Considering A Mark IV Roadster - Lots Of Questions

[JK 23112]

Good day, folks! I hope that everybody is doing well into the new year. I have lurked on this forum from time to time - thinking about possibly making a move on a MKIV Roadster in the future. My knowledge of kit cars is very limited - only from talking to somebody who was putting fuel into his tank at a Wawa and from a friend of my brother who used to own one more than twenty years ago.

I just got a nice brochure in the mail from Factory Five - showing their different models and some of the prices, etc. Definitely a well-done information packet! I don't turn that good of a wrench where I'd be able to build one of those cars myself - but would consider possibly hiring somebody to walk me through the process and provide an extra set of hands. I understand that there are shops who are competent for such things - but that almost seems like cheating. LOL! I do like the idea of being able to spec out a car the way I would want it set up. ( I had four Mustangs and two Corvettes in my life. )

Something else I am curious about it involves registration and insurance. Does the car get registered as a 'new' vehicle or as a 1967 model? Do you get regular license plates for these cars or are they eligible for antique tags? How does the personal property tax assessment work (Virginia counties & cities charge a tax every year based upon the book value of the vehicle)? Does a Factory Five MKIV Roadster have to get a smog or emissions test anywhere? What about state inspections? Are they necessary? Does the car have a VIN on the frame or do you get one assigned by the DMV after it is completed? How do you title it?

Do you insure it with a regular carrier such as State Farm, USAA, GEICO, Allstate or do you have to use Haggerty or another company like that? Does it warrant a big discount since it's not a car you drive to school or work?

Thank you for any replies or comments. I'm not very knowledgeable about these cars, but I am trying to learn more about them.

Peace!!

P.S. What made you choose Factory Five instead of another 'kit car' company out there?

[John Ibele]

Welcome to the forum. I'll do my best to answer your questions, and I'll take them in reverse order.

Why choose Factory Five? For me, I liked its focus on building a reasonably-priced vehicle which was faithful to the original car with a stout, race-capable frame, decent components and flexibility in how its built and finished. In addition, this forum and the community behind it is invaluable in assisting the first-time builder.

There are 3 things you need in any state (registration, licensing and title) and the process to get those vary by state (and from my experience, can vary quite a bit even within the state). You could PM JB in NOVA or another VA resident for any information you cannot find on your VA DMV website. I'm in Minnesota, and in my first visit I brought in the required forms, proof of insurance, and required photos of the car including photos of any identifying numbers (frame, engine block, transmission and rear diff tags). I walked out with registration paid and complete, temporary plates, and received my personal plates in the mail a few weeks later. Titling requires an inspection to ensure that numbers found on the car match the photos on file. After that a trip back to the DMV with completed inspection in hand, pay the tax bill, and receive the title. These are titled as custom cars in MN, not antiques. That too can vary by state, as can emissions requirements and the need for things like windshield wipers.

Although you didn't ask a specific question, it sounds like you would like to say you built the car, but you're not sure building one is really the right thing for you. First, there's nothing wrong with buying one of these cars. Without buyers for completed cars, every builder on this forum would own a vehicle with zero resale value. There are many contributing members on the forum who bought their cars and know and maintain them well.

There are professional builders who are members on the forum and it doesn't take much searching to find them. These folks can tell you the many ways they can help with the build, from building start to finish and handing you the keys, to stopping in and helping build the car in your garage if you get bogged down.

Think long and hard about building a car before deciding its the right thing for you. You'll be spending many hours (500? 1000? 1500?) in the garage, mostly alone, building this thing. You need to know that you'd be happy spending your free time this way. I began this project having barely turned a wrench on a car before, but with a love of cars. More importantly I knew I would be happy spending hours alone working with my hands, having spent my youth building model airplanes, then a few wooden boats, and with a few years as a professional woodworker.

Even with that, I knew I had a tremendous amount to learn about cars in general and this car specifically, so I spent about a year reading this forum and reading books on car design as well as the assembly manual before diving in. Despite all the preparation, there were frequently times when I didn't know if I was doing things right, leading to a variety of outcomes: doing it the right way, doing it the wrong way followed by undoing it and doing it the right way, head-scratching / posts on the forum / doing it the right way, and occasionally, just setting down the tools and backing away. With any big project like this, there will be some really challenging moments for a first time builder, and you need to know that you're capable of pushing your way through those. In three words, the requirements for a first-time builder are these: suitability, aptitude and fortitude.

I hope that helps and good luck.

