GTM #534 Build Log

[ohmygosuness]

Welded on the surge tank bracket. A little embarrassed about my welding skills. But with a little clean up, I'd give it a solid 5/10.
I like the bracket. Fits perfect! Only trimmed the edges very slightly. Thanks again, Shane!
surge tank bracket1.jpg

surge tank bracket2.jpg

[beeman]

I've seen much worse welds. Besides, it's not structural so no worries about penetration, etc.
Are you using a flux core MIG?

[ohmygosuness]

I've seen much worse welds. Besides, it's not structural so no worries about penetration, etc.
Are you using a flux core MIG?

Thanks. I would definitely think twice about doing it myself if it was structural. Yes, it is a flux core MIG with 0.035" wire. I'm not too experienced with welding, so, I'm not sure if it's me or the welder but I get a lot of spatter...

[beeman]

Flux core gives some splatter, and is less forgiving to any impurities on the metal surface. I'd remove a little more of the mill scale with a flap disc so it's not so close to the weld, then wipe the surfaces with acetone before welding. Remember acetone is flammable so let it dry and keep the rag and container far away from where you are welding.

[ohmygosuness]

Flux core gives some splatter, and is less forgiving to any impurities on the metal surface. I'd remove a little more of the mill scale with a flap disc so it's not so close to the weld, then wipe the surfaces with acetone before welding. Remember acetone is flammable so let it dry and keep the rag and container far away from where you are welding.

Good advice. I definitely should have spent more time preparing the surface before welding.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Glad it worked out! Yeah, it's pretty tough to get nice looking welds from flux-core. Looks like it's not going anywhere!

[beeman]

Previously looked at the pics on my phone, thought it was mill scale, but it's powdercoat that is next to those welds. You really have to take all of that off, a good inch or more back from the weld, down to shiny metal. It's nasty stuff, it smokes, catches fire, toxic fumes, and will get into the weld pretty easy.

[crash]

Previously looked at the pics on my phone, thought it was mill scale, but it's powdercoat that is next to those welds. You really have to take all of that off, a good inch or more back from the weld, down to shiny metal. It's nasty stuff, it smokes, catches fire, toxic fumes, and will get into the weld pretty easy.

Also because of the heating process of powder coat the material can get down into the pores of the metal. It is for this reason that I DO NOT powder coat frames on a race car. I have found that no matter how much you clean the metal surface the PC can still contaminate the welds. Pont is, don't beat yourself up. Welding on previously powder coated metal usually has issues, at least for me, no matter how much I clean it.

[ohmygosuness]

Previously looked at the pics on my phone, thought it was mill scale, but it's powdercoat that is next to those welds. You really have to take all of that off, a good inch or more back from the weld, down to shiny metal. It's nasty stuff, it smokes, catches fire, toxic fumes, and will get into the weld pretty easy.

You're right about it catching on fire! Good thing I always have a fire extinguisher nearby.

[ohmygosuness]

Been fighting the donor to reuse some parts. Cut a hole on the side of the vette tunnel to pull the parking brake out. The FF manual didn't mention where to mount this bracket. What's a good location to mount it? Do the cables need to be adjusted or is it good to go from the donor?
Attachment 192502

[Shoeless]

For some reason your pic attachment isn't coming through. There should be a bracket or place on the passenger side of the tunnel to mount the e-brake, that should be in the manual.

As for cables, I had a whole new set made by California Push Pull so I can't comment on the donor ones, let along C6 donor cables. You may find it easier to just measure where you want them and have new ones made. They came out perfectly for me. I made one small single cable (maybe 8-9") that went from the handle to the distro bock, then measured the left and right cables where I wanted them to run under the motor and back to the brakes.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

The donor brake cables are really too short to use as-is. The only way I've found to use them are to route the cables and that "splitter box" underneath the oil pan on the engine....which means that the first speed bump you roll over, will probably tear them off since they will be the lowest part of the car. That's why I created the e-brake kits on my website. The combination of brackets and "extender links" lengthen the stock cables enough to be usable and mounts them up out of the way instead of under the oil pan.

https://vraptorspeedworks.com/e-brake-bracket-kit/

https://vraptorspeedworks.com/emerge...twing-oil-pan/

https://vraptorspeedworks.com/emerge...crate-oil-pan/

As Shoeless mentioned, the other option is to order new custom cables. I've also done this in the past (before I developed my own solution).

