Carl's and Phil's Mk4 Body Work and Paint

[k-roy]

Looking great and like you are making great progress. Wish I was there.... sort of.

Is there a reason we paint the underside? I have seen it on multiple threads and was planning on painting mine that way. I am curious as to the reasoning behind it

[flyboyjy]

Did you send the wife and family away while you are doing this? Even the most understanding wife will complain about the smell the first time you pull the paint gun trigger.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I also put glazing putty on the seams to cover up all the pin holes.

You'll very likely see more pinholes once it's all one color, especially on the door, hood and trunk lid edges. Fill them before you begin sanding, otherwise they fill with dust and will be more difficult to find.

If the fans are doing their job any filters in front of them will probably plug quickly so keep an eye on them.

Give me a shout if you need anything and good luck!

Jeff

[hineas]

Thanks Jeff! I definitely will, since I already have questions. Thank you for the generous offer.

[hineas]

Today was an eventful day.

It started off frustratingly, though. I couldn't find my tools, I had issues getting my garage doors taped off, and my morning just took too long.

I finally got ready to spray Slick Sand. Before spraying, my nephew and I did a trial run. I connected my spray gun to the compressor and I sprayed the entire car with air. We practiced the route we wanted to take, we practiced hose management, we practiced crawling under the car to spray the cockpit and hood inner edges, we practiced handing the gun off to each other, etc. For those who are doing it their first time like me, I HIGHLY recommend doing a dry run to figure things out. We made mistakes and figured out how to do difficult areas before we actually had paint in the gun.

We then mixed the Slick Sand and sprayed a few coats. We ran into some issues with the catalyst and so couldn't spray the entire two gallons. We did, however, get two good coats on the car. I was worried it wasn't enough, but we were able to sand the entire car and we didn't burn through.

I also had an issue where I didn't tighten the inner nozzle enough.
It came off while spraying. The outer collar kept the nozzle in, but the air chamber filled with paint. I made a huge mess figuring it out (luckily not on the car). This happened immediately after mixing a quart of paint. By the time I cleaned the gun the entire quart was hard as a rock. Ugh. I guess you live and learn.

We did make a few other mistakes. I hit the hose on the underside of the hood. Also, when passing the gun over the car my nephew didn't realize the top lid had an air vent and he dropped a big drop on the car. These were non issues and we sanded them out. In hind site, maybe we should pass the gun under the wheel well? I'm not sure which would be safer on a hose management standpoint.

It took us about 4 hours to sand the car with 3 of us. I didn't have 150 grit like Jeff recommended, but I had 180. I think a little more grit would have been nice, but the 180 worked well.

I was impressed with my spraying for being a total newb. The orange peel was similar to the orange peel on car from a dealer. Not too shabby.

The slight orange peel made sanding nice. We basically just sanded until the orange peel was gone. That was our guide coat.

I am also impressed with our body work. I can't see ANY lines where the Rage Gold is. Also, when the Slick Sand was wet the reflection looked pretty darn straight. I hope that means the final product will have straight reflections. I know it won't be perfect, but we can say we did it

Here is the car before sanding:

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Here is the car after sanding:

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Sanding the front end was a big fat paint. All those curves are hard!

All in all it was a successful day. Tomorrow we clean the garage, buy primer and sealer, then spray!

I spent 13 hours working today, my nephew spent 10, and my brother spent 4.

Total man hours up to this point: 140

[egchewy79]

kudos...much respect for tackling this on your own. why is your garage so clean?! is it a new build?

[hineas]

kudos...much respect for tackling this on your own. why is your garage so clean?! is it a new build?

Ha ha ha! Nope, the house is 18 years old. It is clean because we spent a day cleaning it out! All of the junk is on our patio right now...

[hineas]

Today was a great day!

It started off with buying paint. That process took 3 hours. The paint shop answered a ton of my questions and was a great help.

We didn't decide on a color until we were at the paint shop. We ended up going with Mazda Soul Red Crystal. PPG has a version that isn't a tricoat, which is great. I really didn't want to spray a tricoat. It will be interesting to see if the base and clear has an much depth as the tricoat.

