the dreaded throttle control error codes

[FFRWRX]

This is going to be a bit of a long one. Do others have a bunch of codes that are always there and you just ignore?

This is a 2006 WRX drivetrain (drive by wire).

I've got these error codes, and the car starts/runs/drive fine (most of the time, which I'll get to):

P1518 – starter switch circuit low input
P0852 - Park/neutral switch input circuit high
P1152 - O2 sensor - but I did replace it
P1153 - O2 sensor - but I did replace it
P0113 - intake air temperature sensor 1 circuit high
P0502 - vehicle speed sensor A circuit low
P0503 - vehicle speed sensor A intermittent

BUT...I bought this 818C partially assembled by a previous owner, and I could see the gas pedal was replaced, so an indication that there might have been an issue. While working on the car, now and then when starting it the gas pedal would not respond. I would turn it off and back on and that generally cured it. Now the car is done and I'm driving it, it will go into a limp home mode now and then; won't go above 3,000 RPM. With the throttle floored it will go up to 3,000 RPM and then bounce there as if hitting a rev limiter. I would turn it off and back on, sometimes a number of times, and then it would be OK for the rest of the drive. The additional error codes were then:

P2127 - throttle/pedal position sensor/switch E circuit low
P2138 - throttle/pedal position sensor/switch D/E voltage correlation

I replaced the throttle pedal with a new one, cleaned all the connectors (throttle pedal, throttle body, throttle control relay, ECU) but it still occurred pretty much every drive. Yesterday it did it again on a drive, but wouldn't recover this time. Multiple times shutting it off and restarting and still would not go above 3,000 RPM. Checked the codes and the P2127 and P2138 were gone, but this new one was there:

P2122 - throttle/pedal position sensor/switch D circuit low

Cleared the codes and tried it again....no luck. So in a way it is good that it has gone from an intermittent issue to a full-time one. Intermittent issues are always a pain since you never know if you've solved it.

I removed the throttle body, cleaned it internally and the connectors again, but that didn't help.

I checked the real time data on my code reader and it showed the throttle position as: 14.1% at idle, 19.6% when floored

The factory service manual gives a lot of trouble-shooting but it is all to do with the harness. Is there a way to check the throttle body itself? Haven't found anything on-line. I have no issue with replacing it if that will solve this issue. But I really don't want to buy another one only to find that isn't the issue. New ones are of course very expensive, but there are "remanufactured/refurbished" ones on eBay for around $200.

I measured around 5 volts at three of the throttle body connector pins with the ignition on. The manual says it should be 10V, but I've also read that 5V is correct.

Any suggestions or help?

Rick

[driveslikejehu]

Not sure if you mentioned this... Do you have a throttle stop? My first hard drive I got some of those codes, I think, and it went into limp home mode.
The DBW throttle needs a stop or it will error. Bob-in-Cincy has a post about it

[Ajzride]

The other thing to run to ground before you spend any money is.... grounding. This car is super sensitive to good grounding. I built a grounding circuit on mine instead of relying on the frame for good grounds.

[RPGs818SNA]

I second ajzride's post regarding good grounding and the symptoms you are seeing. The welded frame is fine for grounding as long as you have good connections to it. I found quarter inch fine threaded bolts tapped into the frame with aluminum antisieze effective. And like ajzride, I also ran ground wires between all the ground points for redundancy. Here's what overkill looks like.

20201120_134748.jpg

RPG

[FFRWRX]

I appreciate the quick help.

On the throttle stop...not sure about that. I've seen 2 different designs of pedals. Mine is the one that is completely enclosed with Hall effect sensors, or something like that, no copper traces. The pedal has a hard stop between 2 of the parts and it is pretty thick, hard plastic. I don't see how it could go past that. Here is a picture of it:

Screenshot 2023-08-15 at 12.26.43 PM.jpg

On the grounding...yes, that is a possibility. I have grounded every ground connection I've found, but yes, there are a ton of them. I'll have another good look around and clean and re-do the existing grounds. I think I read somewhere about an intake manifold ground, so I'll check for that.