[Shoeless]

Shane definitely has elegant options available based on the configuration.

[ohmygosuness]

Not sure why the pic didn't show. It's the bracket that connects the 1 wire to 2. Shane's part is very appealing, indeed.
e brake bracket.jpg

[Shoeless]

That looks to be exactly the same as the C5.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Hmm....pretty sure I've been here before. If memory serves, the "splitter" link that is swaged to the end of the single cable on the C6 is different than the C5 and the swaged ends of the 2 brake cables that interface with that are a bit different? The cables come in from the sides of that link instead of both on one side like the C5? For my kit to work, I think I just ended up putting the "extender links" of my kit in a vice and twisting the ends 90 degrees to make them fit into the C6 link?

[ohmygosuness]

Hmm....pretty sure I've been here before. If memory serves, the "splitter" link that is swaged to the end of the single cable on the C6 is different than the C5 and the swaged ends of the 2 brake cables that interface with that are a bit different? The cables come in from the sides of that link instead of both on one side like the C5? For my kit to work, I think I just ended up putting the "extender links" of my kit in a vice and twisting the ends 90 degrees to make them fit into the C6 link?

Yes, the 2 cables comes in from the sides of that small tab to connect to the 1 cable.
Last night, I roughly put everything in place where they generally should be. The linking bracket ended up hanging around the side of the engine between the starter and the motor mount. It does seem like the wire going to the driver side rear wheel is a bit short. I wonder if I just drill a couple holes in the current linking bracket and mount it on the side of the engine, will that be enough? Although, I am a little concerned with the current length of the cables. I'll take some pics when I get home.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

In my experience, if you try to stick with the donor "splitter box".....if you use the longest brake cable on the RH side of the car (assuming you're thinking of mounting the splitter box to the RH side of the engine), you can make that work, but then the LH cable is way too short and is kinked over hard at the wheel hub. If you try to use the long cable for the LH side, it's still kinked over at the hub, but not stretched tight.

[ohmygosuness]

This is the location of that splitter box right now. It's currently facing down, just hanging by the starter.
ebrake4.jpg

I mounted the lever slightly lower than recommended so the cable can reach slightly further back. The one solo mounting hole (on the bottom of the lever) did not fit anyway. In the end, I'll still have to make modifications to the stock mounting points.
ebrake1.jpg

Shane, you were right about the cable going the opposite side of the engine being a bit short. With the lever mounted slightly lower, the kink is much less. Fun fact, apparently both LH/RH cables from the C6 donor are the same length.
ebrake2.jpg


Here is a top view.
ebrake3.jpg

[Ajzride]

Another way to skin the cat of e-brake is to go electric. Quite a few cars these days have them so you can find electric calipers on eBay or in a junk yard. Pololu makes a shield for Arduino that controls them. I put a Tesla e-brake on my mustang and VW on my 818. Eliminates all the cables and the handle. You can even interface the Arduino to the ECU to pick up engine speed so you can can control how fast the electric brake locks up allowing it to still function as an eBrake and not just a parking brake.

[ohmygosuness]

Another way to skin the cat of e-brake is to go electric. Quite a few cars these days have them so you can find electric calipers on eBay or in a junk yard. Pololu makes a shield for Arduino that controls them. I put a Tesla e-brake on my mustang and VW on my 818. Eliminates all the cables and the handle. You can even interface the Arduino to the ECU to pick up engine speed so you can can control how fast the electric brake locks up allowing it to still function as an eBrake and not just a parking brake.

That's an interesting idea! I definitely thought about incorporating some gadgets in the build with Arduino, just don't know where yet. It would definitely be a fun project.


Will there be any reliability issues, though? And I hear it can be quite costly to repair if something breaks.
I also like the feel of manual brake. Maybe even use it in drifting

[Ajzride]

That's an interesting idea! I definitely thought about incorporating some gadgets in the build with Arduino, just don't know where yet. It would definitely be a fun project.


