WTB 818c kit - 818 discontinued?!

[Church]

I just completed my donor teardown, and went to go order my 818c kit, and of course no more orders are being accepted. I called and I was told there are talks internally that the 818 is not coming back next year at all, and the waitlist is just to gauge interest. So I am currently in the market for a non started kit, or someone with a pending order they are looking to get rid of? Long shot I know, but if I bought and stripped a donor car with no kit to put it in, my wife will kill me.

@FF - If what I heard from your rep is untrue, and the 818 is definitely coming back, PLEASE let me know!

[J R Jones]

Based on production projections, I predicted the GTM is discontinued after this year's 10 are delivered.
Considering new product announcements (F9 & Pre-runner) I questioned the 818's future as well.
It comes down to ROI, manufacturing space available, warrantee experience, supply, and orders.
Or maybe it is like having a bad marriage.
IMO I prefer the legacy products; they have innate devotion, FFR does not not have to create it.
jim

[wallace18]

Does not surprise me that they would discontinue the 818. Sales have been very slow last few years. GTM has suffered same issues. Some states like Florida have made it harder to title kit cars as well. My guess is there is still some unfinished kits out there to be had.

Just my 2-cents worth.

[J R Jones]

I did product development for OEMs in recreational industries. The Sales and Marketing observation on our efforts, and our competitor efforts, was that anything can be a sales success for one season. Legitimate success, justifying expensive tooling, is several seasons of success. Model year changes are often band aids. Again, legacy products are less risk. Creating a new market can be professional suicide.
jim

[taco20]

I just completed my donor teardown, and went to go order my 818c kit, and of course no more orders are being accepted. I called and I was told there are talks internally that the 818 is not coming back next year at all, and the waitlist is just to gauge interest. So I am currently in the market for a non started kit, or someone with a pending order they are looking to get rid of? Long shot I know, but if I bought and stripped a donor car with no kit to put it in, my wife will kill me.

@FF - If what I heard from your rep is untrue, and the 818 is definitely coming back, PLEASE let me know!

Hey Church

I don’t have an unstarted 818c but I do have a 818s that is about 80% completed and has already been titled for a good deal that you can finish and maybe use some of your parts to change out or sell off. Just an option if you can’t find the kit you want but want a car.

Anyway hit me up if you want any details.

[Sgt.Gator]

Destined to be a cult classic!

[Ajzride]

Unlike the Cobra, GTM, Coupe, or '33, the donor parts for the 818 are not in mass reproduction and donor cars are getting older and harder to find. I imagine the cost to update the platform to work with new donors does not provide a reasonable ROI based on forecasted sales. The 818 had a lot of potential as a lower cost mid-engine chassis, but the promise of a paint free body that never came true coupled with some very frustrating design oversights (bump steer anyone?) killed all the momentum after just a few years. I only took on an 818 because I saw it as a good "starter project" as compared to a GTM or SLC because Subaru parts are much cheaper than Corvette parts. I was basically looking at 818s and K-1 Attack kits when I found a steal on a partial build on eBay. For me it has been exactly what I wanted, a good mid-priced project that I can learn a lot of lessons from and basically throw away the build manual and go full custom just to see how far I can push myself. But for someone who bought into the initial sales pitch of a bolt it together in a few weekends - paint free - Subaru based - Boxster competitor, it was a huge disappointment and that bad mojo hurt the product.

[J R Jones]

Aj, You get it. Perhaps product planning was flawed in choosing the Subaru. Surveying the aftermarket, Honda and even Toyota have a huge following.
An analogy would be the traditional Harley Davidson. Even without Harley you would never want for parts or support. (That may not hold true for their new products)
Moreover adopting Subaru durability vs Honda or Toyota is a questionable choice foistered on the FFR customer.
jim

[lance corsi]

I agree with AJ. Well put. The design and engineering work needed to make the car better was worked out by the 818 community already. No responses. Might as well abandon it, force everyone to buy into a Cobra build.

[Church]

All great points, except for those of us who dropped thousands on a donor, spent months doing teardown and engine rebuild only to have the only kit to accept it go away... Now what lol

[Ajzride]

I'm sure someone will have a kit to unload, just keep your eyes on eBay and the classifies here on the forum.

[drewr]

They chose Subaru because it was a flat four boxer engine. The more closely to replicate the weight and handling characteristics of a Porsche flat engine. Maybe Honda and Toyota engines are easier to source, but most Porsche clone builders will choose a Subaru boxer if the real deal is unobtainable.

