the outside diameter of the stepped portion of the quick release is ~54.58mm. I’ll have to resolve this issue as well. hubdoesntfit00001.jpghubdoesntfit00002.jpghubdoesntfit00003.jpg
RT Turning Signal, Quick Release, and a bunch of things that don’t fit together. Pt 2
The answer to both of the above, as always, is having great friends! My buddy who lives just around the corner has a lathe in his garage, so I took the shaft, steering wheel hub, and the rest of the shebang to a guys' night in the garage. We trimmed the top of the shaft so the outer diameter is consistent throughout the whole shaft and spun the inside diameter of the steering-wheel hub to a size that would fit the quick release nice and snug. It turned out great! lathe2.jpglathe1.jpg
Now that everything fits together, it’s time to mount the quick release onto the steering wheel hub using the provided bolts. I tapped 6 new holes into the steering wheel hub for the quick release. We first drilled into the hub with a drill bit one size smaller than the screw size, then slowly tapped the threads into the hole, enlarging it by a tiny bit in the process. Half turn forward, quarter turn backwards, back off if anything feels funny. For the first few holes near the end the aluminum would start to bind with the tap and I had to take the tap back out and scratch off the sticky aluminum with a scraper tool; suffice to say it got pretty tiring. For the rest of the holes I decided to go at a slower pace and use some motor oil; it turned out way cleaner! tapping00001.jpgtapping00002.jpg
Tadaaa! Russ Thompson turning signal stalk with a quick release! I’m quite pleased with the results. Note that I haven’t aligned the turning signal stalk hub with anything, but that’s okay because I still haven’t received my steering wheel. After I receive the wheel I will center my steering column, align it with the hub, and finally make new holes on the steering wheel center section to align with the hub. finished00001.jpgfinished00002.jpg
I’m also planning out my fuel system. Along with the hard brake lines I’ve finished bending and placing the hard fuel lines. I placed it along the main chassis tube under the passenger side of the car. The rest of the fuel system is yet to be complete.
I’ve received advice and ideas from John and EdwardB’s build thread and I’ve obtained the following components for my fuel system:
Hanger: Pro-M High Flow Fuel Pump Hanger for 1986 - 1997 Mustangs
-06AN send and return.
Purchased this fuel hanger for its lower fuel return tube. I believe I saw the discussion on EdwardB’s build thread, reinforced through JohnK’s advice when I visited him. It has the (arguable?) advantage of not aerating the returned fuel.
The fuel loop is as follows:
Hanger -> Filter -> Send Line -> Pressure Regulator -> Return Line -> Hanger
Since the fuel pressure regulator and the fuel hanger are both -06AN already, I’ve decided to go with -06AN hose and fittings wherever I can. To make this happen, here are the components and the connections I’ll use:
Hanger to Filter: Buy a ⅜ NPT to -06AN adapter for filter input. Connect the hanger output to the filter using a -06AN hose with -06AN fittings on both ends.
Filter to Send Line: Buy a ⅜ NPT to -06AN adapter for filter output, Connect the filter a hose using -06AN fitting, then clamp the other end of the hose onto the barb fitting on the send line.
Send Line to Regulator: Clamp a hose to the send line barb fitting, use a -06AN fitting on the other end of the hose, then connect the hose to the regulator’s -06AN input.
Regulator to Return Line: Clamp a hose to the return line barb fitting, use a -06AN fitting on the other end of the hose, then connect the hose to the regulator’s -06AN return outlet.
Return Line to Hanger: Clamp a hose to the return line barb fitting, use a -06AN fitting on the other end of the hose, then connect the hose to the hanger’s -06AN return input.
With this setup, the remaining materials I’ll need to purchase are:
10ft -06AN hose
6x -06AN hose fittings
2x -06AN to ⅜ NPT adapters
I plan to place an order for these items on Summit Racing in the next few days. Meanwhile if anyone has any suggestions I’ve love to hear them and take them into consideration.
... follow up question: Would it be worth it to use a compression fitting on the 5/16th and 1/4 hard lines to turn everything into -06AN? Are barbs secure enough? The coyote only requires 55Psi is fuel so it's really not that much. It feels like a waste sacrificing a perfectly good 5/16th flare, NPS, and NPS to barb adapter. It would mean purchasing 4 compression fittings and 4 more -06AN hose ends, but it will get rid of all barbs.
