Why a Factory Five Cobra Kit? Instead of another manufacturer with similar price?

[rodolfo]

Hi,

The time to choose the COBRA kit to build is getting closer, so I wanted to ask you guys

Why a factory five COBRA kit, instead of another manufacturer with a similar price (20k complete kit)?


I mean, what are FFR stong points, or weaknesses compared to other manufactures.


Thanks in advance for the coments.

[DARKPT]

You'll find innumerable examples of well-built kits surfing the photo galleries here and on ffcars.com. Look for the same thing from other manufacturers at that price (hint: they'll be much harder to find).

The community of builders is priceless as well. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[skullandbones]

I can give you one reason for choosing FFR: same reason that convinced me. I don't think there is a better racing chassis out there for the price. It is super stiff. And if you don't know, that will transfer power better and it utilizes the suspension as is designed instead of losing energy in the twisty motions of a lesser built frame. If you don't care so much about the performance aspect, then that would not be an important factor for you. IMO, WEK.

[Joe]

IMHO because you won't find a better kit with better support at the same price point as Factory Five.

[rodolfo]

Thanks for the reply

Right now I was considering FFR and Hurricane.

I had the idea FFR was better performance wise, I mean on better chassis, so better performance ON an OFF the track.

And was getting the idea, maybe hurricane had some kind of a better finish?

But what I dont know, is if any of this two statements are TRUE?

Can anyone tell something about this?

[Joe]

Performance and Finish are primarily dependent on how you build it. The ball is in your court when it comes to that. As far a chassis goes, here you go:

HURRICANE



FACTORY FIVE - MK3

MK4 has slight differences including round front X members. Along with everything else, look at the passenger compartment framing on the Hurricane. There isn't much there!

[Avalanche325]

Strong points are that Factory Five has been doing this for a long time. The frame pictures should tell you quite a bit. I don't know much about Hurricane. How many are out there? Get a look and a ride in both.

[Gumball]

In no particular order, these were the selling points for me:
- Race development (FFR and National Auto Sport Association operate the FFR Challenge Series - a very competitive spec racing series for FFR cars)
- Company history and commitment to the hobby (get their DVD and talk to other owners about their experience dealing with FFR employees)
- Product quality (admittedly, you will find some fitment and/or quality issues, but FFR far exceeded my expectations given my understanding of the component car industry)
- Builder community (FFR has sold around 8000 kits - there are lots of other guys/gals out there who've blazed the trails and are willing to share their experience)
- Aftermarket support (there are quite a few vendors who sell an incredible assortment of FFR-specific upgrades, parts, and services)
- Frame (see above)
- Donor concept (while I didn't use much from the '94 SVT Cobra that I started with as a donor, the fact that the chassis is designed using Mustang geometry means that just about any Mustang performance part will work in some way, shape, or form on an FFR - this opens a whole new world for personalization and performance enhancement)
- Body and chassis joining process (FFR body is a non-stressed member; basically a cover for the running chassis - I don't like the idea of a bonded chassis/tub/body)
- Aluminum panel construction (I really like the look and the performance aspect of the riveted aluminum panels)
- Complete build process (I want to be able to say I built it - not "it was factory assembled" or "it came as a roller," etc...)

Hope these help.

[OCCPete]

I helped build the 2011 OCC raffle car, a FFR MK IV, and I've also been helping a buddy build his Hurricane kit. Both are very nice kits. FFR has a much bigger on-line community to get advice from while building. Hurricane is very "original" looking (and a lot cheaper than an ERA), has more legroom. You'd have a very difficult time proving one has better performance than the other.

Depends on what you want. If I were building a "modern" car with a 4.6l or Coyote motor, I'd go with FFR. If I was trying for the as close to the original as possible type build with a FE big block, I'd go with Hurricane.

Pete

[Dale Claytor]

After looking at several other companies, safety aspects had me sold and was the major reason I went with FFR (Dave rolled a roadster and walked away, even made a few minor repairs after the roll and continued on and won the race). Except for no roof, you are pretty much wrapped in steel, engineering is state of the art while keeping it "vintage" as much as possible. Support from FFR and the community has been phenominal and there are many aftermarket vendors and parts available for upgrades. I bought the complete kit and it's all there from FFR. Has been a very clean build so far and have had no major problems. For the money, FFR is the way to go. Just my 2 cents worth.