[rjp]

I am in the same boat, though didn't get as far as disassembling my donor, I did go to the build school in April and ordered a build manual. It ran 3 years ago (but needed work) when I bought it and parked it, so I could fix it up and sell it. Of course, that's not what I'd like to do. Make sure you get on the "wait list", since they are using that to gauge interest. The only detail I got is that internal conversations are ongoing, and it sounds like one of the big stumbling blocks is that they have some minimum buys (I'm guessing on custom glass).

"Some of the parts we need to order from our partner vendors have higher minimum quantities, and we are trying to project our potential usage of these parts before placing the order."

I'm still really frustrated that all they're publicly saying is that they're sold out for the year.

The problem with most of the kits for sale when you have a donor already is that almost every kit I've seen come up for sale is at the go-kart stage or later, or is being sold with all the donor parts. There was one untouched kit for sale on the 818 Builder FB group at the start of the year, but I was unable to get in touch with the seller.

Edit: Hah, this account is just slightly older than how long I've had my donor, and finally made a post. Sold my condo and bought a house with enough garage space to work on the project since then. Things finally lined up to order a kit this year, went to the build school, and the day before I left I saw the 'sold out' notice. It caught several people at the build school off guard.

Edit2: They told me there were 70 people on the wait list in early April when I emailed.

[Church]

I'm more frustrated with the way they did this. This is the kind of thing that should be announced well ahead of time like "We will be discontinuing the 818 come next year, so get your orders in before EOY" Or something like that. Just logging in one day and it's gone, while they are still actively marketing towards purchasing the kit isn't great, especially when I've had several conversations with employees during the disassembly, and none mentioned this might happen.

[rjp]

I'm more frustrated with the way they did this. This is the kind of thing that should be announced well ahead of time like "We will be discontinuing the 818 come next year, so get your orders in before EOY" Or something like that. Just logging in one day and it's gone, while they are still actively marketing towards purchasing the kit isn't great, especially when I've had several conversations with employees during the disassembly, and none mentioned this might happen.

I don't disagree at all. I've been looking at other options in case they do drop the axe on the 818, but there are few options stateside that make use of Subaru donors that I've been able to find.

[FFRWRX]

I agree with AJ. Well put. The design and engineering work needed to make the car better was worked out by the 818 community already. No responses. Might as well abandon it, force everyone to buy into a Cobra build.

I agree completely. Didn't really want to turn this into a FF bashing, but it is their fault if something like this isn't selling enough to continue. If someone is considering building an 818C that doesn't have a lot of experience and wants something fairly simple that won't take too long, maybe they read up about it on this forum. And they find that the side windows basically don't work, the body panel fit (especially the A-pillar/door/fender) is horrible, and other areas that builders on this site have spent countless hours improving....well.....that's not going to be a sales pitch!

I sent information to FF on a very easy change to get the side windows working perfectly. They responded with a bunch of stuff that really didn't say why they couldn't do it. It was originally advertised as having pre-colored body panels that didn't need any work (kind of missed the mark with that one!). I generally see them as over promising and under delivering, but I'm in the minority. The guys that bend over backwards to praise them and always say "you are building a whole car, of course you are going to have to do a little work" are the ones that get heard by FF. So how is a completely finished carbon fibre body going to work out? Based on their history, very poorly.

OK, rant over..........for now.

Rick

[ntopliffe]

I reached out to FF yesterday and was told the following:

Sorry, but we are not taking orders for the 818 right now as we have sold out of our production spots for the moment. We have started a Contact/Wait List for the 818 that I have gone ahead and added your info to. We’ll get in touch with people on that list when any news/updates on the 818 become available. We’ll also share that info on our website and social media pages.

Unfortunately, the GTM is out of my price range and I've already done the MK4. I'm looking for something with better performance than the MK4 and the 818 seemed perfect. I met with Dave C yesterday and got a rundown. He's recommending either the GTM or Karting. Any advice is appreciated before I pull the trigger on a Subaru donner vehicle.

[Ajzride]

Closest thing to a 818 is probably a K1 Attack

https://www.k1-attack.com

[lance corsi]

I’ve seen some very nice looking kits along the same lines from Europe. Didn’t get the names but theyre out there. Not sure about the mid engine either but it really doesn’t package well. Front engine/rear drive is much easier to service.

[Ajzride]

Front engine/rear drive is much easier to service.

As much as I love the look of a mid-engine setup, the 818 is probably the only one I’ll ever have. You are right everything is a pain in the butt to package and the ergonomics suck.

[lance corsi]

AJ, me too. I’m not doing another kit car after this one.