Rick

[lpmagruder]

When I was altering my factory harness, I had found the dbw lines were frustratingly close to the right length, but was like an inch short with how I had components laid out. I was about to clip the wires and extend them, but I checked the wiring diagram and noticed one of the wires (on my car, it was a white wire, pin B23 on ECU) was a shielded wire. So I chose not to mess with that and re-arranged a bunch of stuff to make it work at its original length.

Check and see if the previous owner extended that wire. If they extended it with just a solid wire, or had some intermittent short between the shield and conductor, I could see it causing issues.

[FFRWRX]

Looking at the wiring diagram, B23 goes to the pedal and that wire has not been modified in my car/harness. I did do quite an extensive wire diet, but left ones like that alone.

I took the IC off this morning to check the throttle plate opening. Of course it was working fine now. I put a small mirror near it that I could see from the drivers seat. Ignition on and had full movement of the throttle plate; confirmed with the real time data on throttle movement %. Put things back together and went for a drive. Everything worked well......for about 5 minutes, then limp-home mode again. Clipped a large ground from the TB to the frame but of course that didn't help. Don't know what else to try. The grounds look good. I'll check the wiring diagram again for grounds to do with the throttle system.

Funny thing is that when I got home and did some testing, the limp-home went from its usual 3,000 RPM to almost 4,000 RPM. This is just flooring it in neutral. I'll see about measuring the voltage at the TB wires that control the throttle plate motor. If that voltage is low when the limp-home thing is happening then I'll know it isn't the throttle body....maybe? Then again, if it is getting the proper voltage but the throttle plate movement isn't what it should be, maybe there is some feedback system to lower the voltage to limp-home. So then it could be the throttle body. The conclusion.....I don't have a clue!

[FFRWRX]

...OK, I borrowed your line.

Just to confirm. This is the engine grounding info from the wiring diagram:

Screenshot 2023-08-15 at 5.40.59 PM.jpg

If I'm understanding this, terminals C15 and A5 at the ECM both go through a number of connectors and then to a large grounding tab. Would there be any harm in me adding an additional wire from those 2 connections, right near the ECM and grounding them? Likewise I could do that with D3 and D7; but why don't they ground those internally with the others? Why run an additional wire to ground? What if I connected all 4 together at the ECM and grounded them? Will I be creating some feedback between them that shouldn't be there? But they are all essentially connected together now, no?

[Ajzride]

Yes, you can connect all four of them to a giant ground lug right at the ECM. I used a grounding bus bar with the large left lug to the frame and the large right lug to the battery:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

I have one of these grounding bars in the front bay, under the dash, behind the seats where the ECM is, and one in the engine bay. All of them go one side to the frame, and the other side daisy chains through each other back to the battery.

[RPGs818SNA]

It's ok to add a ground to an existing ground, Rick, but bad form to combine grounds on a single wire that weren't designed that way. A ground wire has some resistance, especially if it goes through several connectors. So whatever current goes through that wire to ground raises the voltage at the source. For instance if the wire has a 0.01 ohm resistance, a 10 amp current will raise the non-ground end to 0.1 volts. Normally that doesn't matter, but when the current is changing rapidly, it generates a varying voltage which can confuse some sensitive circuits.

It might be worth your time to check the voltage on all the ECM ground pins when the engine is running to make sure they are all adequately grounded. Compare them to battery ground to see if there is an outlier.

Good luck with all this. And remember that sometimes signal wires are flaky too.

RPG

[FFRWRX]

Been chipping away at things. I put some dedicated ground leads from the ECM (C15 & A5) to the frame right near the ECM. Went for a short drive, not expecting the issue to be solved, so I wasn't disappointed when it wasn't.

I started going through some of the other error codes I have. I disconnected the MAF plug and found that one of the wires had come out of the connector. It was the one at the end that goes to ground. So I repaired that connection and branched another lead off it to my dedicated ground. That eliminated the one code (P0113 - air intake temp) so that was good news.

