Flywheel

[danmas]

Howdy all,

In today's episode of stupid newbie tricks....

So I was in the process of mounting my flywheel to my engine and that went pretty well. That said, not so much on the pressure plate. I snapped off one of the bolts that holds the plate to the flywheel. I am going to try and back it out and then chase the holes and remount. To my question however....

Since these things are balance to the nearest 1/2 ounce, will my taking some of the metal off as I chase put me at risk of having an unbalanced flywheel? Anything else I should do on this (other than not cross thread a bolt and keep going...)? First time on this and so could use some advice....

Thanks!
Dan

[cob427sc]

As long as you didn't cross thread the bolt, just broke it by over tightening, the bolt should easily unscrew and not have caused any damage to the threads. I have removed similar screws by just twisting it out with a screw driver or worse case using a ***** punch and hammer. If you do have to chase the threads, I can't imagine the amount of material removed will have any impact on the balance. Next question - what are you using for bolts? They should be at least a grade 5, prefably 8 bolt that won't easily break. Also, check your torque setting. Sounds like you may have hand torqued way beyond the limits recommended for the bolts.

[danmas]

Using the 150-2201 ARP Ford pressure plate bolt kit, which I think is grade 8. Yes, the torque is supposed to be about 30 foot pounds. I definitely cross threaded it and was too silly to stop. Reference stupid newbie tricks.

I will have to try and back it out. Thanks!

Dan

[Jeff Kleiner]

No concerns about the balance. When you reinstall the PP since you’re working against the spring pressure run all of the bolts in finger tight then start turn them a rotation or two at a time, criss crossing in kind of a star pattern until they’re all snug then torque them to spec.

Jeff

[danmas]

Well, in the spirit of don’t be like me, Jeff’s comments got me to thinking some more. Assumptions get me every time. I probably watched a half dozen videos about how to install clutch and fly wheel and all that sort of stuff. I missed the part where they told me which way to face the clutch plate. Apparently, the hat side of the clutch plate needs to face towards the pressure plate and not the fly wheel. So, I may have been extra cool and bent the clutch plate as well. Will run over to shop and check in a bit.

In the mean time kids, in almost every application for our cars, the clutch hat side goes towards the pressure plate and the transmission, not the flywheel and engine. Whee!

[CraigS]

If I understand correctly, the remaining portion of that bolt will be near impossible to get out. It is cross threaded in there. I would remove the flywheel and take it to an auto machine shop. I expect it will need to be drilled out and the threads replaced w/ a helicoil or similar. Since it is in there crooked, this will be a lot better done by someone who has done it before and using at least a drill press and maybe a mill. I have worked on cars off and on for 58 years w/ about 30 of them as an employee being paid for my skills and I would do as I laid out because a clutch/flywheel is too important to mess with.

[danmas]

So I drilled out the stuck bolt with my drill press and a bit just a hair smaller than the threads. I then chased it with my tap and it takes the new bolt pretty well. When I reassemble to check the bell housing and the clutch runout I will put locktite in it. The clutch plate sits flat on the flywheel as near as I can tell and I have new grade 8 pressure plates bolts coming tomorrow. Looks like it will be ok and the drill press I have is worth its weight in gold. I chased it from the back of the fly wheel and it drove the old (what was left of it) thread bolt out. Thanks everybody...

Dan

[rich grsc]

Well, in the spirit of don’t be like me, Jeff’s comments got me to thinking some more. Assumptions get me every time. I probably watched a half dozen videos about how to install clutch and fly wheel and all that sort of stuff. I missed the part where they told me which way to face the clutch plate. Apparently, the hat side of the clutch plate needs to face towards the pressure plate and not the fly wheel. So, I may have been extra cool and bent the clutch plate as well. Will run over to shop and check in a bit.

In the mean time kids, in almost every application for our cars, the clutch hat side goes towards the pressure plate and the transmission, not the flywheel and engine. Whee!

I'm sorry, don't see how anyone could make that kind of mistake. The clutch plate can't even set against the flywheel surface like that

[danmas]

@ Rich -- Never underestimate my ability to do it wrong. That said, I know a little bit more than I did a few minutes ago and I will know more tomorrow. I am not doing this because I am any good at any of this stuff, and I presume that most people don't know their butt from a flywheel when they first start out. I certainly don't. Or didn't.

