Which FFR Cobra? - Are the Older FFR Cobras Still Desirable? Opinions.....

[Breckenkamp]

I am sure this topic has been broached before on this forum, so please excuse my newbiness for possibly bringing up old stuff......
I am relatively new to the world of cobras and replicas (I've been a 4x4 guy all my life) and have started to really try and hunt down a cobra replica. The FFR cobras are really attractive to me because of the factory and owner support. When I first started looking at the FFRs I thought I had to have a MKIII or MKIV. Period. I didn't want anything old. However, I am seeing some really nice cars out there that are MKIIs and even original Factory Five Cobras (MKI??) that go back to the 90s. Is there any reason to turn one's nose up at these cars? Anything so compelling as to make me save up a little more and hold out for the newer car? The changes between the different kits / Marks through the years seem to be innovative, but not to the point they render the older cars undesirable. Am I correct with that assumption? I'd love to hear from anyone that would like to chip in how they like their MKI/MKIIs. Would they buy them again or hold out for a newer model? Why do they like them over newer versions....or not. Like I said I am seeing a good few of these older cars for sale, and some with what I considered pretty hefty ($40-50K) price tags for a car pushing 30 years old. I am looking at one with a build tag FFR1227K.....I am guessing an antique. But it appears to be a great car. I'll take any recommendations / help with sorting this out in my marble sized brain. Thank you!!

[egchewy79]

as mentioned on the other post, the MKI and IIs were typically built with donor parts, so a 20+ yr old car using 10-20yr old donor parts at the time. rusty fuel tank, degraded bushing/engine mounts, aged out tires, drum brakes, leaky gaskets are just a few things off the top of my mind.
suspension geometry has improved w/ the proprietary FFR spindles. Newer MK4s are usually built with crate drivetrains as well.
I'm sure you can find a nicely put-together MKI or II out there but keep in mind some of the parts may be dated.

[rthomas98]

really this is going to come down to the build quality of the person who put it together. There are quality MK1/2 that the builder spent the time to build it right so it is holding up well. There are MK4 that have horrible build quality and would be death traps. Whether MK1/2/3/4 you need to see it in person and if you have not built one there are people in this group that can help assess it for you. Quality of wiring, fit and finish, fluid leaks etc. I would not discount a quality build no matter the mark number. Just my 2 cents.

[svassh]

If you do a search on BAT bringatrailer.com you can look at price history. As others have mentioned it really comes down to build and paint quality. I've seen several threads where people have purchased newly built MK4s that looked beautiful but turned into lots of rework and issues due to poor build quality.

[Jeff Kleiner]

really this is going to come down to the build quality of the person who put it together. There are quality MK1/2 that the builder spent the time to build it right so it is holding up well. There are MK4 that have horrible build quality and would be death traps. Whether MK1/2/3/4 you need to see it in person and if you have not built one there are people in this group that can help assess it for you. Quality of wiring, fit and finish, fluid leaks etc. I would not discount a quality build no matter the mark number. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for saving me a lot of typing!

Yes, later generations are more refined but as stated I have seen some outstanding, often updated Mk1s (I’m talking about you Mark Burger ) and I’ve also seen some Mk4s that shouldn’t be on the road.

Judge the car by the completed product more so than what it began as.

Jeff

[Alec]

and I’ve also seen some Mk4s that shouldn’t be on the road.


Jeff

OK, I will bite! Please describe!

[weendoggy]

Just because it's newer, doesn't always mean it's better. I've seen/worked on both old and new builds that were purchased by new owners. Both got "bit", but as mentioned, it depended on who built the car. The older one was a MKI and it was a joke. Spent way too much and didn't have an experienced person check it out. Thus, I did a lot just to get it reliable. The newer build wasn't bad, but had a lot of little things that needed fixing or just made to work. It boils down to finding what you want, and having a trusted or good mechanic/technician to help you, then make a decision. With all the aftermarket parts available, you can build/repair one to be quite good. btw: I have a MKI that's been on the road over 22yrs and doesn't have a lot of "donor parts" as some people mention. We all didn't build them by the book.

