A friend acquired an ERA that had this top on it that he didn’t want. It was a great deal, so I think I’ll take a run at making it work. I’m planning on removing the big Gurney bump. I’ll have to come up with mounting, the bolt thru the the soft top ferrule looked a bit iffy. I got it home and just set it on my mk4. It’s pretty close.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
If the ferrel attachment at the body is solid you will be fine. My APE top used a classic Corvette attachment system at nearly the same location. https://www.ecklerscorvette.com/1963...-114799-1.html
The second from the top piece was installed in a hole in the fiberglass and held there by the lower nut and washer. I didn't use the supplied bolt though. I found that an old air cleaner bolt was much easier to use. The APE top was also fastened at the windshield. But a couple of times I found those fastners had worked lose. They were still there but not functioning. There was no problem though because the side fastners held the top fine by themselves. The only shortcoming I see is if you have side windows. That fastner doesn't seem to have a very good lateral location function. If the sides of the top can move in and out it will be harder to get windows to stay sealed. Keep us posted on your progress please.
FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.
Thanks Jeff, I’m not sure who made this top. The guy I got it from knows those who run ERA and they don’t make a top. I really wish FFR would do one up. I got into this one real cheap, so I’ll give it a shot, sorta make it up as I go.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
Thanks Craig. I’m going to give it a run. It looks like that despite the offset bracket they were using, the top is a bit narrow at the rear door openings, I guessing that those bolts pulled in as well as down. I’ll look at the corvette stuff. I have this crazy idea of trying to use the mounts that I have in place for my Rod Top, not sure if that will go, we’ll see.
Last edited by John4337; 04-07-2023 at 01:39 PM.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
Here are some more photos with measurements. My thought is to add material to the lower edge of the top to come to the contour of the body. As the top has a detail mounded into it, I’m not certain where make the cut, above the detail, or below. These are taken starting behind the passenger door, around the back, and to the drivers door.
Also, looking for thoughts on the process of removing the windows. Warm the gaskets with a hair dryer or something?
Thanks,
John
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
I've pulled the windows and weatherstrip off. My goal is to mount the top in such a way that I can go back to my soft top, which means using the soft top points. I cobbled together this as a proof of concept but it looks like it will work. A buddy who is a machinist came over and took some measurements to make some nice brackets to replace these. Next step is to cut off the lower part of the top and place spacers to get it to line up with the body. I'm shooting for about a 3/8 inch gap to allow room for weatherstrip. Thoughts or ideas are always welcome.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
I think I would make the cut as low as you can so all you take off is the flange portion. I think that, if you take any of the vertical with your cut piece, the piece will be too stiff to bend to fill in those low spots. Another option would be to just ad filler to the bottom of the existing flange. Others who do more fiberglass work may have other options but I have used West System epoxy w/ one of their powdered additives. https://www.westsystem.com/filler-selection-guide/
You just stir it into the epoxy. Some of the powders make it real easy to sand once hardened.
FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.
Well, I took a deep breath and took a cut off wheel to it. The top had a ridge detail around the beltline, I elected to cut that out because I really didn't think I could get it to look right after adding in the material to fill the gap, and it moves the bottom of the top forward a bit to give me more clearance for the trunk lid to open.
The contour looks pretty good on the drivers side, the passenger side not so much.
Craig, thanks for the tip on the glass product, I'll take a look.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
Are you planning on side windows? Reason I ask is the APE windows are made from 1/4 in lexan which only flexes so much. That means that, looking from a rear view, the angle from vertical of the top needs to be pretty close the angle of the windshield post (from a rear view). That might affect how you attach the top to the body.
FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.
Are you planning on side windows? Reason I ask is the APE windows are made from 1/4 in lexan which only flexes so much. That means that, looking from a rear view, the angle from vertical of the top needs to be pretty close the angle of the windshield post (from a rear view). That might affect how you attach the top to the body.
It already has quarter windows, which I was happy to see when I found it, saved me some work. My proposeed anchor point will come off that screw you see between the door and quarter window.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
Here's a progress report. I worked yesterday fine tuning the alignment at the bottom, think I have it pretty close. Today, I cleaned it and started the glass work. Somewhat challenging because I was often working on a near vertical surface, but I got it. I'll let it set up good and assess where I need to add more.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
Well, I've pulled the frankenstraps off, done an initial rough sanding and set it back on the car with the gasket that was on it. Give me your thoughts. For the hardtop users out there, what type/size gaskets are you using and what sort of gap between the top and the body? This one looks to be standing a bit proud. Ignore the gasket in the next to last photo, I have to fiberglass inside the lip thats not allowing the gasket to settle correctly and its rolled to the inside of the top.
Thanks.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
You're doing good! It's a whole lot like what I had to do to make an APE top fit a Mk4. I'd run a couple of layers of glass on the exterior now then knock down the high spots and start with the filler.