[Al_C]

John gave you a most comprehensive answer, so I'll be brief. I bet you are super excited! This could be a wonderful journey. My suggestion is that you get your hands on a build manual and read it a couple of times. That will give you a better feel of your ability to build it yourself. On registration - each state is different. In Illinois, I've see antique and regular plates. Most people title their vehicle as a 1965. That simplifies a lot as the safety equipment and exhaust requirements were much easier then. I'd check with my current insurance company to see if they'd take on this vehicle; otherwise there are specialty companies (including a forum vendor) that can help.
Finally, why FFR? I believe the company offers the best combination of product quality and support, and I believe our community is very, very strong. I have made friends all over the country (and some outside the country) since becoming part of the FFR family.

[Daddy O]

Hi there,

The Build School is another thing to consider if you want to get a bit of hands on and see what the major steps are before deciding. I don’t have the link handy but believe its on the Factory Five website. My son and I did and it helped seal the deal plus this fantastic forum. There were many tasks I had not done before but looked at each as its own mini project which helped keep the feeling of being overwhelmed at bay. Totally worth it! Every time I go in the garage I can’t believe I am fortunate enough to go drive it!

[egchewy79]

OK...already had a couple of comprehensive answers.
Here's my experience. FFR has one of the strongest online communities on this forum and the ffcars one. I couldn't have completed my build without the help of other builders who both were in my shoes and others with a vast amt of knowledge.
Admittedly, I probably came into the project a bit underprepared. Order a PDF or print copy of the manual and read it a few times. Search the forums for someone else's build thread. Here's mine:
https://www.ffcars.com/threads/first.../#post-6044826

Start your own build thread and others will chime in as you have questions and also offer critiques if they notice something wrong.

consider going to the build school in Michigan. I didn't, but only hear good things from those who have gone. This can give you a quick answer if this project is way over your head.

There are builders who will help with a turn key build and others who will actually travel to your house and help you complete it if you get stuck (all at a cost, obviously). But there's also a satisfaction of figuring it out yourself. Pretty much every question you might have has likely been answered on the forums in the past. Get familiar w/ how to best search for topics (google "factory five forum ..."). The search feature on the actual forum site leaves much to be desired.

Focus on one part of the build at a time. Unless you have automotive experience, the amt of knowledge you need to absorb is like trying to drink from a firehose. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Licensing/titling/registration is a state to state question. Here in OH, I was able to skip the inspection process (through a loophole which has reportedly closed) and no emissions testing here. Also some states require wipers, backup lights, DOT seat belts, bumpers, etc, so reach out to others in the area to see what you need and which inspection centers are familiar w/ these builds. Join your local cobra/car club and meet others who can lend a hand when needed. In OH, I had to register it as a 2019 replica, or the date on my bill of sale from FFR.

My car is insured through my regular home/car insurance which is state farm. best pricing I found and no limits on milage with the opportunity to turn off the liability/collision/medical insurance during the winter months when it's sitting in my garage.

Last of all, make sure you have the space and time for this project. This can be done in a single car garage space, but I found that it was nice to have parts/pieces sprawled out as you'll be bouncing around from one part of the build to the next. Life gets busy with kids/work and it can take years to finish something like this. I worked in spurts and had months where other priorities took precedence. Overall I had it built and titled in around 2 yrs (pandemic/early quarantine helped shave months off) and painted after 2 more yrs.
Having a supportive spouse/significant other is important as well. If they're not on board with your plans, life is a bit more challenging. My wife encouraged me to build a separate garage to house this project. Definitely a keeper.

Good luck

[phileas_fogg]

Hi JK,

The short answer to your VA registration questions: The car title says 1967 for the model year, but the code in the VA DMV data base lists the year you first register the car - no antique plates. You will get hit with the personal property tax, but it's trivial compared to your daily driver ($193 for my 2011 Honda Pilot vs. $33 for my Roadster). Smog tests are not required, but you do have to complete an annual inspection. Ask a local owner where they get their car inspected; some shops are more pragmatic than others. The car will get assigned a VIN when you register, and you'll have to rivet a state VIN tag onto the frame. The number on the VIN almost always matches the number on your frame.

I insure my car through Robin at Midwest Classics for just over $300/year. USAA wasn't interested in insuring my vehicle here in VA, and quoted me a price reflecting so. Insurance is a whole 'nother topic with lots of threads; be sure you ask for "agreed value."

The specifics for titling & registering in VA are at https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-I-have-plates!!!.

If you know how to properly use a torque wrench, enjoy problem solving & working with your hands, AND have an attention-to-detail mindset, you've got 90% of the skills required to build these cars. I had ZERO experience when I bought my kit, and two years later I'm driving the coolest car around. If you're in the DC area, you're welcome to visit; PM and I'll send you my contact information.


