Ethyl Goes Boyd

[wrp]

Pulled the trigger on e Boyd FFR Tank. It arrived last week. Really disappointing we cannot actually talk to the builder once we’ve ordered and paid the money prior to the build beginning. I do sympathize with their having to spend a lot of time on the phone. Without a lot of input I just ordered the non EFI tank figuring the Holly Sniper was running fine on the Holly external pump I had ordered. I kind of wish I had gone with the internal. Holly sells a unit to replace the non EFI pickup already installed. Could have gotten by cheaper had I discussed it with them. Question for you guys, I am running a 383 Stroker with somewhere in the neighborhood of 450 BHP. Will the 340 LP be able to handle that or should I go to the A1000? Also, have any of you moved the inlet tube from the extreme left of the tank towards the middle to get a straighter shot onto the tank? If so did you put an extension into the tank that prevented the fuel from splashing and foaming when you filled it? Same for the return. Is there a return tube that extends to the bottom of the tank?

[sread]

The 340 lph pump is plenty big for that motor. I actually dropped mine down to a 255 running an LS1 w/ heads cam. Once you go too much over the needed capacity you just end up heating and aerating the fuel because it is constantly bypassing and circulating thru the rails and fuel lines.
I have the Boyd tank and it is still a pain to fill but I moved my filler to the outside of the body and there is a couple of tight turns to enter the tank. I am also convinced now that half the problem is the vent is not big enough and is compounded by adding a charcoal canister to block the fumes. If I were to do it over, I would try to enlarge the vent and make it flow as much as possible.

[JimLev]

I bought the FFR EFI kit which comes with the pump, don’t remember the flow but it’s plenty enough for my 430HP LS3.
I’ll see if I have that info.
Do either of you know how many gallons the original FFR tank will hold?

[wrp]

Mine holds about 12

[JimLev]

Thanks.
The pump I got from FFR is a Walbro GSS340, good for 500HP.
https://walbrofuelpumps.com/255lph-w...pump.html.html

[Mastertech5]

My external pump from FFR says 400 GPH on the box which is 100 GPH. Breeze Automotive sells a larger vent set up. It uses the same size grommet as the original FFR one but utilizes a larger hose. It's vapor not liquid so it shouldn't make that much of a difference. I bought one because the vent nipple on my GM canister is 1/2".

[Brave Salmon]

I had the Boyd non-efi tank on my gen1. When I went with the Sniper, I pulled that big access panel off the top, drilled out the center with a hole saw and installed a tanks, inc. pump setup from Summit. It worked like a champ and I never had fuel pump problems. I burned through three rail mounted external pumps on the old carb setup and did not want issues with the sniper.

[narly1]

Thanks.
The pump I got from FFR is a Walbro GSS340, good for 500HP.

I will preface my comment by reminding y'all that I'm up in Canada.

That and the fact that Murphy's law equally applies to fuel pumps, LOL.

My thinking is that if you're going to be doing any amount of long distance driving that an external (thus quickly and easily replaceable) and readily available (thus Walbro instead of some "performance" branded) "universal" pump is the way to go.

To that end I'm going to mount the pump and pre-filter on a "pallet" that I can easily get to if something goes south. I'll then in turn mount the pallet on rubber mounts to help keep the vibration and pump noise down.

Earl

[RoadRacer]

Fun thread, tanks have always been a thing!

I’m surprised you went with Boyd though.. the FFR revision on the tank a few years back works great for me - super fast fill. It’s inside the trunk,granted. And I fill up every few days

Agree with Earl about easy access, especially when you drive yours a lot Bill.

And btw I’ve been pretty low in my tank many times - even run out once - but I’ve never got more than 10.5g in mine. If I did that over again I’d for sure plumb in an auxiliary tank and trade some trunk space.. an idea while you’re there?

[wrp]

Actually had an application where an Aeromotive 1000 was inadequate. For that matter the Aeromotive Eliminator couldn’t keep up. We added a boost referenced electronic controller and a boost referenced boost a pump. 2000 CC ID injectors were maxing out art WOT. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 BHP


Fuel-67.jpgFuel 048-640.JPGFuel-58.jpg

[FF33rod]

Used the non EFI Boyd tank as is with Sniper and external pump, no issues.... engine is a 347 @ 450hp

[wrp]

Anyone use the new Holley Easy Level LIDAR Sending unit?

[wrp]

Putting the Boyd Tank in next week. After 8 years of dealing with the Gen I OEM tank I've decided to move forward. I would very much appreciate a pointer to the Boyd tank installation, especially the filler neck connection to the tank. Here is the request.

