Help! Issues with coupe just delivered.

[jmsrx]

I purchased the 2018 SEMA coupe from a dealer in Miami. So the car was delivered today. Unfortunately I’m already having an issue. It started just fine when they drove it out of the trailer and onto my driveway. We turned it off quickly since it was early on Sunday morning and the car is very loud. I waited a few hours and tried to start it. It started for a couple of seconds then cut out. I tried multiple times and it would try to turn over but acted like it wasn’t getting fuel. After multiple attempts it wouldn’t even try to start. No noises from the starter at all. Not even clicking noises. I pulled the battery and put it on a quick charge. After it was done I reinstalled it and tried again. Nothing. I fumbled around under the dash and my hand caught the battery cut off key. I turned it off, pulled the key and turned it back on. Still nothing. But for some reason soon after that without doing anything else the car attempted to start again. Still wouldn’t do it acting like it wasn’t getting fuel. Then after so many attempts it went silent again. Gauges, lights, etc. come on. It says I have a little over 12 volts and 3/4 tank of gas. This really is depressing since I just took delivery of my dream car. Pre purchase inspector in Miami started it multiple times without issue. Not sure if it makes a difference but it came from Miami to central Oklahoma where it is currently very cold. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Papa]

The car was built with a Coyote engine. Have you checked for codes with a scan tool? Battery could simply be bad and not providing the cranking amps needed. Obviously, the car ran, so my guess is a bad battery.

[jmsrx]

The car was built with a Coyote engine. Have you checked for codes with a scan tool? Battery could simply be bad and not providing the cranking amps needed. Obviously, the car ran, so my guess is a bad battery.

The inspector in Miami checked for codes but found none. He stated that he started it multiple times without issue. The thing that is confusing me is the drastic switch between attempting to start and then not even trying, no clicks or anything. I will eliminate the easiest first though and pick up a new battery.
Thank you,

[jmsrx]

New battery. No luck. Not even attempting to start. No clicking or anything. The weird thing is that the times it did try to start it seemed more like a fuel issue. The starter didn’t drag at all. And after so many attempts it just wouldn’t do anything. It’s like a fuse blew but since it does occasionally try to start I wouldn’t think that a fuse is the issue. Maybe a wiring short?

[jmsrx]

Not sure if this is related or even out of the ordinary. With the key in the accessory or on position I can hear a very faint crackling noise coming from behind the dash. Maybe behind the voltmeter?

[jmsrx]

Not sure if this is related or even out of the ordinary. With the key in the accessory or on position I can hear a very faint crackling noise coming from behind the dash. Maybe behind the voltmeter?

Verified it is the voltage gauge making the noise. It may be normal. It’s very faint.

[jmsrx]

It tried to start again. It’s almost like an on/off switch where it will let me try sometimes then after 5 or so attempts absolutely nothing.

[Ltngdrvr]

When it tries to start but fails, could be the inertia switch for the fuel pump has been tripped.
Although I don't know why it would start coming off the truck, then not after just sitting for a short time.
I think there is a master fuse in the hot lead from the power distribution block to the battery.
But, if that was blown it wouldn't ever do anything at all.
Is it a Ford control pack for the engine control?

[jmsrx]

When it tries to start but fails, could be the inertia switch for the fuel pump has been tripped.
Although I don't know why it would start coming off the truck, then not after just sitting for a short time.
I think there is a master fuse in the hot lead from the power distribution block to the battery.
But, if that was blown it wouldn't ever do anything at all.
Is it a Ford control pack for the engine control?

Yes it is. When it isn’t trying to start at all the digital mileage readout on the speedo goes completely blank when I turn the key. It’s like all power is being drawn away. Not sure if it is helpful or not but the first time I tried to start it it did run for about two seconds then shut off. Then it was about 7 attempts at starting before it stopped completely. Then this pattern seems to be able to be repeated every once in a while at random.

[Ltngdrvr]

Yes it is. When it isn’t trying to start at all the digital mileage readout on the speedo goes completely blank when I turn the key. It’s like all power is being drawn away. Not sure if it is helpful or not but the first time I tried to start it it did run for about two seconds then shut off. Then it was about 7 attempts at starting before it stopped completely. Then this pattern seems to be able to be repeated every once in a while at random.

You almost for sure have a battery or ground issue.

[jmsrx]

You almost for sure have a battery or ground issue.

I think I ruled out battery by installing a new one. Could be a ground issue.

[jmsrx]

I have attached a link for a video of an instance where it let me try to start it then suddenly stopped.