I have an error code for the neutral switch, so took a look at that. Not too easy to get at (had to take some of the shifter mechanism off the tranny), but removed the sensor to test it. Seems like it is not working. With an ohm meter connected to the 2 leads, pressing the "button" that goes into the tranny doesn't do anything. So I ordered a new one; not too expensive and should have it tomorrow.

I also have 2 error codes for the vehicle speed sensor. The harness is supplying 12V and one of the 3 leads indirectly connects to ground. I ran an additional branched lead from that wire to a good frame ground. Still have the 2 codes, but just with clearing them and scanning again, not driving the car. The shifter stuff is still apart until I get the new neutral switch so can't drive the car. The speedo works fine, so does that mean the speed sensor is OK? Then why the error codes? I may replace that one too, but can't get one quickly, has to be ordered.

So no conclusion yet, but just checking out what I can and fixing what I find needs fixing.

As for combining grounds, not sure if that could cause an issue or not. Most of the factory trouble-shooting indicates that grounds should have a resistance of 1 ohm or less (from source to ground point). I tested a piece of wire that I had from my wire diet. This was about 5' of wire, a connector, and another 5' of wire. I measured .3-.4 ohms. I assume a short dedicated ground lead would have almost 0. If the factory manual allows for 1 ohm or less, it must be OK with zero. So the system must be designed to handle 0-1 ohm on each ground lead. As for combining them, they are already all combined by attaching to the car frame. There are also a number of ground connections that go to a common connector that is then bolted to the frame. I'm not saying you are wrong by any means, I suppose I'm just convincing myself that what I've done is OK.

Rick

Edit: Neutral switch replaced and one more error code gone. Limp-home mode still there. I should have the vehicle speed sensor on Wednesday so hopefully another couple codes will be gone.

[FFRWRX]

Initially I had these codes:

P1518 – starter switch circuit low input
P0852 - Park/neutral switch input circuit high
P1152 - O2 sensor
P1153 - O2 sensor
P0113 - intake air temperature sensor 1 circuit high
P0502 - vehicle speed sensor A circuit low
P0503 - vehicle speed sensor A intermittent

Plus the 2 connected with the throttle when the car went into limp-home mode; P2127 and P2138.

Fixed the broken wire for the intake sensor. Replaced the Neutral switch. 2 codes gone.

Without the car going into limp-home mode, I had 5 error codes left. I replaced the speed sensor today, ran the codes again, and.........no codes. No codes! They were all cleared. I went for a drive and for the first time ever the check engine light was not on. When I was almost home it went into limp-home mode and the check engine light came on.

Got home and checked the codes again. All 7 codes were back. The intake air temp one was gone since I did take care of that one. But all the others, including the 2 throttle ones were back (including the neutral switch one).

I'm pretty sure that the new neutral switch and the speed sensor did not suddenly crap out at the same time. So there is some common factor that triggered all these error codes. I know, you are going to say a bad ground somewhere. I'll hunt through the wiring diagram again, but don't remember seeing that all these circuits have something in common. And something in common with the starter wiring and the O2 sensors? Can't see it, but it must be something along those lines.

When I cleared the codes after getting home and scanning again, they all came back, so something that came connected/disconnected when driving was still connected/disconnected. And why did changing the speed sensor temporarily clear all of them? Very strange.

Rick

edit: just read on a Subi forum of someone leaving the green connector connected while trying to start/drive the car. It gave most of the codes I'm getting. I always do disconnect that green connector before driving, but it is like it shorts out and connects somewhere?

[RPGs818SNA]

Great to hear that you got everything working, even if just for a while. That suggests your sensors are OK, but you have, hopefully, just one wiring problem left to find. Maybe it’s physically near your new speed sensor and unintentionally wiggling it restored it’s connectivity for a while. If it’s not that green connector shorting to ground somewhere, I hate to say it, but it seems likely that there’s still a grounding problem.