(1) The Gen 3 Coyote is 65 psi at the regulator. Not 55 psi. Right out of the Ford Performance Control Pack instructions. Agree it's slightly confusing because it says 65 psi at the regulator and on the same diagram says "55 psi at fuel rail with engine off." Which I don't know how to measure to be honest. For mine, I set the regulator at 65 psi as instructed. That's where it was when tuned and haven't touched it in 4,000 trouble free miles. Doesn't change your plan. But recommend you follow the Ford instructions.
(2) You'll get other opinions on this, but you've filled your plan with -06AN devices and fittings. Which is equivalent to 3/8". But then are using 5/16" supply and 1/4" return lines. Kind of a shame IMO. The setup will only be as good as the smallest lines. Maybe that's enough for the nearly 500 HP Gen 3 Coyote. But hasn't been my choice for my builds. I've done a full 3/8" setup (supply and return) for both Coyote builds. You've specified the Walbro GSS340BX pump, which is a full 255 lph pump. It might not like pushing the fuel through those smaller lines. One of the reasons I changed to 3/8" lines back in the day was some guys were having early pump failures using the stock lines. I don't know what brand regulator Mark at Breeze is selling. But the similar looking Aeromotive 13129 I've used on several builds (also -06AN) specifically says to use 3/8" lines. As you've found out with your planning, lots of parts and work (and $$$) to get this set up. You wouldn't want to do it over on a finished build. I'd recommend reconsidering the lines you're planning. Oversize (within reason) doesn't hurt anything. Undersize could. A fallback plan might be to dial down the pump to a 190 lph model. Not my personal choice though.
Last edited by edwardb; 11-08-2021 at 05:25 AM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Thanks for the insight Edward, I suppose you're right. I'm already upgrading from FFR provided parts with -06AN components, why not make the lines 3/8th as well? I just checked on Summit Racing and 3/8th hard lines aren't expensive at all. I'm totally down to redo my fuel lines with 3/8th send and return. For the line ends I'll use a compression fitting that goes straight into -06AN. Gonna add 2 lines and 4 compression fitting so my order.
Thanks for the insight Edward, I suppose you're right. I'm already upgrading from FFR provided parts with -06AN components, why not make the lines 3/8th as well? I just checked on Summit Racing and 3/8th hard lines aren't expensive at all. I'm totally down to redo my fuel lines with 3/8th send and return. For the line ends I'll use a compression fitting that goes straight into -06AN. Gonna add 2 lines and 4 compression fitting so my order.
Why not just do everything in -6 AN and not worry about compression fittings…?
Alternately, you could do hose ends,AN style as well, and run a steel braided Teflon hose or a rubber hose.
Both of these options are way less prone to leaks than a compression fitting or a barb fitting and a hose clamp. Also they will stand up to the pressures used by EFI where the barb fittings may be questionable.
But I just work on super sonic jets. So what do I know…
Any of the suggestions mentioned work just fine, including the compression fittings. They all have their pros and cons. Flaring your own AN ends onto hard lines requires a separate set of dies from those used for the brake lines. Lots of folks have run braided lines the entire length, and that's OK too. Probably hundreds of folks, myself included, have used Let-Lok compression fittings (Breeze part number 21608 as one example) on 3/8" hard lines. They're foolproof, definitely easier than flaring your own lines, and can handle way more pressure than the 65 PSI that a gen3 coyote needs.
MkIV Roadster build: Gen 2 Coyote, IRS, TKO600. Ordered 10/24/18. Delivered 1/29/19. Engine installed 8/8/21. First start 9/12/21. First go-kart 9/17/21. Off to paint 4/11/22. Back from paint 12/30/22. Build thread here.