1. Did you use the internal or external pump?
2. Will the internal pump work with a carbureted engine that has been converted to Holley sniper?
3. Has anyone attempted to use the Holley LIDAR fuel level sender?
4. Are the Boyd vents adequate?
5. Any problems sloshing back through the vent with the Boyd (I got the rollover vent option)?
6. Where did you route the vent tube (pictures)?
7. Anyone go in from the rear to take the old tank out and install the Boyd (pictures)?
8. I have a converter to convert the Boyd sending unit signal to work with the Auto Meter Fuel Gauge, Where did you mount the unit (pictures)?
9. I would be grateful for any help/advice
7.

[sread]

I'll give you my thoughts and experience on it.
As far as internal vs external, its a roll of the dice. There is a reason every OEM goes with internal, which is noise and reliability. If the hot rod wasn't such a pain in *** to swap out a failed internal pump I think it would be a no brainer, but it is, so it isn't. I think with an external pump it is really a matter of when, not if it will fail. If it is easily accessible and you have a spare then it is mostly just an inconvenience. Don't know if it is something you could do on the side of the road but it is possible. As far as the noise, you will have to make your own judgement if that is an issue for you.
I have the Boyd tank and am running a Walbro internal pump. I swapped out the Aeromotive because I heard too many instances of early failures and the Aeromotive sounded like it was crushing rocks after and hour or two of run time. The Walbro in my fox body lasted over 20 years and 200 k miles. You just gotta pay your pesos and make your choices.
As far as the vent system on the Boyd, it seems fine for me. I just ran a hose down under the car but did end up making a charcoal canister. Without it the gas fumes were very noticeable. I just made a canister out of pvc pipe about 4 inches long and filled it with granulated charcoal. Put a cap on one end and drilled some holes in it. Works great.
The place where I get fuel slosh is back out the filler neck. I mounted my filler external cuz I didn't want to have to open the trunk and be spilling fuel in side of it. The problem is there is very limited options to mount an external filler and the hose connection makes 2 sharp bends with out much vertical drop. The result is it is still a pain in the butt to fill it and takes a while. Also , the filler cap I used looks great, but leaks. My car doesn't have a fancy paint job so it is not really a big deal, but it would definitely be a problem with a nice paint job. Just keep all that in mind when planning how to install your filler. I actually came up with a fix for mine using a bath tub stopper, believe it or not. Its crude but eliminates 90% of it.
I think I mentioned it before, but spend the time to get the pump positioned at the bottom of the tank (if you go internal) and also verify/adjust the fuel level sender before closing it all up if you want an accurate fuel gauge.
Can't help you on the best way to go about getting the old tank out and the new one in. It probably ain't gonna be fun. Seems like I have read you will probably have to either cut one of the frame tubes or cut part of the tank (scary!)
Good luck and keep plenty of beer handy!

[wrp]

Thanks for the input. One of the issues I have been struggling with is fuel sloshing out of the vent tube. We added a larger vent, but doing so with the tank installed was much more than a pain in the ***. With the larger vent, filling was not much of an issue. However, don't cringe, we mounted the vent high on the sloped side of the tank so that when turning left the fuel sloshes straight into the tube. The high profile of the tank makes it very hard to get the vent above the filler neck which seems to be the recommended location. Your points are well taken though and enlarging the vent is no doubt the one of the keys to being successful. Before installing the tank, I am concerned the location of the filler neck is also an issue. The real issue I had with the original setup was that frequent use would exert downward pressure on the filler next connection, and eventually the neck itself would wind up sloping uphill or having low spots in the travel from t he neck to the tank. Current location of the filler on the Boyd causes me concern.

I did discover that the LiDaR sends a pulse signal so I would be unable to retain my current Auto Meter Platinum gauges. Decided to stick with them gauges and the boyd provided 0-90 sender. I have the Auto Meter adapter that should make this work

[sread]

Yeah, the problem is the Boyd tank has the filler located to use the standard FFR filler cap location. If I had it to do over again I would order a custom filler option. Gonna be tough to change with a completed car. As far as the vent hose goes, I don't know how it compares to the FFR tank as mine came with the Boyd from the start but there is not much room to elevate it either because of the frame tube as well as the body. I don't have any pics but if I remember right I just routed mine towards the right rear corner over the back of the tank and then curved back towards the left side of the car in a slight slope. I haven't noticed any problem from it. It is also possible that the check ball in the roll over vent may help with the fuel slosh problem too.