All that said and with this in mind, here is what I think is correct. Before I tighten anything down, could you folks review?Flywheel.jpgClutchPlate.jpgPressurePlate.jpg

[Jeff Kleiner]

All that said and with this in mind, here is what I think is correct. Before I tighten anything down, could you folks review?

Stop! You're missing the pressure plate locating dowels in the flywheel. They position the PP precisely. If you don't have them and simply rely on the bolts to locate it there's a real good chance that it will be off center and vibrate...perhaps a lot.

Here's a Ford flywheel with the 3 dowels installed.



Also, you didn't tell us what engine you're dealing with. If it's a 302 based Windsor you must use sealer on the flywheel bolts. The holes in the crank are drilled threaded all the way through and without sealer crankcase oil can leak through onto the clutch.

Jeff

[danmas]

Stop! You're missing the pressure plate locating dowels in the flywheel. They position the PP precisely. If you don't have them and simply rely on the bolts to locate it there's a real good chance that it will be off center and vibrate...perhaps a lot.

Here's a Ford flywheel with the 3 dowels installed.



Also, you didn't tell us what engine you're dealing with. If it's a 302 based Windsor you must use sealer on the flywheel bolts. The holes in the crank are drilled threaded all the way through and without sealer crankcase oil can leak through onto the clutch.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

This is the FlyWheel: RAM Billet Steel Flywheels 1529
The Engine is a 351W bored and stroked to a 427.

I read somewhere that the shoulders on the pressure plate bolts replace the dowels. That said, you are the expert.

This is the kit I am using:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-CSUMFFC07

I think what I need to do is apply the lube to the flywheel bolts and then locktite after that (The lube goes on the end). Happy to use dowels as well but don't have a clue what I need. Suggestions?

Update: I talked to Summit racing and they didn't really know one way or the other, so I am going with the Kleinerators recommendation and I just ordered RAM Clutches 563 - RAM Dowel Pins

Thanks!
Dan

[StangRacer]

Hi Jeff,

This is the FlyWheel: RAM Billet Steel Flywheels 1529
The Engine is a 351W bored and stroked to a 427.

I read somewhere that the shoulders on the pressure plate bolts replace the dowels. That said, you are the expert.

This is the kit I am using:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-CSUMFFC07

I think what I need to do is apply the lube to the flywheel bolts and then locktite after that (The lube goes on the end). Happy to use dowels as well but don't have a clue what I need. Suggestions?

Update: I talked to Summit racing and they didn't really know one way or the other, so I am going with the Kleinerators recommendation and I just ordered RAM Clutches 563 - RAM Dowel Pins

Thanks!
Dan

Good choice... I wouldn't rely on the shoulders of the bolt to locate the pressure plate.

Also, you mentioned putting Loctite on the pressure plate bolts. The torque applied to the bolt, or more appropriately the screw, causes the screw to stretch. It is this stretch of the screw that keeps the screw tight as the result of the friction by the screw being in constant tension. If you use red Loctite you are going to have to heat that screw with a torch to remove it when you eventually replace your clutch. Just something to keep in mind...

[rich grsc]

Thread sealant is fine to use, put the Loctite in the drawer and lock the drawer.

[Mike.Bray]

Also, you mentioned putting Loctite on the pressure plate bolts. The torque applied to the bolt, or more appropriately the screw, causes the screw to stretch. It is this stretch of the screw that keeps the screw tight as the result of the friction by the screw being in constant tension. If you use red Loctite you are going to have to heat that screw with a torch to remove it when you eventually replace your clutch. Just something to keep in mind...

^^^What he said^^^ It's called Hook's Law.

That's why you shouldn't just swap bolts around willy nilly, each bolt with a different tensile strength will have a different torque rating. I would go with ARP pressure plate bolts and use their recommended torque so you know you get the appropriate amount of stretch.

[CraigS]

Great job on getting that bolt out.

[weendoggy]

I covered just what you're talking about (proper disc installation) in one of my YT videos. Also note that most Ford flywheels have two threaded holes for clutch covers. One is for SAE and the other is Metric. Yep, seen people use the wrong ones too!

[danmas]

For those that have done this before, should I put lube in the pilot bearing? Feels like I should but I can’t seem to find anything one way or the other…

Thanks,

Dan

[weendoggy]

For those that have done this before, should I put lube in the pilot bearing? Feels like I should but I can’t seem to find anything one way or the other…

Thanks,

Dan

You can put a small dab of lube on the input shaft pilot stub and the bearing. I would refrain from "packing" the bearing.