Dale

[GT-Tom]

I checked several companies before choosing FFR. The Hurricane seemed like a nice kit positioned toward being period correct. I plan on doing some upgrades that are not period correct so that was not a factor for me. The FFR frame looked more refined and safer to me with a better protected foot box based on their Racing series and I liked the front suspension on the FFR better. But the final decision was based on the company history and stability and experience. The Hurricane Company only made 122 kits before going bankrupt and the new owners purchased the rights in 2009. The parent company for the Hurricane seems pretty diverse in their expertise in manufacturing but not sure how that translates to a performance car.

Only 122 cars were made during Hurricane Motorsports' initial 3-year run in Lee's Summit, Missouri. Though the company was new on the scene, their machines gained respect among enthusiasts both on the streets and at the track. At auto events and online, Hurricane owners raved over the car's exacting quality, phenomenal customer service, kit completeness, and race-ready accuracy. Though the excitement continued to build, the car's production was short-lived. Just as new customers lined up to place orders, the company fell silent amid financial troubles. Resuscitation attempts toyed with the hopes of owners and fans, but despite two years of ups and downs, enthusiasts remained full of nostalgic sentiments. After 2 years of uncertainty, Scranton Manufacturing entered with the experience and assets to bring the cars back to life. After the purchase, Scranton quickly replaced the stagnant Hurricane website with their new message: "The Legend Lives".

The depth and reliability of the company sold me on Factory Five Racing along with the on-line community and huge base of FFR owners for support.

Ultimately only you can decide what's important to you. So pick a car and start building the car of your dreams! As long as you are happy with your choice that’s all that really matters.

Tom

[dallas_]

One of the major decision points for me was the fiberglass tub interior of the other manufacturers.

I just don't care for that type of construction.

That and the FFR forums. Those are REALLY helpful during the build.

[skullandbones]

After seeing the Hurricane frame for the first time, I don't have any problem telling which frame would "perform" better. The FFR frame has more rigidity from the 4 inch round tubes which is more period correct. AC frames had all round tubing but the 4 inch longitudenal rails were the hall mark. I'm not saying the Hurricane frame is not good but there is no way it could be as stiff as the FFR and there are safety tubes built into the driver leg area of the FFR that the other does not have. The chassis really sets it apart. WEK.

[OCCPete]

I won't getting into a pissing contest about square vs round on this forum, but here's a Corvette C6 chassis. Hydroformed so they could have made it any shape they wanted:




Pete

[AZPete]

Rodolfo, if you ever sell your Cobra the Factory Five name is becoming well known for quality as seen at Barrett-Jackson auctions and on-line sales sites. Often when the car is not a Factory Five (or Superformance) there is no mention of the kit manufacturer, but when it is, Factory Five is in the first sentence. The reputation has been earned the old-fashioned way.
Pete

[OCCPete]

Rodolfo, if you ever sell your Cobra the Factory Five name is becoming well known for quality as seen at Barrett-Jackson auctions and on-line sales sites. Often when the car is not a Factory Five (or Superformance) there is no mention of the kit manufacturer, but when it is, Factory Five is in the first sentence. The reputation has been earned the old-fashioned way.
Pete

I think I get asked "is it a Factory Five?" almost as often as I get the dreaded "is it real?" question...

Pete

[CraigS]

Even if the cars were equal technically, this and the other forum would be a major selling point.Look at both forums for a few days,see all the questions that are asked and the tremendously helpfull answers that are provided. I am on these forums every day even though I have had my MkII since 07. I enjoy reading the posts and try to pay back w/ answers or my experiences every time I can. Hey and there is a sale going on right now!
http://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new...-special-sale/

[jakester888]

I've been following FFR since 1995 when I saw that first ad in Kit Car for the donor concept. I think the kit ran $8000 back then. Fast forward to 2012... having been at a build school @ Mott college in 2005 and visiting FFR open house in 2011, I finally took the plunge.

Visiting the factory, walking around and seeing how stuff was made and finally talking to an owner who went the donor route convinced me.

Realize also that FFR is up to the 4th revision of the roadster (the MKIV) based on race proven results & fan based feedback. Speaks to their pursuit of excellence when you consider Dave & co. made these refinements in a down economy.