[R. Button]

My Mark I did start out with donor parts - built by the, small assembly manual, back in 1997-1998. So it's been on the road for now 25 years (and covered a few miles too!).
Now the fun has been, to, over time remove some of the old donor stuff, as I upgrade it over the years. And I'm sure I'm not the only one running a Mark I - as Jeff name dropped Mark Burger's name as a very WELL built Mark I.
And officially I can have NY State historic Plates this year!!

[jts359]

I bought a MKII almost 2 years and in that time I have rewired it , Rebuilt the engine due to a bad cam , Installed power brakes , Changed the front springs , Installed a drop trunk kit and we drove the car to the Cobra meet in London Ohio and we had a blast and since the car has a soft top and heat we drive it as much as we can , I call it my fountain of youth , Go for it and enjoy the ride , Ed

[mburger]

As a proud Mk1 owner, if I knew then what I know now, I would likely have held off and purchased a Mk3 or Mk4. You want to be aware of three main differences between the Mk1 and all other versions.
First, on the Mk1 there is no lower foot box protection built into the frame. There is nothing between your lower extremities and the outside world, but a sheet of fiberglass and a sheet of aluminum. Granted, in these cars if you get hit, perhaps the extra steel tube around the foot box ends up being just piece of mind, but it would still be nice to have it there.
Second, there is no backbone. The backbone is the hump that runs through the cabin. On a Mk1 it is just aluminum riveted together to form the shape. Later versions have a full frame through that area. The difference is a much less flexible frame with the added frame structure. On a Mk1, the frame flexing presents itself in two ways at least it has to me. When really pushing the car through turns, it is not completely unusual to have a door pop open. You have have to be pushing it pretty good into the turn. Watch some of the old original cobras racing and occasionally you will see a driver grab a door and slam it shut. The other way is when the car is on a lift you will find the doors and trunk lid may not close properly because while you can’t see it, the body is slightly drooping. Once the car is back on all fours, all is right with the world again.
Finally, the later versions of the Cobra have a slightly narrower trunk. That may seem like a negative, but that allows you much wider tires in the back. and while my 295x50x15’s are pretty meaty, it would be nice to run some of these big fat Nitto’s back there.

Having said all that, I wouldn’t sell or trade the old girl for anything. Too much blood sweat and tears, and it becomes a part of you. We won’t discuss the money spent. lol
I have three times driven my car over 1000 miles one way to shows. The Ohio club show twice and the Texas club show once so reliability isn’t a concern.
As others have said, there is nothing wrong with an older version cobra. Just make sure it’s a safe build and you are aware of some of the differences. They all turn heads. They all will turn getting gas into a mini cruise-in at the pumps. They all will bring that same big smile every time you turn the key and put it in gear.

I am Extremely flattered that the likes of Jeff Kleiner and Ralph Button think that highly of my car. Your opinions mean the world to me. Thank you!
Here is the old girl at the FFR booth at LCS 2021. I was in amongst some awesome cars that day. The people weren’t so bad either, and at the end of the day, that’s really all that matters.

[Badfish]

Well, my tax assessor thinks my MKII was worth $50K!

[R. Button]

Ya the old door popping open created an annoying issue so when I was prepping for the new body (old body was "adjusted" by a deer!) I welded in a backbone for the car. It wasn't hard once you have the tunnel opened up.

Before the work was done just the top aluminum panel is off
tranny tunnel.jpg

Then this is what I was adding. It was not difficult, once the cover was off the tunnel.
tranny tunnel.jpg.jpg
I added more bracing but this gives you an idea about what Mark was referring to.

Ya the weld were cleaned up after. It was a while since I had welded stuff. SO the first welds needed a bit more clean up! The rest of the welds began to look much better.
And now the popping open of the door has gone away!

[weendoggy]

Wow! Nostalgia! Yep, it can all be done. When I did my body off (1812) five years ago, I added the backbone (removeable), cleaned up the wheel "bell bottom look" to be nice and tidy, modified the rear brake setup that North Race Cars sells (basically made it one piece), shortened LCA's in the rear with new heim joints, and actually did a new complete re-wire. I did all the seam work when it was built and they were/are tight as well as doing lowered foot boxes, sunken trunk and a lot more. So, it plainly boils down to what you want, how much you want to do, and just enjoy the ride, no matter where it takes you.

