De-powering the steering rack, plus more to come on rebuilding wrx parts

[Mechie3]

I would try a hard urethane instead. It would be able to absorb some of the load without cracking as easily. I don't think either is a very durable solution though.

[FFR-ADV]

Looking at this diagram, I am wondering if it is possible to drill and pin the outer shaft to the pinnion gear? Is the pinion too hard to drill (file test)?

Control Valve .jpg

Is the spline fitted tightly enough that the outer shaft axis is aligned to the pinion shaft (self fixtured)?

http://otcmaterial.com/rack-rack-cit...steering-rack/

MiataDepower-8-of-10.jpg

If welding is the best answer, what welding process will give the best result for our application?

[FFR-ADV]

Here is another interesting link which shows the importance of locking this shaft freeplay:

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ring-rack.aspx



If someone offers a steering rack depowering welding service to the 818 community, it will be gratefully received!

Cheers!

[freds]

Looking at this diagram, I am wondering if it is possible to drill and pin the outer shaft to the pinnion gear? Is the pinion too hard to drill (file test)?

Control Valve .jpg

Is the spline fitted tightly enough that the outer shaft axis is aligned to the pinion shaft (self fixtured)?

http://otcmaterial.com/rack-rack-cit...steering-rack/

MiataDepower-8-of-10.jpg

If welding is the best answer, what welding process will give the best result for our application?

The 06 I am working with has a valve that is considerably different to the diagram in your post. I have been unable to find a diagram of it, or been able to take it apart. It seems the only way to take an 06 apart is to drive out the pin up near the top of the shaft that connects to the steering column. (similar to the pin far left in the diagram you show). I have tried to drive mine out, but it hasn't budged (and I really tried!)

I don't think Subaru intended this to come apart...."no serviceable parts inside"...ha....ha.

Also the part that is most like the "sleeve" in the diagram is really hard (like a bearing race)...no drilling in there.

If I get any further with my attempts, I will post details.....I hope someone else will get one apart and show us the way!

It seems with this one welding, if I ever get there, will be the easy part.

[longislandwrx]

And Dave Coleman is once again the best man I ever liked.

[longislandwrx]

Cleaning and degreasing well then injecting epoxy steel between the splines. The load on the epoxy will only be compressive...if it were to crumble you are no worse off than "stock". And the crumbs have no where dangerous to go, the oil seal is above the lower bearing. This would eliminate any question of weld heat damage to the metallurgy of the components.


fred

Freds... A metal epoxy kit is going to be $8+ Taking this over to a welding shop and saying hey can you put 3 beads on this quick will probably cost you $20 cash. You are almost done, just do it right and don't worry about it again.

[freds]

Freds... A metal epoxy kit is going to be $8+ Taking this over to a welding shop and saying hey can you put 3 beads on this quick will probably cost you $20 cash. You are almost done, just do it right and don't worry about it again.

I agree completely!

My problem is getting it apart so that I can get to the two bits that need to be welded. The 06 is nothing like as simple to get apart as any of the units I have now seen photographs of on various sites and in various posts.

Perhaps I'm being dumb not getting it apart yet (I have been known to be stupid before!!!!!! of course not often ha ha)

I can however inject epoxy into the innards of the unit and lock them up completely. And the loading is totally restrained compressive also there is nowhere for any material to "get away" even assuming some of it might crumble....and on top of that if the epoxy magically all disappeared.....you're still left with the normal "twist" of the torsion bar.

That is my thinking on the subject.

I'm in no hurry, so still hoping for someone to jump in and post a "how to take apart an 06 valve"

I'll probably try again (and again)!


thanks

fred

[apexanimal]

^post up your question on nasioc and wait for the more knowledgeable people to chime in...

[metalmaker12]

fred, If you send my your pinion I will weld it for free and send it back, if you have questions on how to get it apart pm me

But yours is a 2006 so it may not be as needed to weld up the pinion neck.

[FFR-ADV]

Does anyone know if there is enough room in the tie rod adjustment to use a 2004 WRX Wagon Steering Rack with aluminum lower control arms for a WRX sedan?

818suspbrake.jpg

Thanks everyone for helping out!