The ECM has 6 ground pins, all of which go through 1 or 2 connectors before reaching ground:

B137 D3 BW through B317 to ground
B137 D7 BL through B317 to ground
B137 D2 BW through B100 and F60 to ground
B137 D1 BY through B100 and F60 to ground
B136 C15 BR through B100 and F60 to ground
B134 A5 BR through B100 and F60 to ground

If you haven’t already checked those intermediate connectors, that might be a place to start. You might also disconnect the battery and measure the resistance of each ground pin to frame ground. Also check engine to frame and battery ground to frame. If you find one connection higher than the others, it’s ok to tap that wire and run a wire to frame ground.

Good luck with this. Sounds like you are almost there.

RPG

[FFRWRX]

Thanks RPG. Heading out to the garage again with wiring diagrams. And you are right, this is sort of good news....in a way. There must be 1 thing that is causing all this.

I will check those ECM ground connections first thing.

As a last resort, I could try cutting the ECM wires that only have to do with the diagnostic connector and the green connector and nothing else (looks like just 2 wires, B27 and C16). If the limp-home still occurs then it is not something in that circuitry shorting.

[FFRWRX]

I disconnected the battery and pulled all the connectors from the ECM. Checked each lead that was supposed to be grounded and they all had a perfect ground. I snipped the 2 wires to the ECM that were connected to the green connector and the diagnostic connector, to make sure they weren't shorting somewhere. Went for a long drive and everything was good.

Went for a drive this morning and back to the limp-home mode. There was a really bad flat spot around 2500 RPM yesterday (but no check engine light) so I cleaned the MAS when I got home. It looked fine but gave it a good spray with contact cleaner and the flat spot was gone today. If I can get a throttle body for cheap I'll try that. Don't really think that is it but out of ideas at this point.

Rick

[Ajzride]

I think Bob has a spare TB that he loaned me so I could test if mine was an issue. Not sure if shipping to Canada would induce extra headaches.

[FFRWRX]

After wallowing in self pity for a while, I'm thinking of what to do next.

I have a line on a used throttle body that I could get cheap; like almost free. Even though I don't think that is it, it may eliminate one possible factor.

I wondered if the O2 sensors are an issue. A friend had a car that needed spacers to get the sensors somewhat out of the main exhaust stream. A fairly easy thing to try, but again, it drives fine until the check engine light comes on and it goes into limp-home mode, then there are multiple codes (always the same ones). So again, I don't think that is it, but could try the spacers.

Not much help searching Subaru sites for solutions. I've read of some people having this exact issue. They try all sorts of things and eventually stop posting. So no obvious solution there.

The car runs and drives great for 5-15 minutes usually. Then suddenly goes into limp-home mode. Won't go over 3,000 RPM and the throttle does almost nothing. Flat roads aren't an issue, but trying to go up a hill is very slow. I have to pull over many times if anyone comes up behind me. When it happens, it just happens. No bumps in the road or temperature factor or any other common issue I can think of. Just normal cruising light throttle and I can feel it suddenly lose power. So I don't go far from home.

I appreciate you listening to me whine.

Rick

edit: Forgot to ask this. I've read about all sorts of "learning" procedures for the ECM after the battery has been disconnected. I've never done any of them. Just start the car and drive. Here is one procedure (probably the longest one I've found). Is it important to follow a learning procedure or will just driving the car eventually sort things out?