You're doing good! It's a whole lot like what I had to do to make an APE top fit a Mk4. I'd run a couple of layers of glass on the exterior now then knock down the high spots and start with the filler.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff,
What are your thoughts on the gap with the gasket in place? OK, or too much?
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
Gap looks acceptable to me. Is it sealing in that valley inside of the fender? I did the drop butt mod on my MkII which gave it closer to a MkIV shape at the back of the top. Top had already been painted and I just couldn't bring myself to mess w/ it knowing it would need a repaint. So my gap was larger than yours. IMG_20150315_152208810.jpg
I decreased to about 3/8" at the door. Since my top was always on the car I got used to it.
FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.
John,
On the car with the APE top I used a fairly soft "D" seal that was 5/8" relaxed but compressed to around 3/8" with the weight of the top and was pretty consistent all the way around. This pic kind of shows the resulting gap.
That said, it looks like you'll end up with more than that but I think it'll be OK. If you want to try to close the gap a little more take a look at other weatherstrip/seal options.
Gap looks acceptable to me. Is it sealing in that valley inside of the fender? I did the drop butt mod on my MkII which gave it closer to a MkIV shape at the back of the top. Top had already been painted and I just couldn't bring myself to mess w/ it knowing it would need a repaint. So my gap was larger than yours. IMG_20150315_152208810.jpg
I decreased to about 3/8" at the door. Since my top was always on the car I got used to it.
The corner on the DS had a stray glob of fiberglass on the lip that didn’t let the seal go on correctly. Also the lip on the top is wider than the depth of the seal channel so it looks recessed under the top, I’m thinking of trimming the lip to fit it better. Also that seal is pretty thick relaxed, maybe I need something a bit thinner.
Last edited by John4337; 04-25-2023 at 12:42 PM.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
John,
On the car with the APE top I used a fairly soft "D" seal that was 5/8" relaxed but compressed to around 3/8" with the weight of the top and was pretty consistent all the way around. This pic kind of shows the resulting gap.
That said, it looks like you'll end up with more than that but I think it'll be OK. If you want to try to close the gap a little more take a look at other weatherstrip/seal options.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff, I thing I may have to go a bit thinner on the seal and get it closer to the edge of the top.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
-John, if you have the Rod Top, why bother with a hard top? Are there significant downsides with the soft top?
-John and Jeff; I see both cars you illustrate have under car exhaust. Are the rear pipes through the transverse frame tube, or do they snake around the rear axles inside the rear wheel wells?
-Jeff; I can see what look like AC vents in the dash. Can you share any details on how the AC install was done?
Gathering ideas for my Mk 4 first build. Ed Klein Long Island.
Thanks to both.
The undercar exhaust does not go through any frame members. Under the seats, then inwards and under the lower A arm for 2015 IRS. it is below the frame in places.......
The AC is from Richard Oben - North Race Cars. Works OK with a top on. Heat also. I have a gen 1 coyote. I think it has interference issues w the gen 3.
I do love the undercar exhaust. Definitely a different look, and lots quieter. Plus you don't smell like the exhaust when you get out.
-John, if you have the Rod Top, why bother with a hard top? Are there significant downsides with the soft top?
-John and Jeff; I see both cars you illustrate have under car exhaust. Are the rear pipes through the transverse frame tube, or do they snake around the rear axles inside the rear wheel wells?
-Jeff; I can see what look like AC vents in the dash. Can you share any details on how the AC install was done?
Gathering ideas for my Mk 4 first build. Ed Klein Long Island.
Thanks to both.
Ed,
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Rod Top, it's a great piece and has served us well for a long time now. The only downside is the zip in side curtains. They work great, but are a few things that I don't like. One, they make it somewhat tedious to get in and out of the car, and two, there is no way to open them for ventilation on the move unless you pull over and stop. Also, if you don't have them in and need them, you have to pull over and put them in. As to why the hard top? We find that we have the top on more and more as sitting in the sun becomes less appealing and I like the idea of a top that I can put a little insulation in and affix door mounted windows with sliding sections. Lastly because I think its a cool project. I stumbled upon this top that is pretty close in appearance to the original Berry tops at a great price so I'm in.
As for the exhaust, mine runs under the footboxes, mufflers under the seats and under the IRS lower control arms andour the back. I built it all myself with Ford racing shorty headers, SpinTech mufflers and a generic pipe kit from Summit. I made the hangers as I needed them. If you're interested, PM your email and I'll send some photos. We really like it. A bit quieter and no snake bites.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
John and Greg: Thank you both for the quick replies.
Greg, seems your exhaust is similar to John's. Much simpler than a through-the-frame build.
Someone else mentioned North Race Cars to me for the AC, so I take it they do a nice job. I recently bought a second home in Central Florida and if I use the car down here it seems AC would be mandatory. Or am I mistaken? You Southern guys would be better judges at how driving a hot rod down south is. If it is not a game changer I am tempted to do without. Simple is much better for these cars (and for my aging brain).