John

[CraigS]

One thing you might also consider is buying a completed car. They are out there and can be a really great deal. If you go that way though you really need to consider where the car is currently titled and as what year it is titled. The deal is that most states title a car the same year as it was titled where it was built. Generally there is no room for variation. The year it is titled has can affect taxes and insurance rates. Titled as a 65-67 is best.

[Alan_C]

Although some States let you title the car as a 65-66, most have you title with the year of finished construction such as California. Trying to convince a DMV clerk to title the car as a 65-66 can result in legal problems down the road. Learn and know the rules for titling specially constructed vehicles in your State. Robbin at Midwest Insurance is your best bet for insuring your car for the first year. He knows his stuff and will place you with the best match for an insurance company. If you build a very high HP car, insurance becomes problematic. Many carriers then want racing experience or at least a ownership history of high HP cars to make sure you are safe behind the wheel.

[john42]

Although some States let you title the car as a 65-66, most have you title with the year of finished construction such as California. Trying to convince a DMV clerk to title the car as a 65-66 can result in legal problems down the road. Learn and know the rules for titling specially constructed vehicles in your State. Robbin at Midwest Insurance is your best bet for insuring your car for the first year. He knows his stuff and will place you with the best match for an insurance company. If you build a very high HP car, insurance becomes problematic. Many carriers then want racing experience or at least a ownership history of high HP cars to make sure you are safe behind the wheel.

It's crazy how the states all do it completely opposite of each other. Here in New Hampshire their law/rule is it is titled/registered as the model year that it replicates. So, I'm titled as a 1965 Shelby Cobra, I have classic license plates, and after next year I don't even need an inspection any more. Up to now I only needed inspection once every 2 years (cars over 40 years), but at 60 years in New Hampshire the inspection is no longer needed at all.

[JK 23112]

Holy smoke! That's a lot of great information. I can definitely tell that there are a lot of very knowledgeable people on this site who are willing to share their experiences and give some sage advice. I greatly appreciate all of the responses. It sounds as if the laws pertaining to registration and inspection vary wildly between states. Can't say that I am surprised.

My wife and I are legal residents of Virginia (outside of Richmond) and own a home there. We have a two-car garage. Whatever we do (she's about 50 percent on board with the idea of a roadster, but is reluctant to buy a car with no roof), it will be in the summer of 2025. We currently live in Germany because of my wife's job and are slated to return to the States permanently next summer. Right now, her mother (84) and youngest daughter (21) are living in our house, but will likely move out about the same time we return stateside.

I had four Mustangs in my life and two Corvettes. All were pretty fast, but probably didn't have the power-to-weight ratio of a Mark IV Roadster. My wife and I will both be 60 years old (I am already retired) when we come back "home" to Virginia - and she'll retire for the second time shortly after that.

I hadn't really considered buying one that somebody already built - maybe that is an option. I definitely have to pay attention to this forum. I start to get my pension in 2025 - from where I retired in 2022 - and thought it'd be a fun project. My wife and I were members of our local Corvette club and the wealth of knowledge among those folks was amazing. I suppose it is even better among the people who actually built their own cars!

Thank you for the informative replies! I am happy that I'm starting to look into this well ahead of time. I greatly appreciate the comments and willingness to help out a newcomer.

[JK 23112]

Hi JK,

The short answer to your VA registration questions: The car title says 1967 for the model year, but the code in the VA DMV data base lists the year you first register the car - no antique plates. You will get hit with the personal property tax, but it's trivial compared to your daily driver ($193 for my 2011 Honda Pilot vs. $33 for my Roadster). Smog tests are not required, but you do have to complete an annual inspection. Ask a local owner where they get their car inspected; some shops are more pragmatic than others. The car will get assigned a VIN when you register, and you'll have to rivet a state VIN tag onto the frame. The number on the VIN almost always matches the number on your frame.

I insure my car through Robin at Midwest Classics for just over $300/year. USAA wasn't interested in insuring my vehicle here in VA, and quoted me a price reflecting so. Insurance is a whole 'nother topic with lots of threads; be sure you ask for "agreed value."

The specifics for titling & registering in VA are at https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-I-have-plates!!!.

If you know how to properly use a torque wrench, enjoy problem solving & working with your hands, AND have an attention-to-detail mindset, you've got 90% of the skills required to build these cars. I had ZERO experience when I bought my kit, and two years later I'm driving the coolest car around. If you're in the DC area, you're welcome to visit; PM and I'll send you my contact information.