I had some questions so I called up Jeff K. He was a great help. His tips and insights made today go so much more smoothly and will help in the rest of the job. I can't thank him enough!

Next we moved on to cleaning out the dust from the garage. We cleaned it again. Next we cleaned the garage. We cleaned some more. I think we may have cleaned it one more time. The dust never seems to end. Then we cleaned the car. We degreased the car. We used a tack cloth. Once everything was clean we suited up and started the primer.

Over all it went well. I had one run because I accidentally got the gun too close. Not a big deal, it sanded right out. I also had a drip, this time it was my fault. I turned to say something to my hose helper and I tipped the full gun just enough to drip. I guess you learn from your mistakes. Hopefully I won't do that during the color.

Once we finished spraying we let it sit for a few hours (we followed the TDS of the primer) then sanded. The TDS said to dry sand with 400, so we smoothed it out with 400.

While sanding there were a few spots that had some rough texture. Looking back at my spraying, they were all in areas I had trouble positioning the gun perpendicular to the body. I think I had the gun angled so the spray dried a little before hitting the panel. I'll work on my technique in those areas. I also wonder if I didn't have enough air so the droplets were too big? I'll play with my technique and see if it helps.

The body is all ready for sealer in the morning. We just have to clean. It is looking great!

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I spent 9 hours today, my nephew spent 6, and my brother spent 6.

Total man hours up to this point: 161.

[hineas]

Looking great and like you are making great progress. Wish I was there.... sort of.

Is there a reason we paint the underside? I have seen it on multiple threads and was planning on painting mine that way. I am curious as to the reasoning behind it

I just realized I never answered your question!

I did the bed liner because I was told to do it.

In all seriousness, though, I did it because of two concerns. First, I did it in hopes of reducing issues with rocks hitting the underside of the fenders. I have been told that if a rock hits the underside of the fender hard enough it can put a star crack in the paint. I don't know if the bed liner is enough to fully prevent it, but I assume it helps.

The other reason I have been told is because the fiberglass can be partly see through. When we flipped out over there are several areas that allowed light to pass through. A few people have told me that this can cause the paint to look different on those areas in certain lighting situations.

I don't know if these are actually big issues, but it really wasn't that much work. If it reduces these issues, then it is totally worth it.

[Mike.Bray]

That's a really nice shade of red, not much on the orange end of the scale. I love red, most of my cars have been "resale red" lol. I wanted to do my MKIV red but my wife's favorite color is blue so we compromised.....on blue.

I think your car is going to look great!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Once we finished spraying we let it sit for a few hours (we followed the TDS of the primer) then sanded. The TDS said to dry sand with 400, so we smoothed it out with 400.

I'd like to see you go 600 wet before sealer. Although 400 scratch doesn't seem like much it can catch the flake and let the sanding scratches show through. If you decide to do this it'll only take about an hour or so but just know that 600 wet cuts really fast so go easy around edges and points.

Jeff

[hineas]

Thanks Jeff. We appreciate the tips!

Today was a good day. We cleaned up the garage, we used some degreaser on the car, used a tack cloth, then sprayed the sealer. The sealer was great. It went on without any issues. I hope the rest of the coats go on so easily!!!

I did focus on keeping my gun perpendicular to the panels and maintaining a steady distance. This really helped prevent the dry spray I had on the previous coat.

We then let the sealer dry for a few hours and moved on to color. We decided to spray the stripe white. We chose Toyota Super White, which is just a plain white.

Over all the white went on well. We did 3 coats. It covered well. I did have one small run at the nose. There are so many curves, nooks, crannies, and edges at the nose that it is easy to get too much material. I will go less on the material next time.

I fixed the run with 600 grit we. Thankfully, the run turned out to be outside the stripe, that's means I don't have to respray the white.

Once the white was dry enough (several hours) we moved on to the stripe.

Finding a centerline that looked good took a while. We first put the hood and trunk in place. We then found the center line at the trunk by locating the center of the area for the license plate light. We then found the front center by measuring the oil cooler hole just below the radiator hole. We taped a string at these two locations. We then stretched the string to get an idea of where center should be.