[Papa]

Definitely not a battery issue. It takes three things to make the engine run; fuel, air, spark. With the Coyote, there is another thing you can check and that's the MAF in the intake. Make sure the air ducting is fully attached. The failure to start when cranking is one thing, but the nothing happening at all is likely because something is preventing the Coyote from getting a start signal. I'll bow out and let those familiar with the Coyote help you, but it's likely a pretty simple thing to resolve. Try contacting EdwardB though PM. He's very well versed in the Gen2 and Gen3 Coyote.

[Fman]

If it were me I would start by checking fuse panel to make sure you did not blow a fuse, could be something that simple. And you are sure the fuel gauge is reading properly and you definitely have fuel in the tank?

[Shannon4570]

Working under the assumption that a Ford PCM controlled motor and and a Chevy are similar. I installed an LS3 in my 69 Camaro and I found it's typically the little things that prevent the engine from starting. You definitely are cranking over fast enough and your PCM should have enough voltage based on your video. First things first - when you switch the key to run, do you hear the fuel pump cycle? Should buzz for second or two to pressurize the system. If no buzz, check the electrical supply to the fuel pump. If buzzing then you've got something telling the PCM to not fire - either a fuse (panel or inline) or something became bumped or dislodged during unloading. Check all that is checkable, particularly at the battery voltage supply and areas like that.

Since it's intermittent my experience has been it's something simple. Be methodical and know that these engines fire off with about 2 seconds of cranking so just keep testing.

[mburger]

I’m not a coyote guy so I’m not sure if you would normally hear the fuel pump come on with key on. I definitely hear mine. I agree with Travis. If it was low and running out of gas it would easily do everything you just described coming off the trailer etc. I would check for fuel pressure.

[jmsrx]

Definitely not a battery issue. It takes three things to make the engine run; fuel, air, spark. With the Coyote, there is another thing toy can check and that's the MAF in the intake. Make sure the air ducting is fully attached. The failure to start when cranking is one thing, but the nothing happening at all is likely because something is preventing the Coyote from getting a start signal. I'll bow out and let those familiar with the Coyote help you, but it's likely a pretty simple thing to resolve. Try contacting EdwardB though PM. He's very well versed in the Gen2 and Gen3 Coyote.

I can’t help feeling that the two issues are somehow related since they started simultaneously. If something kept fuel from reaching the motor would the computer keep you from trying to start after so many tries? It is insane that they were able to drive it into my driveway and then after a couple hours it started for 2 seconds, died, and now what you see in the video.

[Erik W. Treves]

you need to verify if you are getting fuel and spark - when you initially turn the key do you hear the pump? My guess is the pump isn't running and I would check the inertial switch .. make sure it isn't tripped.

THere is also a starter protection circuit in the ECU to keep it from cranking continuously like you are doing....I would go get 5 gallons of gas and see if that changes things after you verify the pump is running.

[Papa]

I agree that whatever the cause is, it is likely resulting in the set of symptoms you are experiencing. There are likely codes getting set that could tell the story. If you don't have a scan tool, it's well worth the money to get one. They start at very reasonable prices and get more expensive with more advanced features. You can get something simple for under $100.

[jmsrx]

I checked all the blade fuses under the dash. I did not check any of the block fuses. I went ahead and added about a gallon of gas just in case the fuel level float was messed up and the fuel gauge wasn't reading correctly. When flipping the key into the on position you do hear what could be a fuel pump but the noise is coming from in front of me. I was thinking the fuel pump was in tank?? but I'm not sure. Here is another video. You may be able to hear what I can hear when I turn the key to on. You can also see what the gauges are doing as I try to start the vehicle.
Thank you,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoEZslkdnRI

[edwardb]

Link doesn't work... but Erik said the same thing I would add: (1) You're cranking just fine, but the PCM will shut it down after so many cranks. To protect the starter, etc. So my guess is that's not the probem. (2) You should hear the fuel pump run briefly when the key is first turned. It will definitely be from the back as the pump is in the in tank. Are you positive the inertia switch isn't tripped? That wouldn't explain why it started for you briefly. But still something to confirm. My bet is on a fuel issue of some kind. There is a fuse in the Coyote PDB. Plus maybe one in the Ron Francis panel, depending on how it was wired. One way or the other, sounds to me like it's not getting fuel. Just need to figure out why. And no, the PCM programming won't prevent it from cranking if there's no fuel pressure. It just won't start....

Don't let this sour you on the car. Stuff like this happens to all of us. You'll get it figured out. That's a very nice build and the Gen 3 Coupe is awesome. Hang in there.

[jmsrx]

Thank you everybody. I am about to go out and try to locate the inertia switch. It has been brought up multiple times.

[Erik W. Treves]

That sound isn't the fuel pump.. the pump is in the tank if I recall from the SEMA build... inertial switch and I am not sure one gallon would do it if it was super low.. which is why I mentioned 5 gallons to be sure.