John

Fairfax Station? Wow! My dad used to live there back during the 1990s - not far from Ox Road. Small world. My wife lived up that way too - long before we ever met. Our place is about 85 to 90 miles south of you; Hanover County.

Thanks for the info!!

[Mbufford]

Cheat code on the Google search. If you type in whatever you’re trying to find, followed by site:thefactoryfiveforum.com it will only return results from the forum.

[CraigS]

Wow, an FFR will definitely spice up your retirement. So wife is nervous about no top? Is that a safety concern or a sun concern. A double or dual roll bars may help w/ the first. A top will take car of the second. I had a fiberglass hardtop on mine which never came off. The side and rear windows were off and on depending on weather. Top on but all windows out, and fresh air vents into the foot wells made for a very nice cruise.

[JK 23112]

I think rain is her biggest concern.

[GoDadGo]

In the meantime, consider watching all of the Factory Five assembly videos starting with the first one which is linked below:

https://youtu.be/NnJdjMKDC_g?list=PL...VS-CVcPoK4x6lB

Good Luck & Welcome Aboard!

[john42]

I think rain is her biggest concern.

Ya... rain sucks.

[BRRT]

I have wrenched on cars as a hobby since I was a youngster, but I still attended build school. It was a great time and answered a lot of questions. The instructors and facility were top-notch. I walked away with a confidence boost that I could get this undertaking completed up to the point of bodywork and paint. I also was able to test fit the seat offerings from FFR to confirm that yes, I could fit in one of these little beasts. You get a small discount on your kit order if you have attended build school.

[CraigS]

If I were building another FFR I'd go w/ a soft top. Just make sure the rear window zips out. It may not be 100% waterproof but it is close enough. Ad a heater and the FFR suddenly becomes a lot more usable. Even on a 70deg day, if you take it to dinner, it may be a chilly ride home, so you probably pick the other car. W/ a top and a heater you take the FFR. Getting through February/March, you find a nice sunny day but it is still 35deg? No problem. A 30 min cruise in your FFR does wonders for your frame of mind.

[JK 23112]

I have wrenched on cars as a hobby since I was a youngster, but I still attended build school. It was a great time and answered a lot of questions. The instructors and facility were top-notch. I walked away with a confidence boost that I could get this undertaking completed up to the point of bodywork and paint. I also was able to test fit the seat offerings from FFR to confirm that yes, I could fit in one of these little beasts. You get a small discount on your kit order if you have attended build school.

That "build school" seems pretty cool - even if I ended up not building a car. I have relatives in Michigan, so maybe I could combine a fun car trip with a family visit.

Based on the comments here, I might be better off just buying one that's already built. I'm very early in the game, though, so I have plenty of time to learn more before we return home for good to the States.

I wonder how much the fiberglass top costs for one of these roadsters. Does it mess with the "look" of the car? Just cuirious.

Thanks again for everybody's replies!

[Jeff Kleiner]

I wonder how much the fiberglass top costs for one of these roadsters. Does it mess with the "look" of the car? Just cuirious.

Here's one with an APE top that I did for a customer a couple of years ago. Can't speak to the current pricing since the owner purchased it but be aware that I had to do some surgery to make it fit properly which resulted in additional labor cost above and beyond what he paid for it.





Another option is the 427 hardtop which are produced in England.



There have been a couple of group buys organized by FFR owners. My recollection is that the tops run around $5000 US (approximately 4,000 British Pounds) plus shipping to the US. The roll bars have to be modified or eliminated and like the APE tops they are unpainted.

Hope that helps!

Jeff

[CraigS]

I obviously like the way my APE looked. Personal preference.
77DSC_5432-X3[1].jpg
77DSC_5434-X2[1].jpg
77DSC_4775-X2[1].jpg

[John Ibele]

Based on the comments here, I might be better off just buying one that's already built. I'm very early in the game, though, so I have plenty of time to learn more before we return home for good to the States.

Don't let my words of caution slow you down. Just something to think about for a bit - and if you're suited, as others have said, it is a blast. Greatest puzzle ever. Build school was a great idea that a number of others suggested. I did it and it was a great way to spend a weekend regardless of what I did afterwards with a car. And a great way to decide if building's your thing.

Regardless of what path you take, it's a great experience. These are fantastic machines.