The next spot we focused on was between the dual roll bars. We figured this was important because the eye will see if the stripes aren't centered between the roll bars. Once we taped the string down at this point, we then moved on to the hood scoop. We put the hood scoop on and held it in place with a few rivet. We put the nail end of the rivet through the holes and took care not to damage the paint. With the hood scoop of place we tweaked the string so it was centered on the scope. From here we nudged the string around until it looked perfect. Once we were pleased, we did a dotted line with 1/4" fine line tape under the string. Once the center line was marked we then removed the string. From the 1/4" dotted line we could measure out the 1" gap between the stripes. It took a while, but it looks good.

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I have read Jeff and Jeff and others complain that the trunk latch hole is not centered under the license plate hole. I extended my centerline down from the license plate and sure enough, my hood latch hole isn't directly centered below the license plate light. We will do Jeff K's trick and just do a jog under the license plate light. I'll include a picture when we get it done.

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We decided to call it a night since it was after midnight. Right now it looks like tomorrow we will be spraying the body color!

I spent 8 hours today, my nephew spent 6, and my brother spent 6.

Total man hours up to this point: 181.

[hineas]

This morning we finished masking the stripes. I was amazed at how long that took. We spent a ton of time making sure the lines were straight, the stripes looked centered, etc. Spending extra time here sure paid off. I talked to Jeff yesterday and he made sure to tell me to not stretch the fineline tape. That was a great tip. He said that stretching it can cause it to retract and mess up your lines. Thank you!

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Once it was taped we we spent time looking at it to make sure it looked right. The above picture is a little misleading. I used the wide angle camera on my phone and the hood is lower than the body so it looks like there is a jog in the line. But in person the jog isn't there.

The stripe layout we used is as follows:

The gap in the center is 1" wide.

We started at the oil cooler hole below the radiator. We made the stripe cover the entire hole and the outer line is just outside the hole. This made each stripe 7" wide. We took this lline straight up to the lip above the radiator. From this lip to the curved edge under the windshield we widened each stripe 3/4" per Jeff's recommendations. This made the stripe 7.75" wide at the front of the cockpit. Behind the cockpit we started at 7.75" wide and went back to 7.25" wide at the edge of the trunk.

The reason for widening the stripe in the middle is because perspective and the way the curves in the car are positioned, it makes the middle of the stripe look narrow.

We used 1/4" fineline tape for the edges. We also did a 1/4" pinstripe on the outside of the large stripe. We spaced it 1/4" away from the main stripe.

Once everything was done with masking we made sure all the edges were pressed down. Then we cleaned and tacked and prepped for be paint.

Spraying the color was nerve racking, but it went well. Spraying is much easier with the stripe masked because it split the car into sections. It made managing the spraying less complicated.

I did have a few mistakes. For example, on the door I had my nozzle turned parallel to my direction of travel. I only sprayed an inch, but it was too concentrated. I got lucky and it just changed how the flake was laid down. I let it dry for a few minutes so it wouldn't run. I came back and resprayed the area. The error disappeared and looked great.

Even though I sprayed thinner coats, I still got a run on the nose. Luckily it is low and below the body mount holes. The only way you can see it is if you are lying on the ground. We decided that wasn't worth sanding and respraying. There were no other runs so I'm happy!

I did 3 coats. On the last coat I would spray one section of the car then did a drop coat on the same area before it dried. For those who don't know, a drop coat is where you increase the distance between your gun and the body panel (I did perhaps 15" away). You do a light dusting of what you just painted. From what I understand, (correct me if I'm wrong), the reason is because the metallic flake orients differently and causes stripes while spraying. The drop coat puts a mist of metallic flake that orients the same way so it doesn't cause tiger stripes.

The color looks phenomenal. I can't wait to see it with the clear coat.

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We let the color dry for a few hours then removed the tape. I was nervous, but I didn't need to be. We made sure to pull the tape directly back over itself so we cut the paint vs lifting the paint off. Removing the tape was honestly just as exciting as the first start. It looked so good.

I did get a scare, though, while removing the tape. The red paint on the tape flaked off and dusted the white stripe. I though I had sprayed through the tape and got red on the stripe! Luckily it was just dust.