[Jeff Kleiner]

All I’m hearing is the power up and sweep of the gauges. As has been mentioned, and I can confirm, the pump is in the tank. Inertia switch is behind the dash.

Jeff

[egchewy79]

clogged fuel filter? bad ground on fuel pump? disconnect of the "S" shaped fuel line inside the pump?

[jmsrx]

Henry has saved the day! He checked with Ron and it was decided that an inertia switch was likely not installed. Turned out to be a cheap part from Ford. The fuel pump connector was not contacting the posts on the fuel pump well. I pushed down on the connector while someone turned the key to on and the fuel pump engaged. The car then started as long as I was applying pressure to the connector. THANK YOU HENRY! My wife was giving me dirty looks which meant "You spent how much on a lemon?".

[65 Cobra Dude]

Glad we got it figured out Jim!

Henry

[jmsrx]

Glad we got it figured out Jim!

Henry

I want to thank everyone for helping out! The range of emotions was pretty crazy yesterday. I went from ecstatic that I just got my dream car to utter despair because it wouldn’t start then relief that it was a quick fix.

[Sdonnel]

Welcome to owning a "Insert name of hand built care here". Glad you got it figured out. Now, get it titled, insured, and start putting some miles on it. Be safe.

[FFinisher]

Never a reason for despair. We can figure out pretty much anything. Glad it worked out. As I told Henry I am not a fan of those connectors. Although there are literally Millions of them floating around the streets of America, I have had some issue with those that are part of the Ron Francis harness.

You will love the car, Its a good one. Surely not a Lemon,

[edwardb]

Glad it was something simple. I suspected it was. (Easy to say in hindsight...) One suggestion. Once you have confirmed that fuel pump connector at the tank is fully seated and the plastic latch mechanism properly captured, put a large heavy duty tie wrap around the connection. Paying specific attention to it closing firmly over the latching mechanism so it can't come apart. Looked for a picture, but couldn't find one. Hopefully you get the idea. This was suggested to me some years ago. I've never had one of these connections come loose on my builds (knock on wood) with the added tie wrap.

Now go enjoy that beautiful Coupe.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Good call Henry! You and I both know firsthand that this same problem has left others "dead in the water"

Jeff

[wallace18]

I have had a couple Ron Francis tank connectors go bad like this. I had to tighten the connectors so they connect on the pins correctly. Now I do it on all builds before installing the harness.

[jmsrx]

I was able to find a repair connector at CJ Pony Parts. A couple other sites I checked were out of them. Not sure if this is just a symptom of the current supply issues or if this particular connector may no longer be produced. That being said, has anyone come up with a more secure way to make the connection to the same fuel pump? I had an idea, which may be a terrible idea, but if it is I’m sure it will be pointed out by those in the know. If there is a threading tool small enough to fit in the space between the posts couldn’t the posts be threaded about half the way down and then a double nut setup be used with a ring connector on the end of each wire? You would have to find a good way to heat shrink wrap each connection and the posts so that there wouldn’t be any accidental contact between the two sides. Just my crazy idea but there may already be an easier fix out there.

[edwardb]

I was able to find a repair connector at CJ Pony Parts. A couple other sites I checked were out of them. Not sure if this is just a symptom of the current supply issues or if this particular connector may no longer be produced. That being said, has anyone come up with a more secure way to make the connection to the same fuel pump? I had an idea, which may be a terrible idea, but if it is I’m sure it will be pointed out by those in the know. If there is a threading tool small enough to fit in the space between the posts couldn’t the posts be threaded about half the way down and then a double nut setup be used with a ring connector on the end of each wire? You would have to find a good way to heat shrink wrap each connection and the posts so that there wouldn’t be any accidental contact between the two sides. Just my crazy idea but there may already be an easier fix out there.

Ford has used that connector successfully for millions of vehicles. If it’s in good condition, the pins properly engaged, and latched into the top of the fuel pump hangar, no need to re-engineer it IMO and experience. Did you see my recommendation to wrap a heavy duty tie wrap around the connector once fully seated? Capturing the latching mechanism? That has worked for me. Zero issues in 10+ years and thousands of miles.

[jmsrx]

Ford has used that connector successfully for millions of vehicles. If it’s in good condition, the pins properly engaged, and latched into the top of the fuel pump hangar, no need to re-engineer it IMO and experience. Did you see my recommendation to wrap a heavy duty tie wrap around the connector once fully seated? Capturing the latching mechanism? That has worked for me. Zero issues in 10+ years and thousands of miles.

I did order a connector and I will definitely use the zip tie to keep it in place. I was thinking about the future and if the part will be readily available. Thanks again!

[Papa]

There are millions of them in wrecking/salvage yards if you are someday not able to get a new replacement. I don't see any issue with availability of new replacement parts other than the ongoing supply chain situation.