[john42]

I remember being on the fence between buying a completed car and building. Ultimately I decided to get a completed car and the main reason was I have a very small single car garage and just couldn't imagine building a car in it. I bought an older challenge car with the idea of fixing it up to my liking. Since then I've:

- disassembled the front and rear suspension and replaced every single ball joint and bushing
- replaced the engine (with the help of the Traveling builders)
- replaced the wiring harness (sigh rain...)
- removed the body a few times and fixed some bumps and bruises in the fiberglass and sent it off to be painted
- replaced the fuel tank and nearly all the plumbing for the fuel system
- replaced the brakes
- removed the interior twice and well. I hate rain... really hate rain..

and the list goes on and on. My wife's comment on it, is well... you could have just built the entire car at this point there isn't anything left to take apart and redo. I look at it now and can't name a single thing on the car I haven't taken apart and put back together again. But you know what! I wouldn't trade it for the world. Great experience and fun! I realize now though I really could have bought a kit and built it. I think there would have been a lot of swearing in my small garage space though. I do know that I would never be able to get the engine in and out of the car in my garage space. My ceilings are way way too low. People say you can build one of these in a single car garage. I agree you "can", but I wouldn't wish that hell on anybody.

[BRRT]

One thing to keep in mind as you consider this endeavor - the farther away from a "standard" build you get, the more complicated it gets. A mild small block Ford with carb, standard brakes, cable clutch, and manual transmission uses FFR provided parts and requires little fabrication. Follow along in the build manual, do a little fitting and trimming, and it pretty much goes together. The farther you move away from that the more you have to take on yourself, using your knowledge and skills.

[Theshandman]

Here's one with an APE top that I did for a customer a couple of years ago.

Nice, Jeff! Is that Antimatter Blue you showed me a while ago? That's the color I chose.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Nice, Jeff! Is that Antimatter Blue you showed me a while ago? That's the color I chose.

It's not blue, it's a Jaguar GREEN

Jeff

[AA-ron]

There are lots of great answers here so I won't attempt to add much.
I just finished my build this past summer. I entered my build with absolutely no mechanical automotive skills. I would say building one of these kits is less about how much you know, but more about how much you are willing to learn along the way. Each night after work, I would go to my garage and work on one very small part. I'd learn what it took to do that by simply reading the manual and giving myself time to figure it out-- pretty soon, it started to look like a car! The forum was an amazing resource, and when I hit a stumbling block, several on the forum where there to help. I'll also add that you do not need to go tool crazy (although that is fun), simply buy tools as you need them-- and there aren't many beyond the standard set of wrenches, allen sets, jack stands...etc.
Yes, building these cars is not for everyone, and knowing your limits in terms of how much time you're willing to put in to it, and your level of "stick-to-it-ness" is a healthy way to look at this project.
Now that my car is done, I can honestly say that whether you build or buy one, or something in between, there is no car more fun to drive!

[john42]

There are lots of great answers here so I won't attempt to add much.
I just finished my build this past summer. I entered my build with absolutely no mechanical automotive skills. I would say building one of these kits is less about how much you know, but more about how much you are willing to learn along the way. Each night after work, I would go to my garage and work on one very small part. I'd learn what it took to do that by simply reading the manual and giving myself time to figure it out-- pretty soon, it started to look like a car! The forum was an amazing resource, and when I hit a stumbling block, several on the forum where there to help. I'll also add that you do not need to go tool crazy (although that is fun), simply buy tools as you need them-- and there aren't many beyond the standard set of wrenches, allen sets, jack stands...etc.
Yes, building these cars is not for everyone, and knowing your limits in terms of how much time you're willing to put in to it, and your level of "stick-to-it-ness" is a healthy way to look at this project.
Now that my car is done, I can honestly say that whether you build or buy one, or something in between, there is no car more fun to drive!

Yep!

As an side.. I keep hoping some one local to me gets a kit and would like .... help or rather just a bud to come over and tinker shoot the **** and... help! I'm 10000% willing. Would be fun. :-) So if your in the mist of building shout out! I'm sure there are many like me that would love to come hang and help.

[Alan_C]

I think rain is her biggest concern.

Our cars are fickle enough driven in the dry. They are downright dangerous when driven in the wet without the right tires and a very light foot on the gas pedal. If getting wet is her concern, think about a different car such as the Daytona coupe. At least the Daytona looks good compared to the hard tops made for the roadster. The only top that looks decent is the one from the UK. Another consideration is getting in and out of a roadster with a hard top installed. I'm only 5'5", with high back bucket seats the best why to get in and out of my roadster was to stand. You can't do that with a top in place.

