818 Performance Yard Stick

[vozproto]

In previous posts, Dave has mentioned that this 818 will not only be a sexy beast, but the best performing FFR model to date.

Those are some big shoes considering the predecessors, but I'm sure Dave already has his performance metrics in mind when he makes that statement.

The purpose of this discussion was NOT one to develop metric to hold Dave's feet to the fire on the basis of his statement, but more-so because I myself am curious as to what everyone else's idea of 'performance' is. And I think it would be very interesting discussion.

What is YOUR yardstick for the 818?
Track times? Acceleration? Lateral G's? Power:Weight? A specific car you want to leave in your dust?

[ElderDragon]

My target is my friend's Ariel Atom 300. Performance to me means the overall envelope of acceleration, braking and cornering combined with the excellent control feel (brakes, steering and engine) necessary to exploit said envelope and the visibility to enjoy using these qualities.

[shinn497]

Ferrari Enzo, Lamborghini Aventador, Nissan GT-R, and Mclaren MP4-12C

[DrieStone]

A realistic yardstick? Exige territory. 0-60 around 4.5 (by me, but probably 4.0 by a great driver), top speed probably only 140 or so.

[shinn497]

This will match an exige with a NA engine and outclass it with A WRX. A forum member here has a 400WHP 4 banger. That def puts it in enzo territory. Giant killer indeed.

[Xusia]

Interesting question - I'm glad you asked it!

My yardstick is a 600cc sportbike. I'm not sure out accelerating one is realistic (in my budget, anyway), but I want to get very close to the power to weight ratio of about 5.9 pounds per horsepower (this is including a 200 pound rider, and I'm measuring from the wheel, not the crank). This means I'd have to get about 340 hp at the wheels out of the 818. I don't know much about Subaru engines, so I'm not sure how close I'll be able to get.

Where I definitely want to be able outperform a sportbike is cornering. Given what I've seen of the Roadster's capabilities, and what I know of the GTM, this should almost be a given.

So to sum up, quick acceleration and awesome cornering ability are what I'm looking for. (In a daily driver package I can actually use in Oregon)

[ScottKoschwitz]

For acceleration, something in the Elise range (0-60 in around five seconds). For cornering, something like a Spec Miata (go-kart-like feel, road holding over 1G, very controllable to the limit), but reasonably comfortable on the street.

[kitcarj]

I hope no one minds if they have read this before but this is what I would like but minus all the negative things this time around. Especially since this will cost about 8 times as much. I would probably go with a mild/reliable engine or the high MPG version. Do these things (FF cars) come with heaters??
oct29_06.jpg
I drove this car for 10 years off and on.
I guess you could say it screams Kitcar but most of you have no idea how much fun it could be.

Just having a car that no one has seen.
Scooting along inches off the ground.
I think this is the only vehicle I ever felt gave me the feeling that makes people say it corners like it's on rails. Unless of course the corner was bumpy like going over the hump of a railroad crossing while turning hard. It would skip then.
My commute had a nice long hill on it and sometimes at night I would turn off the VW engine and roll silently down the hill into town. It worked great because the speed limit changed from 55-45-35-25.
I climbed into the car by putting one hand on the roll bar and the other on top of the windshield, jump up and make a 1/4 turn counter clockwise as I slid down into the seat.
Getting vapor lock and having to let the engine cool down.
Running out of gas because the gauge didn't work.
A short in the wiring making the battery (which was hidden above the front axle with no access except from underneath) go dead.
Parking it on a hill so I could push start it myself
One person calls it a dune buggy.
Another said it looked like a car from Autopia at Disneyland.

Even my Wife loved it and she isn't a car person.

It wasn't a polished show car. The Red gelcoat had faded to orange.
No heater. So one winter when it was my only car, I wore gloves, 2 coats, a scarf for the first time in my life, a stocking cap and a blanket. And I was still cold. By the way that same hill was magical with the engine off in the snow at night.

Sure I would love a kitcar that you could throw a Ferrari badge on and give an uninformed fan a ride without them realizing it isn't a Ferrari, but even if it looks like my old kitcar, it will be an experience of your life.