John beat me to it. The right compression fittings are just fine for these setups. I use the Let-Lok fittings as well. As I recall they're rated in the 1,000's psi. I think they'll hold up to our 50/60/70 psi. I have an Eastwood flaring tool and do all my own brake lines. No issues with doing the flares in the fuel lines too. But those fittings are just so easy to use and give you an instant AN connection with no other adapters. Not building super sonic jets here.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
While waiting on the fuel line components, let's work on the radiator! I purchased the breeze radiator shroud as seen from other build threads. I've also purchased rivnuts as well as a rivnut settler to make installation and future maintenance easier. These rivnuts are pretty slick! rivnut00003.jpgrivnut00002.jpgrivnut00001.jpgrivnut00004.jpg
To protect the other side of the radiator (dang those little radiator fins are easy to bend!) I've cut a piece of cardboard the size of the radiator opening and stuck it on with tape. Should do the job. cardboard_on_radiator.jpg
I have a long strip of inch-wide steel strip that I can use to reinforce the top of the radiator before attaching it to the upper attachment point, but the bottom of the radiator is still very much unsupported. Before I go weld a steel tube at the bottom of the front chassis to support the radiator, I want to ask: Is there a reason for ever adjusting the radiator mounting angle? I'd imagine after you install it you'll just leave it in place?
There's no real reason to have to adjust the radiator mounting angle once it's set, but what angle you set it to depends on whether you plan to use the FFR-supplied radiator surround sheetmetal or the Mike Everson (Replicaparts) radiator surround. The former requires a 51* radiator angle (I think - don't quote me on this) while the latter requires a 58* degree angle. The hinged Breeze upper mount allows you to set the radiator at whatever angle you want/need. Also, FWIW the Breeze lower radiator mount provides a nice solid bottom support. I have both on my build if you want to come check them out.
MkIV Roadster build: Gen 2 Coyote, IRS, TKO600. Ordered 10/24/18. Delivered 1/29/19. Engine installed 8/8/21. First start 9/12/21. First go-kart 9/17/21. Off to paint 4/11/22. Back from paint 12/30/22. Build thread here.
The former requires a 51* radiator angle (I think - don't quote me on this) while the latter requires a 58* degree angle.
Thanks for pointing this out John, I completely overlooked the mounting angle requirement. Yes I'd love to stop by to take a look. See you real soon :P
The "insulated clips" from FFR are backordered, so I purchased some clips to clip on my brake and fuel lines. The fuel lines will need to be redone with 3/8 hard lines, but hey they still look good. :P
Here I'm using Second Skin sound dampening material. Before this purchased foam based dampening material but they didn't work well at all; compared to Second Skin they simply don't do the job. With Second Skin the sound difference is night and day; I highly recommend it.
You may also notice that the panels don't look "sharkhide" coated. This is because I've decided to not coat the panels that I'll eventually put dampening material or heat insulation material on. Didn't see a point in doing so.
Near the end as I ran out of Second Skin I started using smaller and smaller pieces. I thought that smaller pieces will also provide "some" dampening and I'd be fine with it, but I don't like the end result at all. I purchased another pack of the material and will be filling in the gaps I left. To anyone else thinking of conserving their sound dampening material: It's not worth it. Just cover the panels!
Another word of caution on these gel sound dampeners: They are REALLY STICKY and REALLY HARD TO REMOVE ONCE APPLIED! Definitely plan out all the mods before slapping on the sheets cuz peeling them off is next to impossible. As I type this I'm trying to figure out how I can cleanly cut out a hole in the panel behind the seats for a rear storage cubby. The sticky material isn't gonna make this easy...
"Oh boy..." I said to myself after unpacking the Ron Francis wiring harness and layout out all the cables on the carpet of my living room floor. One thing I wasn't sure when handling the wiring harness was how much manhandling the harness could take. I tried my best stuffing the wires down near the fuse box as I tried inserting the fuse box itself through the narrow opening around the steering shaft and supporting cross members. Luckily that was the hardest part and everything else was pretty easy in comparison. The harness had a branch for truck builds. I didn't need it so I cut that part off. I'll wrap each individual end with some electrical tape to prevent any accidental connections. Similar to other builds, I've added a cut and bent strip of aluminum to provide some extra support to the fusebox.