1) Turn off the lights, aircon, stereo or any system in the car that draws extra current on top of the engine.
2) Disconnect the battery for 30 mins.
3) Reconnect the battery.
4) Before you start the car for the first time, turn the key to the ON position but do NOT turn the engine over. Wait 10-15 seconds so the electronic throttle body or IACV has time to go to the factory programmed home position.
5) After waiting, start the car and let it idle without any load, lights, A/C etc.
6) Every 20 seconds or so the idle will be adjusted up and down as the ECU tries to adjust it towards a stoichiometric fuel / air mix.
7) Leave the engine running for a full 10 mins but DO NOT TOUCH THE ACCELERATOR during this time or turn on anything that will cause extra electrical current draw.
Cool Turn off the engine, and leave the key in the OFF position for at least 20 sec.
9) As per step (4) turn the key back to the ON position for 10 - 15 sec without actually starting the engine.
10) Start the engine and leave to idle for a further 5 minutes without touching the accelerator and without turning on other systems in the car.
11) Turn off the engine again and wait at least 20 sec before restarting.
12) Take the car for a test drive as the ECU should now be fully retrained.

[Ajzride]

Your issue is not needing to relearn. I drive mine all the time after long battery disconnects and it's not ideal, but it never hits limp mode. There is something more nefarious going on here. I'm racking brain and coming up with nothing but a wiring gremlin. Do you have an immobilizer on your system? It's not the issue, but that would limit some of the trouble isolating things we could try.

[lpmagruder]

If you don't already have one, might be worth getting one of the Tactrix OpenPorts and logging a few long drives and see what goes crazy right before limp mode. You can get a surprising amount of data from the stock ECU with that thing.

[FFRWRX]

Your issue is not needing to relearn. There is something more nefarious going on here. I'm racking brain and coming up with nothing but a wiring gremlin. Do you have an immobilizer on your system? It's not the issue, but that would limit some of the trouble isolating things we could try.

I really appreciate you trying to help me figure this out. I agree that there is something here, probably a simple thing, causing this. But being intermittent makes it harder to find. I only have the stock immobilizer system; whatever the 2006's had. I know aftermarket ones can cause a lot of headaches when they act up.

If you don't already have one, might be worth getting one of the Tactrix OpenPorts and logging a few long drives and see what goes crazy right before limp mode. You can get a surprising amount of data from the stock ECU with that thing.

Now that is what these forums are for! I never thought of that. I have the Tactrix cable and a laptop I bought a while ago. I used it to change the ECM program to eliminate the secondary air system and other stuff that wasn't in the car any more. I never thought of using it for data logging. I'll read up on how to do that. Should be very interesting to see what it shows.

Rick

[FFRWRX]

And here I thought data logging would be the easy part. Can't get it to work.

I've tried Romraider Logger and it won't read from the ECM. It gives me this error:

Screenshot 2023-08-26 at 8.28.04 PM.jpg

Then I tried ecuEdit and get this error:

Screenshot 2023-08-26 at 8.28.18 PM.jpg\

And all that was after watching a dozen videos on how to data log and reading dozens more articles. It seems that everyone expects you have the computer all set up and just want to know how to connect it to the car. The setup procedure (what to download, where to put the files, what various things to select) are skipped over.

Different frustration now.

Rick

[Ajzride]

If you can install TeamViewer I'll be happy to watch the screen and help you along. You don't have anything else talking to the ECM do you?

[FFRWRX]

Don't think anything else is "talking" to the ECM. No aftermarket stuff installed. I can scan for codes fine, so I would think that means the ECM can be accessed. But maybe logging is looking for something else?

I'll play around with it a bit more and if I can't resolve it I'll take you up on your offer.

[FFRWRX]

I realize this is not the correct forum for this, but since I started here...

Things have gone from bad to worse. It's almost funny now. Couldn't get Romraider to read the ECM, so I decided to delete it all from my computer and reload it. Found a very good video with step by step instructions. Loaded it all, put things in the correct place and ran it. It would pop this up for about 2 seconds then it would disappear and nothing would happen:

Screenshot 2023-08-28 at 12.38.52 PM.jpg

So, deleted everything and downloaded it again....and again....and again. Now it won't do anything different, but when I go to the list of Windows programs, it shows this:

Screenshot 2023-08-28 at 12.39.05 PM.jpg

It was previously showing all the various Romraider programs, now it only shows the Uninstall one. It is still there under Program Files (x86) with all the various components. I've tried various versions of Java since I've read that it has to be a 32 bit version and I'm pretty sure that is what I have now. But why is it not even loading the program properly in Windows now? Like I said, it is almost funny how I'm making progress in the wrong direction. Almost forgot what the original purpose of all this is for.