[JK 23112]

I honestly don't care for how the car looks with the fiberglass top (no offense to those of you who have them) and as far as my wife goes, she's cool with whatever I decide to do. When we had Corvettes, we never drove them in the rain - although we did get caught once or twice. We had the targa top with both of them, so we could still stay dry in the rare event of an unpredicted downpour. I am not a huge fan of side pipes, but they tend to look great on the roadsters.

Obviously, I agree with not wanting to chance driving one of these beasts on wet roads. That is a recipe for disaster. It'd be a "fun day Sunday" cruiser - maybe taking it a cruise-in, a short road trip or something like that.

I am leaning towards buying one vs building a car - but I still have a lot of time to make up my mind. I truly appreciate all of the comments too. You folks are as friendly as the folks in the Corvette Forum, but I have not - as of yet - seen any of the snarky people chiming in here.

I am curious about windshield wipers. I see some kit cars don't have them. Sure, you don't buy these to drive during inclement weather.............but how do you pass state inspection without them? I also see that the FFR cars lack backup lights - which are probably necessary in most states that require annual inspections. In Virginia, we have to mount a front license plate. Do these cars come with a bracket for that? They look ugly, but the cops will stop you for not displaying one.

Something else I am curious about is one of the competitors to Factory Five called Superformance. They have a different kind of way they sell cars - complete except for the drivetrain and through a network of dealerships. Do any of you have experience with them or know somebody who owns one? I didn't see any prices on their web site, though. Just curious.

Have a great Friday!!

[edwardb]

leaning[/i] towards buying one vs building a car - but I still have a lot of time to make up my mind. I truly appreciate all of the comments too. You folks are as friendly as the folks in the Corvette Forum, but I have not - as of yet - seen any of the snarky people chiming in here.

I am curious about windshield wipers. I see some kit cars don't have them. Sure, you don't buy these to drive during inclement weather.............but how do you pass state inspection without them? I also see that the FFR cars lack backup lights - which are probably necessary in most states that require annual inspections. In Virginia, we have to mount a front license plate. Do these cars come with a bracket for that? They look ugly, but the cops will stop you for not displaying one.

Something else I am curious about is one of the competitors to Factory Five called Superformance. They have a different kind of way they sell cars - complete except for the drivetrain and through a network of dealerships. Do any of you have experience with them or know somebody who owns one? I didn't see any prices on their web site, though. Just curious.

What, no snarky responses? Let me be the first. Just kidding I hope... We also avoid driving in the rain with our cars. After having several Roadsters now a Daytona Coupe. But I wouldn't call it a disaster if (and that's a big if) you run the right tires. If you go all out racing or drag tires, they won't like wet roads or cool temperatures. I've stuck with performance tires that have decent wet and temperature ratings. Currently running BFGoodrich g-Force Rival S tires in the Coupe. Which are popular for autocross. Wet and/or cool temps also a good time to take it easy on the throttle. But with some care, it's manageable.

Wipers, front plates, backup lights -- all subject to your local regulations. I've put wipers on all my builds, including washers, because they're required for the safety inspection in Michigan. Although some guys are able to talk they're way out of them or remove after the one-time inspection. Backup lights aren't supported by Factory Five or required in Michigan. But I've added to my last two builds and they're an easy add when doing the electrical. All the usual transmissions used for these builds have a reverse switch. Can't help with the front plate, although plenty of guys on here have installed them.

I'm not exactly sure I'd call Superformance (or Backdraft) as competitors. A better description might be another option. The cars are factory built, as opposed to a kit, and imported to the U.S. without engine and transmission. Then finished through a dealer to your specification as you described. There are plenty of both in our club. For some it's the best option. They don't have the desire, patience, time (whatever) to build their own. I've had opportunity to work on and drive a Superformance. I prefer my Factory Five. But I'll leave it at that. Factory Five build and sell prices vary a lot based on condition, age, configuration, etc. But in general, the Superformance/Backdraft versions are more expensive. Since this is a Factory Five user forum, obviously most of us have gone that direction and are biased. Including me. A well built and equipped Factory Five build will compete favorably with any other brand. But just like Ford/Chevy/Mopar, etc., you will get lots of different opinions and experiences.