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I am more than pleased with the paint job up to this point. Take a look for yourself!

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We also decided to gently lay the hood scoop on the hood. Man it looks good.

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In the next picture you can see how we dealt with the fact the trunk handle isn't centered below the license plate holder. This is the solution that Jeff K. has posted previously, so thank you! We ended the center stripe from the top in middle of the license plate light. We then centered a stripe at the trunk handle and took that straight up to the license plate light. The funny jog is hidden by the license plate light and you don't notice it with the license plate in place.

The jog is pretty ugly, but we don't care since it will be covered. This picture shows what we did.

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Today I spent 8 hours and my brother spent 8 hours. My nephew had to leave yesterday so he wasn't there to help today.

Total man hours up to this point: 197.

[cc2Arider]

Nice work! What an accomplishment

I appreciate all the watch-outs and special mentions...Thanks!

Craig C

[Railroad]

Very Well Done!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Looking good!

Good luck with the clear

Jeff

[Lidodrip]

Great job, this has been a really fun thread to follow.

James

[hineas]

Today was the day to spray clear, and boy were we excited. We woke up early and prepped everything. Then we realized it was only 55 degrees outside, which is much too cold. We had to wait about 4 hours for it to get to 70 degrees. Oh well, I guess good things come to those that wait.

I move my air compressor at night since I have it outside the garage while spraying. When moving the air compressor back to get ready to spray I had a mishap. I caught the drain spout on the corner of a ledge. It snapped off flush at the bottom of the tank. It broke with all the threads still in the compressor. We were crushed! No air compressor meant no painting. And we were on a timeline since you have to get clear on within a certain time window for better bonding. I was ready to drive to Home Depot and buy a new compressor if I had to.

Before taking the expensive plan of buying a new compressor, we went to the local hardware store and looked around. They didn't have the correct size drain valve. They did had the right thread size but it was too long. Also, the valve looked like it had rusted in place and we had no idea how to get the broken part out. We thought about an EZ out, but didn't want to break it when we absolutely need to fix it today.

We ended up deciding that we could get a 3/8" tap and just put a bolt in it as a plug. I bought an o-ring as well. Of that didn't work, then we would try the EZ out. We got home and I was able to tap the hole easily. Next, I wrapped the bolt with some thread tape and used the o-ring to get a good seal. It worked perfectly. The only bad part is now I have to release all the air through my air blow gun and then unscrew the bolt to drain the water. I'll get it fixed correctly at a later time. This was just temporary so I could get the clear coat applied.

Spraying the clear went really well. I did one thin wet coat. Then I did two full wet coats. It turned out phenomenal. There are a total of 3 runs in the clear, but they should sand out fine. The runs aren't big either. There are also no sags that I can see on the entire car. Not too shabby for my first time spraying an entire car!

I just looked at the car now (it has been 9 hours since spraying) and there are no new runs and still no sags. Overall I'm quite pleased.

We did have two errors that need some work. While spraying, my Tyvec suit ripped. A long fiber came off the rip and landed on the top side of the hood. It happened after the second coat but before the third. We noticed it while the second coat was still a fairly wet. We tried to get it out with a razor blade, but we were unsuccessful. The chemicals in the clear coat disintegrated the fiber. We got under the fiber with the corner of the blade, but it was just mush and fell apart.

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It is definitely not the end of the world. I am planning on sanding it down tomorrow and respraying the clear on the hood.

The other error was annoying. Some red dust sprayed on the white hood scoop during the first coat. Now the edge and corner just look dirty. I figure I will sand that down too and then respray at the same time as the hood. Luckily I have just enough paint left over to do that.

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Aside from those two issues (which aren't too hard to fix), the paint job came out great.

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Next is the cut and buff. We will probably do that next weekend. Then we put it all back together and start driving!

Time spent today: I put in 4 hours and my brother also did 4. I did not include time for the air compressor repair.

Total man hours up to this point: 205.

[mmklaxer]

Really impressive work! Kudos to you and all the others out there that tackle the paint on their own.