The rest of the harness is currently resting along the firewall. I'll clean those up as I'm more certain about what I'll do with the dashboard itself. harness00002.jpgharness00003.jpg
I opened up the big white "Ford Performance" box that came with my FFR coyote engine+trans package. My plan was to lay things out to cross-check the parks inside the box with the coyote install instructions. To my surprise, the box included a EFI kit! The kit includes, along with a new fuel pump and hanger, a set of EFI pressure regulator, pressure gauge, and hoses. The hoses were terminated with Bundy fittings on one end and NPS o-ring on the other end that goes into the pressure regulator. Here's a picture of the hoses and pressure regulator: 20211116_213420.jpg
(Note that the components didn't come in the box like this. I took the components out of their protective boxes and took this picture)
The information that was missing during my planning phase was that FFR provides a separate EFI install manual which I've linked here. The FFR setup makes use of the provided fuel filter and routes the fuel lines through the transmission tunnel along the rear chassis harness. The components are connected via bundy fittings and no hard-lines are involved nor required.
So now I need to make a decision. Do I keep going with my EFI routing plans detailed in Post #44? Do I go with the FFR setup and return the components I've purchased so far? Do I do something in-between? I'm no expert in this area, so I'd love some input here. Are the flexible hoses inferior enough when compared to hard-lines to warrant a custom setup? Has anyone experienced issues with the fuel pump / hanger provided by FFR, aside from the fuel aeration issue? I'm seriously considering the FFR setup because I've spent about $500 in components for my own EFI setup (Breeze regulator, Trickflow filter, Pro-M hanger, walbro pump, lines, hose fittings, etc) and that chunk of change can be allocated to improving another aspect of the car.
I'm thinking, if FFR provided this kit, they must have tested it and seen that it's works and is reliable, right? Is that a safe assumption to make?
After looking up related threads and spoke in person with JohnK again, I've decided that putting a flexible fuel line through the transmission tunnel isn't the greatest idea. I'll be going with the 3/8th hardline setup I've previously planned. If I haven't used the lines and fittings by the end of my build I'll pass it forward to a fellow builder who needs it on their FFR build. Pass it forward!
The front spindles and hubs finally arrived! The hub goes onto the spacer with an extremely precise fit; not "tight", but "precise". When inserting the spindle into the hub, make sure to insert it exactly straight and centered. If done correctly the spindle should slide right in. If not it will feel impossible to push through. I made the mistake of inserting it at a slightly off-set angle and had the time of my life getting that sucker back out. spindles00001.jpgspindles00002.jpgspindles00003.jpg
When attaching the spindles to the upper and lower control arms I made two mistakes. The first was having no idea what "spacer" the manual was referring to for installing the lower castle nut. Turns out this particular spacer isn't a cut steel tube like the other spacers, but rather a thicker countersunk washer shaped spacer. I looked through my inventory trying to find the spacer before asking the forum what it was. Here it is: spindle_spacer.jpg
The second was attaching the spindles to the incorrect sides of the car. I even read about this before from other build threads but somehow forgot about it when working on my own. For the roadster, the "right" spindle marked with an "R" goes on the LEFT and the "left" spindle marked with an "L" goes on the RIGHT. One way to tell if you have it installed correctly is by seeing of the arm of of the spindle points forwards or backwards. If it points forwards then you got it reversed. Here's an example: The first picture shows the wrong configuration; the second picture shows the correct configuration. knuckle_incorrect.jpgknuckle_correct.jpg
Next we get to the brakes. I opted for the Wilwood big brake kit. The instructions were simple and easy to follow. Nothing really stood out to me during the installation process. I've yet to seal the brake-line fitting with pipe-thread tape. I'll need to remember to do that. Either that or I'll find out when it starts leaking when I test my brakes. Here's what it looks like: brakes00001.jpgbrakes00002.jpgbrakes00003.jpg
Each brake caliper uses 2 pins to hold the brake pads in place. I thought removing the pads would simply be a matter of removing the pin, but when I tried it the pads couldn't actually slide out from the opening at the top of the caliper. Do I understand this correctly? In order to change my pads I have to remove the brake caliper from the spindle?
Now the only things missing from my front suspension setup are the tie rods and coil-over springs. I emailed factory five about the springs and apparently they never knew it was backordered for me. I'm glad I reached out to them, or else I wouldn't get the springs until much later!