Truth be told, I was convinced in 1995... just took me 16 years to come up with the cash. I'm 1/3 into the build and having a blast.

[rodolfo]

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I have always thought of FFR, but as decision time gets close, I thought I would just give a look at other manufactures. But now again, I am more towars FFR.

This is what I have come up to.

FFR

- Stronger, more performance and protection oriented frame

- Great suport from the forum community

- The well earned reputation


From Hurricane, what I have heard is:

- Good finish

- Really complete kit


Thanks again to you guys,

Really help alot to make the decision.

[rodolfo]

I think I get asked "is it a Factory Five?" almost as often as I get the dreaded "is it real?" question...

Pete

Pete, when you build the FFR and the Hurricane, were they both complete kits?

Hurricane says they include lots of parts, that are OPTIONS in other kits. Is this really true?

[mrmustang]

Pete, when you build the FFR and the Hurricane, were they both complete kits?

Hurricane says they include lots of parts, that are OPTIONS in other kits. Is this really true?

Both are quality kits, the questions you need to answer are

1: What are your plans for the car (street cruiser, race car, road racer, drag racer, show car, sunday driver)
2: Are you planning a big block or small block build?
3: Does originality matter?
4: What is your entire planned budget (including paint)?


Answer those and then you'll have a better idea which kit is best for your particular needs

[OCCPete]

Pete, when you build the FFR and the Hurricane, were they both complete kits?

Hurricane says they include lots of parts, that are OPTIONS in other kits. Is this really true?

Well, that may be a bit of a stretch. I think the only major item Hurricane includes in their "complete kit" that FFR doesn't is the rear end. The only way to get a true apples-to-apples cost comparison of two kits is to make a spreadsheet, list EVERYTHING you need/want to finish the car, and cost them out.

When I was looking for a kit I had a spreadsheet with about six manufacturers listed and it was pretty eye-opening. There were a couple companies that claimed to be lower cost that ended up be really expensive once you added up all the options and stuff you had to buy to finish the kit.

Pete

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've seen some nicely completed Hurricanes but without even getting into the hardware or design of the two consider this; Hurricane as a company has failed at least twice. The latest resurrection is less than two years on with a very low number of cars produced during that time. On the other hand over the last 15+ years FFR has produced something like 7-8,000 roadsters plus hundreds of Coupes, Challenge cars, GTMs and 33s. Which one makes you feel more confident about them being there if you need parts or support a couple of years down the road?

Jeff

[rodolfo]

I've seen some nicely completed Hurricanes but without even getting into the hardware or design of the two consider this; Hurricane as a company has failed at least twice. The latest resurrection is less than two years on with a very low number of cars produced during that time. On the other hand over the last 15+ years FFR has produced something like 7-8,000 roadsters plus hundreds of Coupes, Challenge cars, GTMs and 33s. Which one makes you feel more confident about them being there if you need parts or support a couple of years down the road?

Jeff

Jeff, you make a great point, and that is why I am 99% settled with FFR

Now what I need is to do the spreadsheet with the parts needed to complete the kit, and order the kit.

Thanks

[rodolfo]

Both are quality kits, the questions you need to answer are

1: What are your plans for the car (street cruiser, race car, road racer, drag racer, show car, sunday driver)
2: Are you planning a big block or small block build?
3: Does originality matter?
4: What is your entire planned budget (including paint)?


Answer those and then you'll have a better idea which kit is best for your particular needs

Those area great questions, here are the answer to see if someone can help to point me the correct direction.

1: What are your plans for the car (street cruiser, race car, road racer, drag racer, show car, sunday driver)

A COMBINATION BETWEEN A SUNDAY DRIVER AND A ROAD RACER

2: Are you planning a big block or small block build?

SMALL BLOCK

3: Does originality matter?

ORIGINALLITY NOT SO MUCH AS GOOD QUALITY FINISH, DONT WANT A 40k CAR THAT HAS A CHEAP FIBERGLASS FINISH, OR THAT ALL THE BODY PARTS DONT FIT RIGHT
4: What is your entire planned budget (including paint)?

NOT INCLUDING PAINT, I WANT TO SPEND AROUND 33K INCLUDING:

COMPLETE KIT
THE NEW 306 FORD SMALL BLOCK (The cheap one)
TK0 OR T5 TRANSMISION
REAR END
HALIBRAND WHEELS
BILLBOARD TIRES

Do you think it is possible?