[Blitzboy54]

Great Job! I'm proud of you guys. I didn't have the coconuts to try my own paint. After watching you guys go through it I think if I ever do it again I will give it a go.

Can't wait to see it completely re assembled.

[Fman]

Bravo! Mad respect for builders who do there own body and paint, you truly have a Built not Bought build! Looking forward to seeing the final pics.

[hineas]

Thanks for all the kind words!

[Its Bruce]

'Really appreciate you tagging us along with this DIY. The work looks phenomenal!

You may want to check your maths on the total hours...

Today was an eventful day.
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.
Total man hours up to this point: 140

Today was a great day!
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Total man hours up to this point: 161.

Thanks Jeff. We appreciate the tips!
.
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Total man hours up to this point: 160.

This morning we finished masking the stripes.
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Total man hours up to this point: 176

[cc2Arider]

What a recovery...knowing you were on a deadline that couldn't budge!

Really outstanding effort and results

Craig C

[hineas]

'Really appreciate you tagging us along with this DIY. The work looks phenomenal!

You may want to check your maths on the total hours...

Thanks! That is even more depressing now that I have the hours at 205!

Usually I'm pretty good at math, but apparently not when I'm doing it in my head after a 14 hour day of work and falling asleep while writing the post...

[zarnold]

Awesome! Congrats on a job well done.

[Blitzboy54]

Thanks! That is even more depressing now that I have the hours at 205!

Usually I'm pretty good at math, but apparently not when I'm doing it in my head after a 14 hour day of work and falling asleep while writing the post...

205 to this point on your first build is crazy fast. FFR estimates 350 for a first timer. I'm guessing working with your brother has helped but holy cow you two are putting on a clinic.

[Jeff Kleiner]

205 to this point on your first build is crazy fast. FFR estimates 350 for a first timer...

Jesse,
Carl is talking 205 for body & paint, not the full build.

Jeff

[Blitzboy54]

Jesse,
Carl is talking 205 for body & paint, not the full build.

Jeff

Oops, Ha

Still doing a great job

[hineas]

205 to this point on your first build is crazy fast. FFR estimates 350 for a first timer. I'm guessing working with your brother has helped but holy cow you two are putting on a clinic.

Jeff was correct. This is just the hours for body and paint. I don't know if 205 is normal for a newb, and this is a partial over-estimate if one guy was doing it. There were several points along the way that having 2 people there didn't speed it up much. Also, I counted man hours as how many hours each of us worked. When spraying, having 2 people didn't speed much up since only 1 person was spraying and the other was just helping keep the hose away from the car. But I counted the hours for both people.

I think the 350 hours for a first timer to do the mechanical build is pretty accurate. I think we were at about 300 hours if I had to guess. The body work and paint is almost as much work as the mechanical build!

[hineas]

Today I did a few minutes of wet sanding to get the fiber out of the clear coat. The fiber had gone all the way down to the base coat so sanding took off some color. Since it took off some color, I'm going to have to respray the red and then the clear. Luckily it is the hood, so if I can't get things to blend I am only respraying the hood and not a larger area.

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My plan is to hopefull spray it tomorrow. The issue is that I work night shift and my shifts are long, so that makes getting things done during the day difficult. However, my brother comes back into town on Friday to cut and buff, so I am hoping to get it sprayed before Friday.

[k-roy]

"it's a beaut Clark"

er Carl.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Today I did a few minutes of wet sanding to get the fiber out of the clear coat. The fiber had gone all the way down to the base coat so sanding took off some color. Since it took off some color, I'm going to have to respray the red and then the clear. Luckily it is the hood, so if I can't get things to blend I am only respraying the hood and not a larger area.

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My plan is to hopefull spray it tomorrow. The issue is that I work night shift and my shifts are long, so that makes getting things done during the day difficult. However, my brother comes back into town on Friday to cut and buff, so I am hoping to get it sprayed before Friday.

If I were you...and I'm not...rather than trying to blend I'd just reshoot base and clear on the half of the hood that's flawed. Go from the outside pin on the side to be recoated and mask it plus the stripe and entire other side then shoot base (you can probably get by with a single coat plus a drop). For the clear mask from the outside of the wide stripe and the entire other side. This will have you clearing the repainted red, the outside pin and the narrow red on the repaired side. When you cut and buff you'll take out the ridge. Hit the area to be recoated with 600 beforehand.