Rick

[Ajzride]

What version of windows are you running? How much memory do you have on your laptop?

[FFRWRX]

I'm running it on my laptop, not the Mac I'm using here. So I'm taking pictures of the screen. This is what I have:

Screenshot 2023-08-28 at 12.57.39 PM.jpg

Romraider was running a few days ago when it wouldn't read the ECM.

[Ajzride]

I've always had the best luck running Romraider on a VM with Windows 7 32bit, but your don't have enough ram to run a VM. is your Mac a laptop? It might be able to run a VM.

[FFRWRX]

No, Mac is not a laptop. Could it have something to do with Java? I've read a lot of articles on how to load Java and all the steps to go through to make sure it is set up properly. Just went through a bunch of "environment" set ups but really don't understand all of this. The Romraider general set up page has a long article on setting up Java and all sorts of complicated steps. Does it really take that to get it to work, or is that for people developing stuff?

https://www.romraider.com/index.php/...GettingStarted


I'll take a break for now. Again, I appreciate the help.

[Ajzride]

Unfortunately RomRaider hasn't been recompiled on the newer versions of Java, so all of the complicated steps are related to getting it to run on an old version. If it was compiled for the newest version this would be far simpler. Most likely we need to get all of the java and romraider stuff fully removed and start with a clean slate related to those two components.

[Ajzride]

My Romraider virtual box only uses 2GB of RAM, so you should be able to run it on your laptop. Once it cools down some tonight I'll go out and make sure it is logging correctly, then I'll zip it up and put it on dropbox for you.

[FFRWRX]

Some progress. I think I have the correct version of Java now. At least the program shows up here now:

Screenshot 2023-08-28 at 6.19.02 PM.jpg

Still just flashes the Romraider title screen and then does nothing. There is no way everyone can be having issues like this with it. Anyone with any sense would have given up long ago.

[Ajzride]

Well rather than helping you, I've joined you in your misery. 4 hours sweating in the driveway and I still can't get romraider logger to read my ECU. ECUFlash will read it so I know my cable is good, but romraider won't. I even got out my2011 laptop I did my original tuning with. It's dead, but I pulled the hard drive and copied the exact revisions of installers I used for that machine from the downloads folder, and I still can't get it to talk. There is something jacked with the connection between romraider and tractrix, romraider won't see any available COM ports (edit: it doesn't need to for an open port 2.0). I'm off to the romraider forum for support. Once I get it all worked out I'll circle back with you.

[lpmagruder]

Sorry to have brought another frustration with my suggestion!

I ran out to check, maybe there is something specific to these cars we all deleted that causes issues, but mine reads and logs fine. 07 WRX donor. Don't connect the green thing for logging, just in case you're doing that. It's only for flashing.

I have an older laptop from 2010 or so, at one point it got updated from Windows 7 to 10 and I remember it being a big pain to get Romraider to read from my 03 WRX at the time. Pretty sure I had to do a full "clean" java uninstall, restart, and install the correct one, then change some settings to make sure it wouldn't auto update. Also, I don't think it will do anything until you get the separate definitions files installed.

You get logger definitions here: https://www.romraider.com/forum/view...p=66788#p66788
You get ECU definitions here: https://www.romraider.com/forum/topic360.html

[FFRWRX]

Well, isn't this getting interesting. At least we know who started the trouble.....and I thought it was me!

I'm sorry AJ that in helping me you are sweating things out. I'm sure you'd rather be sweating working on your car.

The suggesting for me to data log is still a good one, and maybe the only way to solve my issue. I have removed all traces of Romraider and Java several times and loaded both. I think I finally have a 32 bit version of Java loaded and working. And Romraider loaded, with the proper ECU and logger files. It will pop up the initial Romraider logo, then quit. I've done the steps I've found for tweaking the Java location and stuff like that, but there must still be one small thing missing.