By the way, this is what the current owner did to it.....
DSC00982(2).JPG

[vozproto]

For acceleration, something in the Elise range (0-60 in around five seconds). For cornering, something like a Spec Miata (go-kart-like feel, road holding over 1G, very controllable to the limit), but reasonably comfortable on the street.

This is pretty much exactly what I'm thinkin.

[Flamshackle]

Enzo... Faster to 100 and stop/corner better... Mine will be running 400+HP so with room for large rear rubber it should. E good to go!

[bromikl]

I'll be happy to beat the average Corvette on the track. What I really want to see is the 818 on the chart with the cars of Top Gear. Mind you, someone will have to build a beast and allow The Stig to play with it. :0

[BipDBo]

I think the best measure of a cars performance is track time. 0-60 is a bit overrated. People build drag racers all the time. It's much more difficult to design a car that can get around a track in a fast time without needing a pro behind the wheel.

[Mike N]

I want the potential of the performance of the Caterham R500
http://www.uscaterham.com/showroom/R500.html#
But without my elbows hanging out in the breeze

[Niburu]

I want the potential of the performance of the Caterham R500
http://www.uscaterham.com/showroom/R500.html#
But without my elbows hanging out in the breeze

or the over $60K price tag
(and that's before you source an engine and trans for it)

[bbatts]

My Christmas wish would be for a frame to accomodiate a power to weight ratio in the ranges of 4.5 to 7.5. Keep in mind the original muscle cars power to weight ration was approx. 9.5. A lateral capability of 9.2 to 1G will offer great thrills with a reasonable ride quality. I'm in favor of reasonable expectations that do not include, "hair on fire, super car at 100 mpg, for $15K".

[Draco-REX]

My yardstick?
The first thing out of my passenger's mouth must be "HOLY SH*T!"

[bbatts]

By the way, I love the designs by Vman and Xabier. I WILL be one of the first to send in a deposit.

BB

[vozproto]

My yardstick?
The first thing out of my passenger's mouth must be "HOLY SH*T!"

Hahaha. Yeah this reminds me of when I had my 350z and some 8yr old kid holding his dad's hand says "Nice car mister!" I said thank you and walked away smiling. I felt like I had a little kid's dream car.

With the 818, I want the same thing...
But from a grown man holding his wife's hand. "Nice car mister!"

[jimgood]

At least 1.15 g lateral and 0-100-0 performance that beats as many of these as possible: http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...history_page_7

[2KWIK4U]

My yardstick?
The first thing out of my passenger's mouth must be "HOLY SH*T!"

That's hilarious!

[WIS89]

Enzo... Faster to 100 and stop/corner better... Mine will be running 400+HP so with room for large rear rubber it should. E good to go!

Flam- Do you have a quick study-guide on how to get one of these Subie engines to 400 HP? Maybe you have and I missed it-- sorry. I am curious if it is affordable. I would love to take my Father-in-Law's Corvette to school with his 550 + HP, and even though I am fat, I think with 400 HP, I might be able to pull it off!! Thanks!

Regards,

Steve

[gorilla]

I'm on my 3rd turbo subaru and now driving a 415whp car that will get it's heart transplanted into an 818. It's not terribly hard to reach the magical 400whp number with the STI motor. You really need the 2.5L and you need a GT30R or similarly sized turbo with all the supporting mods.

Fortunately, the 818's drivetrain will have significantly less parasitic loss without the AWD. So, I'm going to bet that 400whp will be readily achieved in the 818 with a much quicker spooling setup. I'm thinking a stock STI block with ID1000's, a Blouch 20g, Spearco TMIC and a great tune will get you 400whp with the 818.

Personally, I'm going to run my built motor with heads/cams, equal length headers and a GT30R with AEM standalone ECU to ensure the power delivery is as smooth as possible. That being said, if I can't fit 295 R Compounds in the back...I've got no shot of hooking up. If necessary, I'll tone down to a GT28RS w/ .86 A/R Hotside. That should be a bit less horsepower, with earlier and smoother delivery.