John I found your albums and saw the photos of the exhaust build. Looks simple, neat and not too hard. I really like it.
I hear your gripes about the windows. As an aside, I have been in touch with Rick Young (CRZN427) regarding custom plexiglass side and rear windows. Boy does he do nice work, based on his photos and history of top fabrication. Real professional stuff. I am thinking of a soft top (Rod Tops) AND plexiglass side windows which could be used with or without the top, if done right. I recall CraigS mentioning in an email to me how his rear window is easily removable for better circulation. I like that idea.
I love how both of your cars look. Clean profile and GREEN PAINT. I am a sucker for green myself.
if you do the Rod Top, order the quarter windows and the zip down rear window. Mine's an early one and they weren't available then. I was in S. Florida when I built my car and I also have Rich Oben's AC/heat and I don't regret it a bit, but don't expect daily driver performance. The system works well, but the car isn't sealed and there's a lot of hot air intrusion. With the top on and the windows in, it does take the edge off. It really shines should you get caught in the rain, keeps the car from becoming a sauna.
Last edited by John4337; 04-25-2023 at 04:27 PM.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
For anyone w/ a hard top and plexiglass rear window here is how I did mine. BTW it is a good idea to do your first one in plexiglass and once it cracks order lexan. IMG_20140815_172122_795.jpg
There were 4 of these across the bottom. It is hard to see but this tab is mounted to the fiberglass w/ a 10-32 SS machine screw w/ a nice looking had on the outside of the fiberglass and a fender washer and nylock nut inside. So the screw is locked to the fiberglass. Then another nut, washer, the 1/16 sheet metal tab (about 5/8x1.5" and wrapped in sticky back felt), washer, and nylock nut. The two nuts on either side of the tab allow you to adjust how close the lexan is to the fiberglass. The tab has a slight bend in it so the top end is further from the fiberglass. This lets you slide the window down into the lower tabs and compress the D seal at the same time. Then you push the top of the window toward the fiberglass. There are 4 more tabs up there much the same as the lower tabs except that the tab is allowed to swivel on the bolt. IMG_20121211_092713_996.jpg
You can see in this pic where the black bed liner that was on the inside of the APE top has pulled away. I originally had the D seal stuck to the top but it kept pulling away. Finally I stuck it to the lexan and it stayed just fine. It takes some fiddling to get the seal to compress just right all the way across but I found it to be quite waterproof after I found to put seal joint at the top.
FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.
I glassed the bigger gaps on the outside and did a bit of filler and a rough sand and set the top back on to see where I'm at. Looks like I'll have to rework the spot under the back window. Seems to be sitting high, but its closer.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
The longer I looked at it, I knew I wouldn't be happy with that gap below the back window, so I'm having another go at it.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
I think I’m sneaking up on it…the real fiberglass guys are probably in therapy by now.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
Small steps today, worked on filling the gap but it’s very cool here today and resin is taking a bit to set, so I worked on the catches for the front. I found a 6-32 tap fit the existing holes in the sidebars, so I gently tapped them, shortened some SS pan heads and mounted the hooks. At least its progress.
On a side note, how do you rotate the images? - Corrected. Thanks Craig
Last edited by John4337; 05-04-2023 at 09:02 AM.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
Thought it was time for an update. I finally figured out why it looked a bit off from the back. The window opening wasn’t parallel to the bottom of the top, so a bit of glass work and cutting got it pretty close. I alost worked on the lower edge under the window and got the radius looking better Also had to make an adjustment to the lower flange on the PS, but it’s all progress.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
More progress today. My machinist buddy delivered the pieces that will attach the top to the car using my existing Rod Top anchor points just behind the doors. All that’s left is to radius and polish them. I’ll forgo mounting them to the top until after I settle on the gasket choice. The top had a press on one that attached to the lip at the base of the top, but it’s pretty thick rubber and all my butchery of the top has left the lip inconsistent. I’m leaning toward some kind of bulb seal glued to the lip. Hardtop guys please chime in with any thoughts.
I then started on the removal of the monster hump.
It wanted to sag a bit in the middle, so I screwed a section of angle to keep it in place.
I thought using the cut out prices to fill in, but I’ve abandoned that and will just glass it in. I screwed some wire over the opening to copy the curve, hope this works, we’ll see.
FFR #7388 - Mk 4 Complete Kit w/ IRS, Ordered 10/21/10, Delivered 12/8/10. 302 with FiTech and Under Car Exhaust, Heat & A/C, Rod Top. Hard top and shop built side curtains added 2023.
Thanks for posting this thread. I can't wait to see the final project - but don't rush it on my account!!
I'm curious about one thing. How difficult is it to get in and out of a roadster with the top on? I'm 6 ft tall, and wear size 12 shoes. It's hard enough getting in without a roof. Will the roof make it almost impossible?
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Originally Posted by CraigS