Will there be any reliability issues, though? And I hear it can be quite costly to repair if something breaks.
I also like the feel of manual brake. Maybe even use it in drifting

Obviously neither a 65 mustang or FFR 818 are daily drivers, but I've had never had any issues with them locking and unlocking when I hit the switch going on 5 years now.

[beeman]

I didn't care for the struggle to make the Corvette E-brakes work either

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post342963

[ohmygosuness]

I didn't care for the struggle to make the Corvette E-brakes work either

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post342963

Nice! That e brake lever looks a lot cleaner than the Corvette's.
I wish I have my trans delivered already, so I have an idea what that area looks like.
Where do you have the splitter bracket mounted?

[beeman]

Nice! That e brake lever looks a lot cleaner than the Corvette's.
I wish I have my trans delivered already, so I have an idea what that area looks like.
Where do you have the splitter bracket mounted?

It's in the tunnel right where it comes off the E-brake, splitter is part of the kit.

[ohmygosuness]

So, I've been reading the section in the manual where it talks about getting into wiring. It said to "prepare donor harness." Now, am I reusing the harness from the donor for both the engine and the dash or just the engine?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

There's a whole section at the end of the donor tear down section of the manual that goes into how to prep the donor parts and wiring harnesses. If you're using the donor engine and harness and ECU, then you'll need to follow the manual on how to hook all of that stuff up. If you were using a crate engine and crate harness/ecu, then pretty much everything changes and you won't be able to follow the GTM manual for much of the wiring besides the lights (headlights/tail/turn/brake, etc) and gauges. The majority of the rest of the wiring is going to be determined by the crate engine harness.

[ohmygosuness]

There's a whole section at the end of the donor tear down section of the manual that goes into how to prep the donor parts and wiring harnesses. If you're using the donor engine and harness and ECU, then you'll need to follow the manual on how to hook all of that stuff up. If you were using a crate engine and crate harness/ecu, then pretty much everything changes and you won't be able to follow the GTM manual for much of the wiring besides the lights (headlights/tail/turn/brake, etc) and gauges. The majority of the rest of the wiring is going to be determined by the crate engine harness.

Yea, I'll be using the donor harness, engine, and ECU. Probably won't be getting anything aftermarket unless absolutely necessary.

[Ajzride]

I elected to cut my OEM harness down to just ECU and engine, and buy a dedicated harness for the chassis (lights, fans, windows, radio, etc). Kind of depends on what your plans for the car are. If you want a dedicated chassis harness I love my Coach-1.

https://coachcontrols.com/index.php?...roducts_id=123

[ohmygosuness]

I elected to cut my OEM harness down to just ECU and engine, and buy a dedicated harness for the chassis (lights, fans, windows, radio, etc). Kind of depends on what your plans for the car are. If you want a dedicated chassis harness I love my Coach-1.

https://coachcontrols.com/index.php?...roducts_id=123

I suppose my question is, what's the advantage of going for an after market harness as opposed to just reuse the harness from donor? Other than to include buttons/gadgets outside of the stock donor.

[Ajzride]

Way less wiring, much simpler to troubleshoot, more flexibility in how you route and place things.

[beeman]

Do you have the wiring diagram for your Corvette harness, and do you understand it?

C6, right ? You basically need to get rid of all non-essentials. You can also add in new circuits after the fact . You should be able to run your gauges off your C6 harness.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I suppose my question is, what's the advantage of going for an after market harness as opposed to just reuse the harness from donor? Other than to include buttons/gadgets outside of the stock donor.

I would say the main advantage is complexity. On the donor harness....especially since you're using a C6 harness(?).....I'm guessing that the GTM manual might not be of much use, and if you're not good with reading wiring diagrams, it might be quite a challenge figuring out what needs to be hooked up and what to hook it up to. Some of the wires out of the engine harness run to the ECU, some to the main fuse block, some to some misc connectors that connected up to the transmission or fuel tanks or emissions stuff, etc.

On a crate engine harness or custom harness, generally, you're just going to have a dozen or so wires that come off the engine harness to hook up and they will be labeled as to what they need to hook to.....ignition power, battery +, fuel pump, cooling fans, tach, etc, etc. As Ajzride said, much easier to hook up and diagnose.