My .02

Jeff

[hineas]

Thanks Jeff. I was trying to figure out the best way to do it. This way makes sense to have the base completely even. Thank you!

[hineas]

I am going to spray the hood either this morning or tomorrow morning. I am going to follow Jeff's recommendation and re-spray the base on half of the hood. I think that will be easier in the long run.

I do have some questions on the next steps (cut and buff):

First, we are going to sand the orange peel on the clear coat with 1000 grit. Then we will sand with 1500, 2000, and 3000.

Once everything is sanded, I am going to buff. I will likely do the initial buff with a wool pad, then switch to foam. I haven't decided what compound I am going to use for the buffing.

I know that I need to be careful on the edges. I know that I need to the rotary buffer spinning off the edge and not into the edge. I'm going to keep the pressure as light as possible and not rush. I also know that I need to use a lot of polishing compound and don't let it dry out. I have read on other threads that Jeff Miller says if you aren't flinging compound on the ceiling you aren't using enough.

My main question on the buffing is what do I do with all the nooks and crannies on the body? In other words, how do I buff the areas around the brake vents, oil cooler hole, etc. on the nose?

[Jeff Kleiner]

...I have read on other threads that Jeff Miller says if you aren't flinging compound on the ceiling you aren't using enough.

So, a couple of years ago my wife came out to the shop when I was buffing and said "You're not using enough." I said "What?" She replied "You told me your California buddy says if you aren't flinging it on the ceiling you aren't using enough."

My main question on the buffing is what do I do with all the nooks and crannies on the body? In other words, how do I buff the areas around the brake vents, oil cooler hole, etc. on the nose?

Don't go in there if you don't have to. Meaning that if there isn't trash or a flaw that needs to be sanded out and you have a nice finish and gloss inside those tight areas and others like door jambs, etc. leave 'em be.

My supplier called a couple of days ago and said he has a new 3M tool and system he would like for me to try out. I've got one cut to 3000 ready to polish so he's going to come by to let me check it out this afternoon. I'll report back...

Jeff

[hineas]

Ha ha ha. That sounds exactly like what my wife would say!

I was hoping you were going to say that. I am going to leave those areas alone.

[hineas]

For example, after the Slick Sand she said, "I thought you were painting it red?" Then after the primer she said, "It is still gray." Then after we sealed it, "It is gray. I can't see any changes. What are you doing all day in there?"

When I sprayed white I told her I was actually starting color. She pointed out that it was still gray and there was no red.

[hineas]

I resprayed the hood. I followed Jeff's recommendations and resprayed the base to the outer edge of the pinstripe and the clear to the outer edge of the wide stripe. It worked really well and you can't see the ridges from masking since it is on the line of the stripe.

I did, however, have to do 3 coats of base to get the defect completely covered. Also, my 3rd coat wasn't good and I had tiger stripes, even with my drop coat. I ended up doing one more base coat and now it looks great.

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We also started wet sanding the clear to get rid of the orange peel. It hurts to see a shiny finish go back to a matte finish, but it will look so much better when we buff. We got the doors, trunk, and rear of the vehicle sanded. We will finish the 1000 grit in the morning, and hopefully get the 1500, 2000, and 3000 finished tomorrow or Sunday.

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Total time spent today was 7 hours by me and 7 by my brother.

Total man hours on the body work and paint up to this point: 219

[hineas]

Today we finished wet sanding the body with 1000 grit. That was a big project and took a lot longer than I expected. Even though our orange peel wasn't bad (it wasn't great either), it took a long time to cut and smooth it out.

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We started wet sanding with 1500. This is SO MUCH faster than the 1000 since we aren't removing orange peel. The clear coat is still matte at 1500, but when it is wet the reflection is better than it was with 1000. I sanded the doors, hood scoop, and trunk in less time than it took to sand one door with 1000.

We are hoping to get the body completely sanded with 3000 today and maybe even start buffing this evening.