[Benno]

I'm thinking Exige performance at a minimum.

I'd also like to see F5 take one around the nurburgring, could be great publicity and would be an interesting comparison although I suspect the 818 would ideally be suited to tighter, more technical tracks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times

[bbatts]

Where is a good TRUST-WORTHY source and info. or shop for 350 HP+ turbo subies?

BB

I'm on my 3rd turbo subaru and now driving a 415whp car that will get it's heart transplanted into an 818. It's not terribly hard to reach the magical 400whp number with the STI motor. You really need the 2.5L and you need a GT30R or similarly sized turbo with all the supporting mods.

Fortunately, the 818's drivetrain will have significantly less parasitic loss without the AWD. So, I'm going to bet that 400whp will be readily achieved in the 818 with a much quicker spooling setup. I'm thinking a stock STI block with ID1000's, a Blouch 20g, Spearco TMIC and a great tune will get you 400whp with the 818.

Personally, I'm going to run my built motor with heads/cams, equal length headers and a GT30R with AEM standalone ECU to ensure the power delivery is as smooth as possible. That being said, if I can't fit 295 R Compounds in the back...I've got no shot of hooking up. If necessary, I'll tone down to a GT28RS w/ .86 A/R Hotside. That should be a bit less horsepower, with earlier and smoother delivery.

[Xusia]

+1!

[scott hall]

I would like to best an Elise SC in acceleration, handling & Power:Weight?

[Sandy Washburn]

[QUOTE=bbatts;41581]Where is a good TRUST-WORTHY source and info. or shop for 350 HP+ turbo subies?

DENTSPORT GARAGE in Norwood MA (dentsport.com) has been building competitive racing Subaru STI engines for eight years.
Their race cars have included a 2011 RALLY AMERICA Subaru competitor and many other successful race cars. They have dyno charts on
their web site for many Subaru STI engines with rear wheel HP in the 350-400 range. They also know what the
weak links are in these engines and how to prevent them from destroying the engines through their racing feedback from customers
and many rebuilds.

[gorilla]

Where is a good TRUST-WORTHY source and info. or shop for 350 HP+ turbo subies?

BB

www.IAGPerformance.com

Impeccable reputation, full service facility. They build motors, fabricate, CNC and build some of the fastest subies in America and they have a top notch body shop. Check them out on Nasioc and Facebook.


I used to work for them, so I might be partial! but their vendor review thread on nasioc speaks for itself.

[gorilla]

Also, ask away...I've sold quite a few 350+hp builds for IAG. So I can help you guys figure out what your going to need to reach your goals.

I've built two WRX's and a Legacy with varying setups and HP levels.

[Movieman]

My yardstick?
The first thing out of my passenger's mouth must be "HOLY SH*T!"

No, the first thing out of your passengers mouth needs to be a scream of terror and then the HOLY SH*T!

[vozproto]

[QUOTE=Sandy Washburn;41608]

Where is a good TRUST-WORTHY source and info. or shop for 350 HP+ turbo subies?

DENTSPORT GARAGE in Norwood MA (dentsport.com) has been building competitive racing Subaru STI engines for eight years.
Their race cars have included a 2011 RALLY AMERICA Subaru competitor and many other successful race cars. They have dyno charts on
their web site for many Subaru STI engines with rear wheel HP in the 350-400 range. They also know what the
weak links are in these engines and how to prevent them from destroying the engines through their racing feedback from customers
and many rebuilds.

I would be interested to see what the package prices are for such a motor and what would come with it.

But at the same time its hardly a testimonial when the owner (or relative of) is the one that recommends it.
"Sandy Washburn" ... co-owner is "Bill Washburn" Hardly a coincidence.

And you may want to check with the admins/Dave Smith before self promoting and dealing your wares here.
If you really are a go-to shop the last thing we want is for you to be black-balled after 1 post.

[Flamshackle]

In NZ if you want a 400+HP Subaru motor you are looking down the barrel of 8-10K. fortunately for me I already have one There are guys here running 550+HP out of the little 2.5 liter 4 bangers!