[edwardb]

Yes, it's possible if you have a build plan and the discipline to stick with it. Many (including me) get caught up in the process and the budget takes some hits. But for your planning, variation will include (1) which rear axle setup you decide on. Widely debated which is best (3-link, 4-link, 5-link, IRS) but regardless there are price differences depending on what you decide, and (2) body and paint. Huge variation here. Some guys do it all themselves, and the results are great. Others (sadly) look a little tough, and based on your description, not what you're looking for. But it is possible. Others (like me) do a lot of the body work and fitting, and then have pros do the final fill, prime, paint, etc. Still others deliver all the loose parts to the body shop and drive away with a finished product. Price can vary from <$1000 doing it yourself to >$10K to have a pro do all the work including a show quality finish. I think it's fair to estimate at least $5 - $8K to have a nice paint job, although to be honest I haven't seen a lot of information (or have any personal experience) with the Mk4 body. Since it's supposed to be better, perhaps somewhat cheaper. But regardless, lots of variations and guys will explain how they did it for less (or more) but don't underestimate. For me, this was my biggest single budget surprise. Love the final product, and I wouldn't do it differently if I did it over, but it wasn't cheap.

[Pierre B]

Tops for me was the fact that FFR races these things in the Spec series.

[patpur]

I didn't build mine. I bought it used. I'm the second owner but I'll tell you I get the same great service/technical support when I have a question as someone who's purchased a kit. It's a company with a solid history and you can order a part for the car and have it 2-3 days later. As for safety try and find the pics of Dave Smith's rollover crash. The car was up and running the next day. Dave is actively involved, he pops in here from time to time and that says a lot to me, he cares about his product and he cares about his customers.
It's a great company, my MK-1 is a great car, end of story!

[PaulProe]

Rodolpho
Sent you a PM. Call me and I can provide additional info on Hurricane

Paul

[Brian Z]

The new Mk4 body is alot closer to the original design then the older FFR models. We make the the best selling and handling kit cars on the market. Period. Feel free to call us at Factory Five Racing if you have any questions. Thank you for considering us. We take alot of pride in our work!

Kind regards,

[Crawleyscobra]

Rodolfo, The biggest factor for me was the amount of, "After-Market" custom part suppliers for the F5. I'm not concerned with how, "Original" it is. I really like all the non-original stuff that is available to customize mine. Next was the frame, next, F5 had just offered the complete kit and it has all you need to get the job done, and finally the amount of cumulative knowledge that is available on the forums. I have not come across any issue that has not already been addressed. Good Luck

[FFinisher]

I've seen some nicely completed Hurricanes but without even getting into the hardware or design of the two consider this; Hurricane as a company has failed at least twice. The latest resurrection is less than two years on with a very low number of cars produced during that time. On the other hand over the last 15+ years FFR has produced something like 7-8,000 roadsters plus hundreds of Coupes, Challenge cars, GTMs and 33s. Which one makes you feel more confident about them being there if you need parts or support a couple of years down the road?

Jeff

I am not familiar with Hurricane, but I think think Jeffs points are well intentioned and enlightnening.

For me it s a question of value. Are there better? probably... Kirkham would be better.Some might argue Superformace is better.

Is there a better value on the market today for a roadster? I don't think so. FFR, while not perfect certainly has every customer's best interest in mind. To Provide a kit as complete as the FFR for the price point is tough to match.


Also there are two forums that provide good solid support and advice. The forums are full of helpful people willing to offer good advice without criticism and jusdgement. Nearly al people advising have built a kit or two.

This is an amazing amount of support.

And.... when you are done, and thoughout your build, you will meet life long friends and other very sincere genuine good people............ Thats even better than the cars!

[Richard Oben]

I live in the Lees Summit area where Hurricane was based and had been to the facility before the company sold. I do not consider the frame in the same class as the FFR frame, not even close. In fact Hurricane was the left overs of some other kit car company before they bought the remnants, so that makes it the second time the company failed, might be a trend. JMHO, Richard.

[RM1SepEx]

Two words...

Real Engineering... most other kits "evolved" over time, through sometimes multiple owners, developed in a garage... etc... F5 was started and has always been driven by the engineering and development. Their use of state of the art tools drives their ability to deliver value for your $

Their drawback: they are not original but we all know that a further developed kit is a better handling, performing, safer vehicle now don't we... If you want original who can afford to drive it?

