Carbon Fiber Body

[Xusia]

Dave, as I recall, FFR offered a carbon fiber body when the Roadster first came out. Any chance the 818 will have a carbon fiber body option? (hint, hint)

[carbon fiber]

wow, you just doubled the price of the kit!

[Draco-REX]

wow, you just doubled the price of the kit!

For those who want the ultimate lightweight, it might be a price worth paying.

[riptide motorsport]

Zero chance.

[Xusia]

When they made it for the Roadster, I'm pretty sure it didn't double the price of the kit.

[carbon fiber]

never saw the roadster body. to make an entire body in cf with epoxy resins(not vinyl ester, which should never be used with cf)) and good visual quality is incredibly expensive. it would need to be vacuum infused or autoclaved with pre-peg, the latter would include an oven large enough to bake the entire body. the labor would be high because of the skill and time involved. even if they offered it unfinished (no final sanding and uv clearcoat) like they do cf parts now, it would be costly and the 818 is supposed to be an affordable kit. no offense to ff here, they are offering tons of value with their kits.

[Draco-REX]

never saw the roadster body. to make an entire body in cf with epoxy resins(not vinyl ester, which should never be used with cf)) and good visual quality is incredibly expensive. it would need to be vacuum infused or autoclaved with pre-peg, the latter would include an oven large enough to bake the entire body. the labor would be high because of the skill and time involved. even if they offered it unfinished (no final sanding and uv clearcoat) like they do cf parts now, it would be costly and the 818 is supposed to be an affordable kit. no offense to ff here, they are offering tons of value with their kits.

FFR is planning to go with an Thermoform process with the 818. This means lots of smaller panels; 12-16 per Dave. That would be easier than trying to do a whole body like the Roadster's. Also, noone has said that the CF body has to be the primary body. It can certainly be an *option*. The 818 can still hit its price goal and offer optional extras on top of that. Personally, I think the primary value of a Kit car is its inherent flexibility. Offering the customer tons of choices is a good thing in my view. And if someone wants to pay the extra $5K or so for a CF body, let them.

[carbon fiber]

i don't see producing the kind of stuff i'm talking about for 5k. good luck.

[Draco-REX]

*shrug* Doesn't matter what it costs if someone's willing to pay it. Dave has said that forms will be relatively easy to create. If someone is willing to pay for it, I don't see why FFR can't make it. This really would have zero bearing on the price of the base kit.

[carbon fiber]

don't take me wrong, it would be cool. i meant it as an option that would have no bearing on the base price. not trying to be a downer as much as to be realistic. what does dave think?

[dclin]

Given that the body pieces will not be structural, I don't think the benefits would be as great. No doubt there would be some weight loss, but most of the weight is going to be in the frame itself anyways. Composites real claim to fame is offering a terrific strength to weight ratio. If the CF parts are not structural, the cost benefit probably won't be there. I seriously doubt that thermoformed plastic parts are going to be significantly heavier than a CF piece. The CF piece will undoubtedly be stronger, but it matters less in this application.

Also, while making bucks for a carbon version of the body parts is not exactly a difficult process, it's likely tedious and time consuming to get it to produce a high level of fit and finish for the final parts. It still is, pretty much, a totally, by-hand process after all, and I think F5 is going to have their hands full simply getting the basic kit out the door in the time frame we want anyways, w/o getting bogged down in side projects.

Having said that, there will always be people who don't mind spending the cash, and maybe F5 can visit this option after the kits start rolling off the line.

[Idesign]

Based on pricing out similar projects it would be between 10 to 15 thousand per body taking into account tooling, part development, raw materials and labor. That is based on 1000 units. This also is cost not including profit margins. Basically doubles the cost of the project to drop 10lbs.

[Twinspool]

Composites real claim to fame is offering a terrific strength to weight ratio. If the CF parts are not structural, the cost benefit probably won't be there.

QFT. Read that over and over until it sinks in.

[dclin]

QFT. Read that over and over until it sinks in.

Why don't you tell me what you think it means?

[Twinspool]

Why don't you tell me what you think it means?

QFT = Quoted For Truth. You're precisely correct about using composites for non-stressed parts.

[dclin]

QFT = Quoted For Truth. You're precisely correct about using composites for non-stressed parts.

LOL, sorry, I read your post the wrong way. Thought QFT stood for something else. I need to brush up on these darn interweb acronyms. :P

[kach22i]

FFR is planning to go with an Thermoform process with the 818.

That is for non-body parts such as vents and wheel liners.

With the steel tube frame (chassis) it would make more sense to go with a fabric body before a CF one.

You do not have to oven bake (autoclave) CF parts. You can autoclave them for more strength. Much of the decorative CF you see on cars have never been baked.