No idea what your USDM costs would be...

[b1u3]

Where is a good TRUST-WORTHY source and info. or shop for 350 HP+ turbo subies?

One of the biggest reasons I'm on my third Subaru (Impreza -> WRX -> STI) is the enthusiast communities such as NASIOC. If you aren't familiar with this forum, I highly encourage perusing the wealth of of information therein.

NASIOC Forums:Technical



Motorsports

Proven Power

[bbjones121]

Where is a good TRUST-WORTHY source and info. or shop for 350 HP+ turbo subies?

BB

subaru is your best source, just buy a stock turbo 2.5l engine and get a 18g or 20g turbo.

350hp is all your aspirations? if that is at the crank, you are well within reliable engine output from the stock engine (turbo model subaru of course). If you are talking whp, than you can probably still run it on a stock 2.5l(turbo) engine. I have been running around 400+hp from the crank of my stock block Legacy for over 4 years now. The 818 will be much lighter than my legacy and put a lot less strain on the engine the vast majority of the time. If you are worried, get an STI 2.5l engine that has even more robust internals, if you are still worried, get a 09+ STI engine with even stronger internals.

For your power number of 350, you do not need more than stock on any of the turbo 2.5l subaru engines. (tip-don't punch it with the engine is cold, let it warm up first and it will last longer)

[bbjones121]

A realistic yardstick? Exige territory. 0-60 around 4.5 (by me, but probably 4.0 by a great driver), top speed probably only 140 or so.

My yardstick is way beyond that, my subaru legacy is in Exige territory 0-60 and quarter mile. I am hoping atom or caterham territory on the dragstrip front, that would obviously require some very sticky tires. Power is not a problem out of built 2.5 engine. My realistic yardstick is sub 3 second 0-60mph and 1/4 mile in lower 10's.

I want to tell people I am quicker or as quick as a Bugatti Veyron (everyone knows what that car can do and would be amazed).

[thane]

My '06 wagon with an off the shelf stage 2 Cobb map, Cobb downpipe, and stock catback runs a 14 flat 1/4 @ 97mph. Gets an average of 25mpg with moderate, mixed driving. I've never dyno'd the car, but my guess is that in it's current configuration it has around 210whp/270crank hp. My aspiration is to buy a new DD and use my wagon as the donor car. My guess is that with no further mods, I'm looking at a mid/high 12 at about 115. That sounds good to me. Lateral g. of 1-1.05 on decent summer tires-enough to garner the attention of the fine folks at the auto-X. Keeps me dry in the rain. Gets 35 mpg average. I think that all of those are attainable goals and will leave me very, very happy. It'd be fun to be in GTR territory, but I think I'd have to have at least 350hp, just to keep up below 120mph. The reliability/cost quotient starts to get too high. Those that are starting with an STI though, might have an easier time.

thane

[bbatts]

Thanks for noticing the self promotion aspect. I don't buy into that either. Actually I consider this as a very a questionable business practice when you don't seem to have any other customer reference other than yourself. So if I eliminate this shop from consideration, I am STILL looking for a TRUST-WORTHY shop for my engine business.

BB

[QUOTE=vozproto;41616]

I would be interested to see what the package prices are for such a motor and what would come with it.

But at the same time its hardly a testimonial when the owner (or relative of) is the one that recommends it.
"Sandy Washburn" ... co-owner is "Bill Washburn" Hardly a coincidence.

And you may want to check with the admins/Dave Smith before self promoting and dealing your wares here.
If you really are a go-to shop the last thing we want is for you to be black-balled after 1 post.

[thane]

As long as I'm here, I'll add that IAG performance has been very good to me. Good service and good product at good prices. I make a point to drive the hour and change to go to them, when I need service.

thane

[SkiRideDrive]

I was looking around on some other threads and it looks like a 16g turbo wouldn't be a bad way to go.

[SkiRideDrive]

Back on topic though, I am basically hoping for an inexpensive exige.