Something I forgot to mention in the last post: When I installed the spindles onto the UCA and LCAs, the balljoint boots became twisted and sheared out of shape. The top boot actually fell off entirely. This makes me worried. The bottom balljoint boot has a locking ring to keep the boot attached, but the top one doesn't. I remember seeing in some thread that people opt for another ball-joint boot that doesn't wear-out as quick. I'll have to go dig that one out and see if I'll do the same. balljoint_boot00001.jpgballjoint_boot00002.jpgballjoint_boot00003.jpg
Many of us replace the upper ball joint boot with Energy Suspension 5.13102G Ball Joint Dust Boot for Chrysler. Comes as a set of four and you only use two. But not expensive. Don't panic about how they fit. They seat properly when the suspension is at ride height. At full droop (like now) won't look like it. Couple of suggestions: (1) The front hub is way easier to install once the spindle is mounted and stable. No hurry since you can't torque the axle nut until the spindle is bolted down. (2) Be careful not to twist the lower ball joint boot. Looks like the ball joint stud turned some while you tightened it? That's going to make it more likely to tear in the future IMO. (3) You'll get other opinions on this, but highly suggest leaving the Teflon tape in the tool box for your home plumbing projects. Use thread sealant on that brake line fitting. Plus others where sealant is required.
Pretty sure you're right on those front Wilwood calipers. They have to be removed to swap the pads. Kind of a lot of variation from what I've seen with Wilwood calipers. Multiple ways the pads are held in and how they're installed. I wouldn't panic about it. I've used those exact calipers on multiple builds and have yet to change pads once they were installed. Obviously depends on how much you drive, how hard you drive, etc. But the stock pads last quite well. My Coupe just finished its second driving season and I checked the pads just a couple days ago. Still plenty of thickness remaining.
Last edited by edwardb; 11-24-2021 at 07:27 AM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
If your front calipers are the Wilwood 6 piston models, there is a good chance you will not be pleased with street stopping performance. Now is the perfect time to swap out the front pads. I tried to like the Wilwood pads, but just felt it took to much leg to get the braking feel I expected.
I replaced the pads with Hawk brand and got a nice improvement. I have noticed there is no distraction of pedal effort as before. I think I am seeing some brake dust, but may be a result of the bedding process.
If you will google, I am sure you will find my post, which list the part numbers for the swap. I got some good advise, during the post and speaking with Hawk personnel.
If you drive hard and or race, you should be good as you are.
I had no issues with the brake assembly, mounting or bleeding, just the pad coefficient of friction.
20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.
Many of us replace the upper ball joint boot with Energy Suspension 5.13102G Ball Joint Dust Boot for Chrysler. Comes as a set of four and you only use two. But not expensive. Don't panic about how they fit. They seat properly when the suspension is at ride height. At full droop (like now) won't look like it. Couple of suggestions: (1) The front hub is way easier to install once the spindle is mounted and stable. No hurry since you can't torque the axle nut until the spindle is bolted down. (2) Be careful not to twist the lower ball joint boot. Looks like the ball joint stud turned some while you tightened it? That's going to make it more likely to tear in the future IMO. (3) You'll get other opinions on this, but highly suggest leaving the Teflon tape in the tool box for your home plumbing projects. Use thread sealant on that brake line fitting. Plus others where sealant is required.
Thank you for the tips Edward. I'll make an order for those Chrysler balljoint boots. I believe I have some thread-sealant that came with the breeze fuel pressure regulator so I'll use that too instead of teflon tape.
I have a question about the twisting of the balljoint boot. The top of the bottom boot directly contacts the spindle, that means it will be twisted during regular driving anyways right? E.g. when I make a left turn both upper and lower boots will twist with the spindle? Do you mean to make sure the boot is in neutral state when the spindles are pointing forward?
If your front calipers are the Wilwood 6 piston models, there is a good chance you will not be pleased with street stopping performance. Now is the perfect time to swap out the front pads. I tried to like the Wilwood pads, but just felt it took to much leg to get the braking feel I expected.
Hey Railroad, I too have a similar concern at the back of my head. A few months ago I drove a friend's kit car with no power-brakes and relatively small brake pads; getting that car to stop from a high speed was a little nerve-wracking. I don't think I'll ever put power-brakes on my FFR roadster, but if I can improve street-driving brake performance by switching out brake pads I'd definitely go for it. I do have some questions about this too (ideas that I wanted to research more into, but didn't have time to do it yet): brake feel and progression. If I get a super bite-y pad, will I be severely sacrificing progression? E.g. with the wilwood pads I'll have more control over how much brake force I want. I wouldn't want pads that are 0 brake and then suddenly 100% brakes to the point where I lock up easily.