Not giving up yet. I really don't have a choice if I want to get the car running.

[lpmagruder]

Have you tried right clicking and running as admin? Sometimes that can help. Also whitelisting it in any sort of antivirus software. Wish I wasn't 1,000 miles away and in another country otherwise I'd offer to drive up with my laptop!

I think most of those Bluetooth OBD2 readers these days have some sort of logging now too, I've got one for my phone . Definitely not as nice as what the Tactrix can do but if you've got a friend who already has one of those it may be another thing to check.

[Ajzride]

The OBD2 readers won't work on a 2006 because it has no can-bus. The form factor of the plug is the same, but the Subaru ECM is talking SSM/K-line instead of CAN.

[FFRWRX]

Strange stuff.

I removed all the Romraider files once again and reloaded it (with the various definition files). Again it didn't show up under programs in the side menu, but was there under "Program Files (x86"). I loaded it a 2nd time from the download folder, not removing anything first, and now it is there under the program drop-down menu. Still won't run, but strange. And yes, I've tried running it as admin. I don't have any antivirus other than what Windows has. I'll check and see if turning it all off helps.

I was just out in the garage with my code reader. This one:

Screenshot 2023-08-29 at 5.20.03 PM.jpg

It does have live data, which I've used. It also has capture, which I've never used. I was just playing around with it and I think it can data log to a certain extent. Not sure how much but certainly worth a try if I can't get Romraider working.

[lpmagruder]

For what it's worth I was able to do some rudimentary logging with this El cheapo eBay Bluetooth OBD deal and the Android app called "Torque"

2007 wrx donor, not sure if that's the same as 2006 as far as the ECU is concerned

Screenshot_20230829-221554.pngPXL_20230830_031802178.jpg

Definitely not as nice as what you get with romraider but it's something.

[FFRWRX]

Worked with Aj through TeamViewer (isn't technology wonderful....when it works). Couldn't get Romraider to run. He set me up with VirtualBox, but that didn't work either. The settings in my BIOS won't let it run a virtual mode; this is beyond my knowledge of what is going on. I dropped my laptop off at the place I got it and explained the issue with virtual mode. He said he knew what I was talking about. I told him that was good since I didn't. He said to give him a day or so to see what he could do.

I did manage to data log with my code reader. It can log about 10 minutes of driving info before it is full. Of course the first 10 minute drive went well with no limp-home mode...why should things be easy? So I cleared the reader memory and set out again. It went into limp-home mode while data logging this time. I've only had a quick look at it and can't seem to get it downloaded into the computer to study it. I can look at it on the screen, one parameter at a time; I will spend more time with it. I think Romraider would capture much more data so I still want to get that working.

Rick

[FFRWRX]

I got a used throttle body for almost nothing. I swapped it for the one that was on the car. I didn't go for a test drive or run codes or anything since I'm pretty sure this is not going to make a difference. Why?.....

I removed the original one and left it connected and positioned so I could see it through the rear window. With the ignition on and slowly flooring the pedal, the throttle would open fully some of the time. Sometime it would then go to about 1/8" open and only go from closed to that position even when flooring the throttle. Cycling the ignition on and off would sometimes return it to normal operation (opening fully) and sometimes it would only open that 1/8". When I swapped throttle bodies the "new" one did the same thing. Sometimes it would fully open with the pedal floored and sometimes not.

So with the engine not running, what would be causing this? It isn't like the car is moving or bouncing to move loose wires or sensors. The ECM isn't looking for running parameters (O2 sensor data, airflow data, etc). There is the pedal, the ECM, and the throttle body controlling this with the engine not running. So something in the ECM is triggering the throttle body not to open? But not all the time. What else is it looking for?

Haven't got my laptop back yet, so can't data log. But now I wonder if that will show me anything useful.

Rick

edit: throttle control relay maybe? Won't hurt to get a replacement.