[wrp]

Yeah, the problem is the Boyd tank has the filler located to use the standard FFR filler cap location. If I had it to do over again I would order a custom filler option. Gonna be tough to change with a completed car. As far as the vent hose goes, I don't know how it compares to the FFR tank as mine came with the Boyd from the start but there is not much room to elevate it either because of the frame tube as well as the body. I don't have any pics but if I remember right I just routed mine towards the right rear corner over the back of the tank and then curved back towards the left side of the car in a slight slope. I haven't noticed any problem from it. It is also possible that the check ball in the roll over vent may help with the fuel slosh problem too.

Where would you have put it?

[sread]

I would have it angled up at maybe 45 degrees to better accommodate an external filler cap location or even vertical to give a straight shot with a filler located directly above.

If you really wanted to pursue that option, I think the thing to do would be decide where you want to place the external filler, then figure out the the straightest shot to the tank filler spigot and modify it as needed. Really wouldn't be that difficult for a decent tig welder. Then just have to cut a new hole thru the body for a the new external filler cap. Just try to eliminate the sharp bends and the horizontal sections of the filler neck tubing.

[progmgr1]

FWIW, I bought a fuel filler with an OEM style door from Hagan (https://www.haganauto.com/category_s/370.htm)(may be available from Summit these days). It's mounted to the body with bonded on weld studs (McMaster-Carr) and connected to the tank with a generic filler hose from a local parts store. Note: this may not work for stock builds - my tank is mounted lower in the chassis than the FFR standard. The important thing is to make sure your filler hose only runs downhill.

Keith HR #894

[wrp]

I'd love to see what you did to lower the tank. I already have a motorcycle filler cut into the outside. Could be this is all moot, I just need to suck it up and do it. Next step if the Boyd does no better, fabricate my own 12-15 Gallon cell that would fit between the hinges, sit lower so I can get a vent above the filler inlet, and allow a straight in filler shot. What bugs me is venting. Just not sure what I am doing will fix the issues.


Fuel Filler Relocate-1.jpg

[progmgr1]

Be aware: my approach may only work with the 2015 IRS and forces some other changes to the car's design.

I'm building a customized version of the '33 for use as a daily driver / long range cruiser. I wanted to increase the trunk space and lower the CG, so I designed twin "saddlebag" type fuel tanks that sit below the trunk floor, between the IRS and cabin. I had Boyd Welding do the fabrication for me since my welding skills are rudimentary, at best. I'm traveling now, so these are the best photos I have available. The tanks are covered in blue painters' tape, mounted below the twin roll hoops (headrest supports) in this view from the cabin. The white square in the center is my battery box - mounted in the stock FFR position, but accessible from above. If I need to change the battery, I just pull back the carpet and remove the cover.

If you are interested in seeing the design drawings, more photos, or want a more detailed discussion, send me your email address in a PM.

HTH, Keith HR #894

2020-11-07 17.39.53.jpg 20201107_174054.jpg

[wrp]

Be aware: my approach may only work with the 2015 IRS and forces some other changes to the car's design.

I'm building a customized version of the '33 for use as a daily driver / long range cruiser. I wanted to increase the trunk space and lower the CG, so I designed twin "saddlebag" type fuel tanks that sit below the trunk floor, between the IRS and cabin. I had Boyd Welding do the fabrication for me since my welding skills are rudimentary, at best. I'm traveling now, so these are the best photos I have available. The tanks are covered in blue painters' tape, mounted below the twin roll hoops (headrest supports) in this view from the cabin. The white square in the center is my battery box - mounted in the stock FFR position, but accessible from above. If I need to change the battery, I just pull back the carpet and remove the cover.

If you are interested in seeing the design drawings, more photos, or want a more detailed discussion, send me your email address in a PM.

HTH, Keith HR #894

2020-11-07 17.39.53.jpg 20201107_174054.jpg

In my humble opinion this is the best solution I have seen. It eliminates the flexible filler tubes from developing low spots, allowing the filler tube to clear out of the way of the hinges and it gives you room to run the vent tube upwards to a position at least level with the filler tube. Bravo for you. Unfortunately Boyd doesn't seem to even want to talk about one off customs anymore. I would love to see more pictures of your mounting and plumbing.

[TxMike64]

Be aware: my approach may only work with the 2015 IRS and forces some other changes to the car's design.