Do you mean to make sure the boot is in neutral state when the spindles are pointing forward?
If you can, yes. Paul B (EdwardB)
Regarding brakes, I've used the Wilwood big brake kit on a Roadster and now my Coupe. That's with the 6-piston front and 4-piston front. Not the solid axle version that has only the single piston rear. I've been happy with the amount of braking I have after they were properly bedded. No question they require a heavier pedal than power. But the amount of braking I have is very strong. Just during my last drive of the season a week or two ago I approached an intersection and the light changed to yellow when I was at a pretty good speed and was relatively close. But since the intersection was quite wide (2 lanes plus turn lanes each way) I chose to hit the brakes hard and stop rather than venture through. My one bad accident in my life many years ago was being T-boned in the middle of an intersection by someone what was timing the lights. It pulled down really strong and had no issues stopping in time. I was mostly worried about the car behind me. I was watching... My suggestion is try to the stock brakes. Bed them per the instructions. And if you still don't like them, switch to a more aggressive pad. Easy enough to do.
Last edited by edwardb; 11-24-2021 at 06:27 PM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
My suggestion is try to the stock brakes. Bed them per the instructions. And if you still don't like them, switch to a more aggressive pad. Easy enough to do.
Apologies for the incorrect name Paul. ...and yes that's the plan for now. I have the pads, so might as well try them out. What I meant was I definitely won't hesitate to switch pads if needed. How long did it take for your wilwood pads to break-in?
Apologies for the incorrect name Paul. ...and yes that's the plan for now. I have the pads, so might as well try them out. What I meant was I definitely won't hesitate to switch pads if needed. How long did it take for your wilwood pads to break-in?
No apologies needed. Edward is my middle name. Been using as a screen name for a lot of years in a lot of places. I felt an immediate improvement after the bedding in process. With continued driving that got a little better. I'd say somewhere in the 500-1000 miles range as a wild guess. Biggest message (and I caution people all the time about it) don't let your first impression be your sole judge. Especially if it's the (hopefully) low speed and low stress go-kart drive. Save the judgment until after it's done and properly broken in, bias adjusted as needed, etc. Some like me will find it acceptable. Others, like Railroad, won't and that's totally reasonable. Wilwood also has other grades if you don't want to be quite as aggressive as the Hawk pads. Lots of options.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
The Wilwood pads would lock up all 4 with enough pressure. My dislike was only the amount of pressure I had to use to bring the car down to slow or stop. I might have missed something in shopping for Wilwood replacement pads, but 6 piston caliper pads seem to be track oriented only.
After bedding, I still found the leg effort too high for me.
If your impressions are like mine, be advised you will need to remove brake pad material from the rotor, prior to bedding the new pads.
The Hawk pads are not an extreme change to light effort stopping. Hawk as Wilwood seems to develop their 6 piston pad for aggressive use. The Hawk pad was just an improvement for me.
When and if you change pads, do not forget to correctly replace caliper spacers for centering the caliper over the rotor.
EBC at one time made a replacement pad, but seems to have ceased production and I could not find any in inventory.
20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.
On a related note, I noticed that the rotors had black powder-coat like coating on the part that contacts the brake pads. I assume they will be rubbed off during normal usage. Should I sand them off beforehand? Will it help the bed-in process at all?
This IRS doesn't take money, but it does take time.
My IRS components emerged from backorder limbo and now’s the time to get started on the rear end! This one took quite some time with several caveats here and there, most of them avoidable given prior experience. After reading other build threads’ IRS install section, I had a pretty good idea on what to do. Make a threaded rod spreader. Grease up the pivot sleeves. Use ratcheting straps. Etc.
I under-estimated just how hard it was to chase the two holes on the differential mounting arms. I chased the holes in the aluminum control arms with ease, but the steel differential housing is a completely different story. I did not have a drill press big enough to hold the diff, so that’s a no go. My power drills were all too slow (according to my friend who helped me out). The hole that needs to be chased has a slit that catches the drill bit extremely easily and every time it happens it twists my arm in a painful circle. That wasn’t fun.