[CraigS]

You need wipers in Va because you need to pass a safety inspection. Plates; I drove mine in Md for 8 years and in Va for 7 years. Never had the front plate on the car, but it was in the trunk. Once you get going on your car, search around on forums for inspectors. I had one in each state that was familiar w/ FFRs. Now it can be hard to find actual regs from 1965 but basically they inspect the car using 65 specs. So no front tag and no backup lights was fine. Rain; I am an avid autocrosser so one of the things I did to my car was adjust the gas pedal linkage so it had more travel than is normal. This gave me better fine control of the throttle which I did mainly for autocrosses but was real nice in rain also. BTW I drove to and from autocrosses on 275/315 wide slicks. I got caught in the rain 6-7 times. The answer is drive slowly. I had to get off the DC beltway a couple of times so I could drive at 35-40. Twice I sat under a closed bank drive through and once under a handy tree. But I always got to where I wanted to be. Superformance is one of the worlds best replica car manufacturers. If I could afford one I might own one but they are whole other level especially the aluminum body versions. Buy vs build; I bought very basic build FFRs twice. Then I went to work like John42. One thing I really liked is I immediately drove mine home and drove them from then on. No spending 1-2 years in the garage. The first was a MkI and second a MkII. The second one got; 4 link to 3 link to IRS rear suspension, MkIV front suspension, manual to power steering, 351 to 408 engine, paint, completely new interior, expanded trunk, etc. BTW, again like john42, I am about 3hrs from Richmond so I'd love to come up for a weekend and work on your FFR w/ you. Food, drink, and a bed is the fee.

[JK 23112]

What, no snarky responses? Let me be the first. Just kidding I hope... We also avoid driving in the rain with our cars. After having several Roadsters now a Daytona Coupe. But I wouldn't call it a disaster if (and that's a big if) you run the right tires. If you go all out racing or drag tires, they won't like wet roads or cool temperatures. I've stuck with performance tires that have decent wet and temperature ratings. Currently running BFGoodrich g-Force Rival S tires in the Coupe. Which are popular for autocross. Wet and/or cool temps also a good time to take it easy on the throttle. But with some care, it's manageable.

Wipers, front plates, backup lights -- all subject to your local regulations. I've put wipers on all my builds, including washers, because they're required for the safety inspection in Michigan. Although some guys are able to talk they're way out of them or remove after the one-time inspection. Backup lights aren't supported by Factory Five or required in Michigan. But I've added to my last two builds and they're an easy add when doing the electrical. All the usual transmissions used for these builds have a reverse switch. Can't help with the front plate, although plenty of guys on here have installed them.

I'm not exactly sure I'd call Superformance (or Backdraft) as competitors. A better description might be another option. The cars are factory built, as opposed to a kit, and imported to the U.S. without engine and transmission. Then finished through a dealer to your specification as you described. There are plenty of both in our club. For some it's the best option. They don't have the desire, patience, time (whatever) to build their own. I've had opportunity to work on and drive a Superformance. I prefer my Factory Five. But I'll leave it at that. Factory Five build and sell prices vary a lot based on condition, age, configuration, etc. But in general, the Superformance/Backdraft versions are more expensive. Since this is a Factory Five user forum, obviously most of us have gone that direction and are biased. Including me. A well built and equipped Factory Five build will compete favorably with any other brand. But just like Ford/Chevy/Mopar, etc., you will get lots of different opinions and experiences.

Thanks for the boatload of information! I appreciate it. Since I am a legal resident of Virginia, I suppose that windshield wipers/washers and a front license plate are going to be required to pass inspection. Not sure about the backup lights...........but that would probably be part of the process too.

Have a great afternoon!

[JK 23112]

You need wipers in Va because you need to pass a safety inspection. Plates; I drove mine in Md for 8 years and in Va for 7 years. Never had the front plate on the car, but it was in the trunk. Once you get going on your car, search around on forums for inspectors. I had one in each state that was familiar w/ FFRs. Now it can be hard to find actual regs from 1965 but basically they inspect the car using 65 specs. So no front tag and no backup lights was fine. Rain; I am an avid autocrosser so one of the things I did to my car was adjust the gas pedal linkage so it had more travel than is normal. This gave me better fine control of the throttle which I did mainly for autocrosses but was real nice in rain also. BTW I drove to and from autocrosses on 275/315 wide slicks. I got caught in the rain 6-7 times. The answer is drive slowly. I had to get off the DC beltway a couple of times so I could drive at 35-40. Twice I sat under a closed bank drive through and once under a handy tree. But I always got to where I wanted to be. Superformance is one of the worlds best replica car manufacturers. If I could afford one I might own one but they are whole other level especially the aluminum body versions. Buy vs build; I bought very basic build FFRs twice. Then I went to work like John42. One thing I really liked is I immediately drove mine home and drove them from then on. No spending 1-2 years in the garage. The first was a MkI and second a MkII. The second one got; 4 link to 3 link to IRS rear suspension, MkIV front suspension, manual to power steering, 351 to 408 engine, paint, completely new interior, expanded trunk, etc. BTW, again like john42, I am about 3hrs from Richmond so I'd love to come up for a weekend and work on your FFR w/ you. Food, drink, and a bed is the fee.