[Gumball]

Rudolfo - Just out of curiosity, when you posted this at one of the two incredibly helpful Hurricane forums, what did their employees - who regularly monitor and contribute to the forum content have to say? Oh yeah, I don't recall Hurricane having such a support system. Maybe that says something about the difference in the companies and their committment to their products and customers.

The new Mk4 body is alot closer to the original design then the older FFR models. We make the the best selling and handling kit cars on the market. Period. Feel free to call us at Factory Five Racing if you have any questions. Thank you for considering us. We take alot of pride in our work!

Kind regards,

[emac]

I searched the net for a while when I wanted a kit. I spoke to several people that had built FFR kits. All of said they where pretty happy with the product. No matter what kit I looked at I kept coming back to FFR. I bought my complete kit last fall and I am close to finishing. No real complaints. The minor problems I had (leaking brake caliper, fan thermo switch, one or two missing pieces) were handled with very little hassle, and they were always there to answer any questions. I think you could build the entire car without ever posting a single question just using the search feature on the forums! I found the forums are better for information than FFR.

The only dissapointment has come from the body work. My body shop has done 16 FFR cars and he was not impressed with the MKIV body as compared to the previous ones. He said certain things are better and certain things are worse. He said mine had a lot of waves and thin spots. But the lines were much better. He said from the top of the hood to the front of the car was darn near perfect. Sides and rear needed a lot of work. I have no reference, and I am only repeating his comments. I realize sometimes people may exxagerate for various reasons, so it is with a grain of salt. It is going to be very close to perfect when finished and I am figuring around 7.5K to paint.

All in all, the experience with FFR has been positive, and if I ever build another car, they would be at the top of my list. I am pleased with my decision, and proud to own a FFR.

ernest

[CalHusker]

The support of the people who have built them using their own hands....

Mike

[David]

Performance and Finish are primarily dependent on how you build it. The ball is in your court when it comes to that. As far a chassis goes, here you go:

HURRICANE



FACTORY FIVE - MK3

MK4 has slight differences including round front X members. Along with everything else, look at the passenger compartment framing on the Hurricane. There isn't much there!

IMO, there is a HUGE difference between the two frames. I can tell you that the FFR frame is probably a min of 2X more rigid based on those pics. (ive spend a massive amount of time doing FEA on the FFR chassis)

Even if you dont do track events or autocrosses.... if you do spirited driving, you will see a pretty big difference in the comfort of the car with any speed in the corners/back roads.

One thing that is seldom mentioned, is suspension geometry... I know FFR's is very good... again spent lots of time on the subject. Chassis stiffness and Geometry will affect how a car reacts during accident avoidance or some sort of evasive manuver. As long as you go with the FFR 3 link or IRS, you will be in very good hands.

Also, FFR has proven to fair pretty darn well in accidents. with 7000+ cars out there you will have a few, and Ive been pretty impressed with how they reacted.

As others have mentioned, the community is a HUGE reason to purchase the FFR car. Ive been around these cars for ~17 years and on measure, you wont find a more decent set of folks anywhere.

Finally the FFR has been through that many years of refinement. Im building a Mk4, and its it by far the nicest cobra they have built. It just gets better and better.

Good luck with whatever your decision!

David

[David]

I won't getting into a pissing contest about square vs round on this forum, but here's a Corvette C6 chassis. Hydroformed so they could have made it any shape they wanted:




Pete

Pete, not trying to call you out here, but, are you comparing the Corvette chassis with its much much larger cross section hydro formed rails, a backbone, a torque tube, and cage like structure can somehow validate a tube choice on a roadster chassis? There are things like packaging and ease of mfg that guide their choices.

I really dont have a problem with the other companies chassis. I just believe FFR's is much more sophisticated and its not the tube type that makes it that way. The backbone and a few other details found on the current FFR frames makes them around twice as strong torsionally as the original Mk1 frame from 15-17 years which is closer to the design pictured. I suspect the Mk1 and the pictured from would be reasonable close strength wise.

Again, that and the suspension design has been proven through several racing venues from Autocross to Road Racing for well over a decade.

Im sure the other car is a fine quality car. We are all just stating why we chose FFR.

Peace, David