What ended up working was to incrementally chase the hole using smaller to bigger drill bits. I also used a stepped drill bit to drill out a guide for the longer drill bit to sit. Final piece of the puzzle was to use cutting fluid. I tried WD40 and that didn’t actually help much. My friend’s cutting fluid made a world of difference. chased holes00001.jpgchased holes00002.jpg
Next was the diff. I followed the “ratcheting tie-down straps” approach where I slowly maneuvered the diff into place. Slow and steady and 2 mistakes:
The first is not checking the strength rating of the straps. The straps I bought from home depot turned out to be pretty weak and one strap actually broke half way through. I had to switch it out with another one to avoid potential injury. I should have bought heavy duty straps instead.
The second mistake was installing my IRS lower control arms before installing the diff. I asked a buddy to come help with the diff install. While waiting for him to arrive I got impatient and decided to install the driver side LCA. Boy did that sucker get in the way when installing the diff! The tie-down straps got caught on the arms a few times. The LCA also took up valuable space when there already wasn’t much space underneath the rear of the car. If I could do it again I would wait for the diff to be installed before installing the rear suspension components.
Unfortunately I don’t have pictures for the install. Was too busy installing and forgot to take progress pictures.
The rest of the IRS components went in without too much sweat. The key here was to spread each mounting point on the frame before installing the arms. You’ll need to torque the mounting points back down anyway, so spreading it apart won’t change how it sits in the end. The CV axles went into the diff with a few smacks from a dead-blow hammer, no biggie. irs00001.jpgirs00002.jpgirs00003.jpgirs00004.jpgirs00005.jpg
Last thing to note here is that while I torqued the control arm to frame mounting bolts to spec, I did not apply Loctite. This is because I plan to install sway bars later on during the build, and the sway bars make use of the control arm mounting bolts. Once I receive the sway bar mounts and install them, I can torque it down again with Loctite. swaybar00001.jpgswaybar00002.jpg
On a related note, I noticed that the rotors had black powder-coat like coating on the part that contacts the brake pads. I assume they will be rubbed off during normal usage. Should I sand them off beforehand? Will it help the bed-in process at all?
No, don't do anything to them. Certainly don't sand them. That coating will wear off very early in their use. Probably will be gone by the time you're doing the bedding process. If not, it will be afterwards. There's nothing you need to do to get ready for the bedding process. Just when you're ready and the car is properly sorted out. If you read the sequence, it's a pretty good workout and you want the car working well. Not just the brakes.
Good work on getting the IRS in. That's a big step. Just a comment. Blue Loctite on the hardware doesn't hurt anything. Unless it's the nylon locking type. Never use Loctite on those. But IMO isn't necessary. As I recall, many of the nuts are distorted thread locking type. Plus they all have relatively high torque values which I assume you're setting. They don't need Loctite to stay in place. The only exception is I believe the instructions say to use red Loctite and witness mark the upper control arm adjuster nut after you set the alignment.
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Unless it's the nylon locking type. Never use Loctite on those. But IMO isn't necessary. As I recall, many of the nuts are distorted thread locking type. Plus they all have relatively high torque values which I assume you're setting. They don't need Loctite to stay in place.
Haha, I guess I'll just want to wait until when I need to unbolt the components to see how tough it will be :P Already out loctite on all the nuts, wish I saw your comment earlier. I did try to undo a bolt with my big wrench and it came apart easier than I expected.
One thought constantly at the back of my head is how little space I have in my garage. With effectively what is a one-car-garage with a big shed in the backyard, the space is very limited. Currently to fit everything in I stick the engine under the rear-frame where the fuel tank's supposed to be. I did this by raising the chassis high off the ground so the space under the rear will be enough for the engine to slide in. This is not ideal.
2 months ago I created this post asking about recommended steps to finish before putting in the engine. For the past few weeks I've been prioritizing items on that list; fuel lines, chassis harness, footbox aluminum... and the latest update: Coyote Harness.