I'm building a customized version of the '33 for use as a daily driver / long range cruiser. I wanted to increase the trunk space and lower the CG, so I designed twin "saddlebag" type fuel tanks that sit below the trunk floor, between the IRS and cabin. I had Boyd Welding do the fabrication for me since my welding skills are rudimentary, at best. I'm traveling now, so these are the best photos I have available. The tanks are covered in blue painters' tape, mounted below the twin roll hoops (headrest supports) in this view from the cabin. The white square in the center is my battery box - mounted in the stock FFR position, but accessible from above. If I need to change the battery, I just pull back the carpet and remove the cover.

If you are interested in seeing the design drawings, more photos, or want a more detailed discussion, send me your email address in a PM.

HTH, Keith HR #894

2020-11-07 17.39.53.jpg 20201107_174054.jpg

Keith, I forget if you are using an internal or external pump, and if external where you mounted it.
I still REALLY like this setup. But Boyd won't consider building it, even though they have the patterns.

[progmgr1]

Sorry guys - still out of town so no additional photos. However, I'll try to give some quick answers to your questions.

The plumbing is pretty straightforward - just a generic 90° bend fuel filler hose from Auto Zone. (I have the fuel filler door mounted high in the side of the body, not on top.) Since the side of the body is curved and tilted in slightly, the fuel filler tube is pointing down 10°-15° from horizontal. The fuel entry fitting on the tank is vertical, so the bend in the hose is straightened out a little - but this insures that the fuel always flows downhill.

I opted for the internal Aeromotive (sp?) fuel pump, same as what Boyd provided at the time with their FFR replacement tanks. This was back in 2017, and I hadn't seen all the Forum discussion about internal vs. external pumps. I would probably still opt for the internal pump today since I'm not doing a high performance version and the noise from an external pump is more of an issue for a DD.

I am surprised by Boyd Welding's disinterest in making more of these tanks. They seemed to enjoy doing special projects at the time, and custom work was one of their major advertising points. Also, I shared my plans with a few other builders back then and, IIRC, Boyd responded favorably to their inquiries. Of course, this was before Covid. Boyd may not have the same workforce and company priorities now as they did then. It's too bad - they were the only fabricator I could find who would even give me a bid, and their workmanship and response times were excellent.

HTH, Keith HR #894

[JimLev]

WRP/Sread, both of you have mentioned fuel come out of the fuel vent (roll over valve?).
I’ve never filled the tank past 3/4 but always smell gas when I go into the garage. I’ve got the FFR supplied charcoal canister and find that it’s soaked with gas.
Have you guys found a fix? I don’t think I can get my vent to be up any higher than it is now.

I’ve added long tubes to the 2 fresh air intake ports on the canister to extend them to the back off the car. They even have fuel in them.

[wrp]

WRP/Sread, both of you have mentioned fuel come out of the fuel vent (roll over valve?).
I’ve never filled the tank past 3/4 but always smell gas when I go into the garage. I’ve got the FFR supplied charcoal canister and find that it’s soaked with gas.
Have you guys found a fix? I don’t think I can get my vent to be up any higher than it is now.

I have no idea whether the Gen I tanks had baffles or not. The Boyd has two baffles. For me that is reason enough to make the switch. I am counting on that easing the problem.

[JimLev]

I have the Gen 1 chassis with the newer tank that has the fill cap in the trunk.
There are no baffles in it.
I just may ditch the charcoal canister and come up with something different….when I can figure out what to do.

[wrp]

1. Did you use the internal or external pump? I used an internal Aeromotive 340 kph pump
2. Will the internal pump work with a carbureted engine that has been converted to Holley sniper? Yes definitely. I have a regulator that regulates the fuel to less than 60 PSI. I am presuming that regardless the size of pump, the regulator would ensure the fuel pressure stayed consistently where it needs to be.
3. Has anyone attempted to use the Holley LIDAR fuel level sender? Won't work because of the sending unit requirements
4. Are the Boyd vents adequate? Jury is out, some problems fueling up all the same weaknesses of the Gen I tanks except the baffles and the location of the filler tube is better.
5. Any problems sloshing back through the vent with the Boyd (I got the rollover vent option)? Tanks are baffled
6. Where did you route the vent tube (pictures)?Ended up running the vent tubes through the same location as the original vent tube. Have not installed the canister due to the difficulty of getting it above or equal to the filler-tube mouth.
7. Anyone go in from the rear to take the old tank out and install the Boyd (pictures)? Won't work on install, you can cut it out from the rear.
8. I have a converter to convert the Boyd sending unit signal to work with the Auto Meter Fuel Gauge, Where did you mount the unit (pictures)? We put ours in the drivers side kick panel inside/
9. I would be grateful for any help/advice