RB, never going to catch your mileage, but now finally approaching 100k. Nice to see the new look, Deep Purple comes to mind, Smoke on The Water!

[mburger]

Ralph, I still wish I added the backbone and also the lower foot box protection tube. Honestly, Henry and I were changing so much of the car all at one time it was straining my bank account and sometimes our patience! At some point I had to say, I’ve got to stop here and the back bone and foot box protection didn’t make it into the rebuild. My car was in his shop for at least six months and that was because Henry was not doing some work during the week so that I could do it on the weekends.
Who knows, maybe one of these days, right Henry? Henry?? Hello??

[mrmustang]

really this is going to come down to the build quality of the person who put it together. There are quality MK1/2 that the builder spent the time to build it right so it is holding up well. There are MK4 that have horrible build quality and would be death traps. Whether MK1/2/3/4 you need to see it in person and if you have not built one there are people in this group that can help assess it for you. Quality of wiring, fit and finish, fluid leaks etc. I would not discount a quality build no matter the mark number. Just my 2 cents.

As someone who has personally owned, built, rebuilt, restored more MK I's and MK II's than most on the forum (a few "professional" exceptions ) in my past (19 in total for the FFR's alone), I can tell you it's all about the quality of the build, and attention to detail by the original builder, or subsequent owners. The FAQ I wrote, some 20 year ago, and that is still used on these forums today, pretty much sums that up. If you as a potential owner, is not certain of what they are looking at, seek professional assistance from someone who knows more. A pre-purchase inspection is highly recommended from a safety standpoint, as you could get taken for a ride, and not in a good way, by a shiny paint job, but horrible mechanicals.

Just my two cents worth on the subject.

Bill S.

PS: The scariest pre-built FFR I ever purchased was a certain MK I out of Florida, with over 15,000 miles on it....Why the scariest, only the left front brakes worked, the rest of the brake rotor/drums and pads were like brand new, having never worked from the initial build...That, and the upper steering column coming out in my hands, along with the steering wheel, having never been crossbolted in.........15,000 miles like this.......The car was a mess, and should have never been out of the garage, let alone driven on the street by it's original owner/builder.....There are plenty of such Cobra builds (not just FFR's) like this out there..........

[R. Button]

AND I forgot to give credit to weendoggy for sending me the pictures of how he welded in the backbone in his car, which I used to weld up in my car!

[mburger]

Would it be ok to also get the info on how to weld the backbone? I’m assuming the info is specific to welding it with the sides of the tunnel present?
Otherwise I can weld although it’s been a long time.

[AC Bill]

Issues with the early models were discovered by builders/owners, and were often corrected on the later models. Both by FFR themselves making improvements and corrections, but also by the builders. The builder forum of the day, FFCobra, (which later became FFCars), was an excellent means of learning of modifications to build a better car.

So the later a car was built, the better the chances it has been improved over the earlier cars, either by the factory, or the builder, but as mentioned, it does not necessarily mean it was built better.

[mrmustang]

Issues with the early models were discovered by builders/owners, and were often corrected on the later models. Both by FFR themselves making improvements and corrections, but also by the builders. The builder forum of the day, FFCobra, (which later became FFCars), was an excellent means of learning of modifications to build a better car.

So the later a car was built, the better the chances it has been improved over the earlier cars, either by the factory, or the builder, but as mentioned, it does not necessarily mean it was built better.

The early days, the Cobra build site was cobraforum and clubcobra, Brent owns and still runs clubcobra, Mike and Val Senior owned Cobraforum, but allowed a certain person to alienate the members at large, before another cobra related web site owner swiped the members lists and created his own site. I'll not name names, nor get in to a lengthy discussion, but the way one site came to be, was not on the up and up, even if it generated many FFR sales or not.

I'll leave it at that.

Bill S.