Since Paul (@edwardb)'s build thread, FFR has released a gen3 coyote install manual. Reading through the manual however, I found a few items I wasn't very satisfied with. First was routing the send/return fuel lines through the transmission tunnel using soft fuel lines; a big no-no for me. Second of mounting the fusebox on top of the passenger foot box aluminum, cramming the engine harness tightly into the corner and making it rather awkward to install a master cut-off switch. I've decided to go with the layout used by both @edwardb and @JohnK. It just makes more sense to me.
One of the many neat add-ons I copied from other build threads is the center-console cut-off switch. @edwardb's fusebox / harness routing makes this easy to route. The advantage here is the switch cuts off everything except the memory power to the ECU. I threaded the switch through a small hole in the firewall. It doesn't look very good right now but I'm sure I'll figure something out once I get started on carpeting the cockpit.
Next was the ECU holder; but before we jump into that, there's another issue I'd like to address: I didn't order the FFR Coyote Install Kit.
While I was reading the FFR provided Gen3 Coyote Install Manual I noticed many components I didn't remember ever seeing in my inventory of parts. In the beginning I thought I had to make the ECU bracket and such, but as I read on I came across components that I just didn't have. Some of these components I could buy from shops such as summit racing (air filter, etc), but others I'd have a hard time obtaining (90 degree bent intake tube, engine mount spacers, etc). Turns out I didn't have the "Coyote Install Kit (FFR Part# 16863)". This kit is not included with the complete kit nor was it included with the Gen3 Coyote Engine + Trans package. After realizing this I researched about this kit, and found this post where @edwardb recommended getting it. I'm currently in the process of placing an order with FFR for this "Coyote Install Kit".
Without the "Coyote Install Kit", I had to fab some components. I didn't mind of course! It was actually quite fun! I had some spare aluminum sheets left over from unused chassis aluminum, so I made a ECU mount. Turned out pretty good!
Here you can see that I've grossly over-estimated the length of the required wire. I think I'll redo one of the ends just to make it shorter and more pleasing to the eye. Unlike what @edwardb and/or @JohnK did, though, I decided to route the starter wires through the separate harness branch off of the coyote harness. The ECU is quite close to the starter, and the wire is more than long enough to reach comfortably with some room for routing. At the bottom left of the first picture you can see the Breeze Battery Relocator. It's an excellent addition to the build. High quality, great craftsmanship, would recommend!
With the engine harness routed I am ever closer to reaching the point where I can drop in the engine. As explained in an earlier post, I've opted to switch out my FFR provided fuel lines with stainless steel 3/8th lines with -06AN fittings on all interfaces for easy of service. My brake-line parts are on its way from Summit Racing and I should be able to finish that by next week. I've once again borrowed JohnK's line tools so I'm all prep'ed and ready! I've also not completed my driver-side footbox yet. The "Coyote Install Kit" won't come for a while, but seeing other build threads I probably won't want to use the FFR provided pedal mount anyway. I've yet to take enough notes on pedal mounting to make an informed decision on this matter. Regardless, it does not look too difficult.
Other decisions keeping me up at night are:
Should I finish all chassis / dash wiring before dropping in the engine?
Should I spray paint the engine compartment facing chassis aluminum? I really want to, but I also lack the equipment to do so properly... (whatever proper means. I've historically been pretty bad a paint work.)
Should I go with FFR's provided e-brake kit, or should I go with an aftermarket option line E-STOPP electronic parking brake as seen on @JohnK's build? If I do go with FFR e-brake, I'll need to do that before dropping in the engine as well.
If y'all have any suggestions / points of discussion on any of these, please do chime in!
My original goal was to have the engine dropped in before Christmas and have engine first-start on New Year's Day. To be frank I don't think I'll make those deadlines. I'm not worried. I'd rather take my time to enjoy this building process, instead of rushing through haphazardly. I AM itching to hear the engine crank for the first time though! Sometimes I find myself at the middle of the night browsing through people's first start and go-kart videos on youtube. We'll get there soon!
I've not connected the lines at the rear of the car yet because I haven't decided on a place for the fuel filter. Due to the limited space I have in my garage, I also can't install the fuel tank without finding another spot to put my engine. With that said, can I test fuel pressure without installing the pump/hanger into the fuel tank? E.g. can I put it in a bucket of water and pump that instead?
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Originally Posted by facultyofmusic