Wow! That's really cool and - thanks for the information about VA's rules for inspection. If they go by 1965 standards, I would assume that a front license plate is required because Virginia had them back then. Would it be registered with the "antique" plates that come in white over black or black over orange? At least there is no requirement for catalytic converters or emissions controls then. We have our house in Hanover County - which doesn't require tailpipe or smog tests like they do in NoVa.

I am familiar with Blacksburg - well, sort of. Both of my cousins went to VA Tech and before I retired, I used to drive a tractor-trailer from Ashland to Roanoke and back every night. I memorized every pothole on 64 and 81. LOL! I have a lot to digest between now and the summer of 2025 - when we return to Virginia from Germany (when my wife's assignment here ends). Our house has a two-car garage, but I don't think I'll be able to get away with hogging all of it for a kit car (yet another reason to buy rather than build).

If I decide to get one of these cars, I just might take you up on your offer for a weekend of 'car work'. We have an extra bedroom and my wife is an excellent cook. The fridge is always full of beer. I have always been a car nut, but am not exactly mechanically inclined. I know what most parts are on a car and know what makes things work, but that doesn't mean I am a mechanic by any stretch. I have done minor stuff - oil changes, etc., but not much beyond that. I did watch while a friend of mine tore down and rebuilt a 427 big-block Chevrolet V8. That doesn't mean I could do it, though.

Maybe the 3-day school they have in Michigan might help me a bit; I don't know. I am still very early on in the process - but want to have as much knowledge under my belt as possible before delving further into this. I will certainly be watching the "Cars For Sale" section to get an idea of what's out there and how much money the FFR cars are fetching.

My mother-in-law and stepdaughter are in our house right now while we're in Germany - so we'll have to figure out how to get those birds out of the nest (they're expecting it) by the time we return home. Lots of ground to cover! Thanks for the comments about Superformance. I didn't see any prices for their vehicles, so I guess that means that they are not affordable. From what I understand, the cars are totally complete - except for engines, transmissions and rear axles. Probably required to be registered as a 'new' car too.

As you live in Virginia, how does the personal property tax work on an FFR kit car? Do they charge you based upon the base kit value or the insured value? Those cars don't exactly have a normal "book value" like a Chevrolet or Toyota.


Thanks again for the information!!

[Alan_C]

I am curious about windshield wipers. I see some kit cars don't have them. Sure, you don't buy these to drive during inclement weather.............but how do you pass state inspection without them? I also see that the FFR cars lack backup lights - which are probably necessary in most states that require annual inspections. In Virginia, we have to mount a front license plate. Do these cars come with a bracket for that? They look ugly, but the cops will stop you for not displaying one.

Something else I am curious about is one of the competitors to Factory Five called Superformance. They have a different kind of way they sell cars - complete except for the drivetrain and through a network of dealerships. Do any of you have experience with them or know somebody who owns one? I didn't see any prices on their web site, though. Just curious.

I installed wipers on my MK4 and made them work properly for the 2nd owner. Many will tell you the best wipers is the use of Rain-X on the windshield. The Rain-X makes the water sheet off so much better. A good thing to do with or without working wipers installed.
Until you get to the better kits like the Kirkham, there is little competition. Check out some of the comparison threads between the Superformance frame/chassis to that of the MK4, just no comparison.

[JK 23112]

I would not plan on driving the car in the rain and I definitely understand the value of Rain-X on the windshield. However, I'll probably need the wipers in order to pass the state inspection.

[john42]

There are 2 types of Cobra drivers:

1 - those that have driven in the rain
2 - and those that will drive in the rain.

It will eventually happen :-)

[John4337]

You may not plan on it, but if you drive it, you will get rained on at some point. The wipers can be made to work pretty well with a bit of effort. They are also handy for clearing fog from the windshield.

https://youtu.be/srcA8T0qpvg

[Alan_C]

There are 2 types of Cobra drivers:

1 - those that have driven in the rain
2 - and those that will drive in the rain.

It will eventually happen :-)

Yup, been there and done that. It is not just the rain from above, but the water build up that comes off the edges of the windshield right into your lap. Don't need to ask me how I know as most have experienced it. Having a roll of blue painters tape in the trunk to close up the front door gaps can be a god send.

[john42]

Heheh yep. I've come to the unfortunate understanding that you need wipers on BOTH sides of the windshield (outside and inside) for it to have any meaningful effect. I get as much water on the inside of my windshield as I do on the outside...