[RM1SepEx]

Show us some detail when you do Freds Metalmaker12... I may need to do mine eventually! At least I have 2 of the pinion assemblies to work with...

FFR-ADV we determined that the difference was only 10 mm per side didn't we? If so there should be no problem...

[metalmaker12]

Ok if I do I will document it well, at some point I will come accross another one

[FFR-ADV]

we determined that the difference was only 10 mm per side didn't we? If so there should be no problem...

Thanks RM1SepEx, That is what I thought. Thank you for confirming.

Thanks metalmaker12, Are you planning to do this to your 818SR? Thank you for starting this tread!

[longislandwrx]

Sorry to hijack, but I got excited.

818suspbrake.jpg

I am surprised this picture has still been FFRs only mention of the wilwood kit.

I am assuming it will be the 12" kit that retails for about $1000... I'm hoping FFRs "partnering" with wilwood means better pricing... These have been on group buys for around $800 so that would be awesome.




there was a good thread about them on wrxforums.

http://www.wrxforums.com/forums/83-3...terest-20.html

I quote

A huge bonus to this brake kit is the amount of unsprung weight reduction!!!! We calculated a total reduction of 28 lbs off the front hubs!!! 12 lbs of that being rotational mass!
OE TOKICO FRONT CALIPER (w/ Pads) - 13.5 lbs/ea (27 lbs total)
OE FRONT ROTOR - 16.5 lbs/ea (33 lbs total)
TOTAL WEIGHT OF STOCK FRONT BRAKES - 60 lbs!

WILWOOD 4-PISTON FRONT CALIPER (w/ Pads + Mounting Bracket) - 5.5 lbs/ea (11 lbs total)
WILWOOD D+S FRONT ROTOR (w/ Aluminum Hat + Bolts) - 10.5 lbs/ea (21 lbs total)
TOTAL WEIGHT OF WILWOOD 4-PISTON FRONT BRAKE KIT W/ D+S ROTORS - 32 lbs!

[RM1SepEx]

DSCF0027.JPG

Ok if I do I will document it well, at some point I will come accross another one

want me to send you one to play with?

[metalmaker12]

yea if you want to, i will document it and tear it down etc

[RM1SepEx]

The pinion shaft is on its way...

[metalmaker12]

Cool, I will let you know when it gets here and I will document it, this was a great idea, thanks

[bnr32jason]

Does anyone know roughly what a competent shop would charge to swap the internals from one steering rack to another (JDM Spec-C to US WRX?)

I know I've read that it's a difficult job, so I know it's beyond my capabilities.

[Mechie3]

What is hard apart it? Custom machining? If it's just a 1:1 swap, taking apart the rack wasn't that difficult.

[bnr32jason]

It's beyond my ability for one. But I read either on this forum or another that taking it apart and reassembling it you must be very careful to have everything within tolerance. For something like that I'd rather have a professional do it, but if it's something an experienced friend of mine and I could do, great.

[Mechie3]

Taking it apart is more or less as easy as turning some big wrenches or sockets. Reassembling it is the same, more or less. It's not a motor with bearings supporting a crankshaft spinning at 7krpms. It's a slow turning shaft.

[freds]

I managed to destroy one valve trying to get inside!

It is a piece of work. Best I can figure (and believe) is:

The valve sleeve (with the seals and holes), pinion and stub shaft at the end of it. AND the upper bearing are all one unit.

The plane where the relative twisting of the torsion bar is visible is directly in line with the upper edge of the upper bearing.

The upper bearing cannot be removed from the complete assembly. They must assemble the balls/cage/outer race onto the valve-pinion body the same way all ball bearings are assembled.

I hope this helps avoid other from having to buy a replacement too, when they are "going for it"

Valve Details.jpg

[Xusia]

So what is the solution? Is it possible to place the weld where your arrow says "relative Twisting occurs here"?

[metalmaker12]

I was hoping you did not break it, I am gettins a 06 pinion shaft sent to me so I can look it over and document it correctly for future builders, sorry if you had such trouble, but at least you know now.

[Silvertop]

Just for clarity -- and no criticism intended -- Is all this discussion about welding the pinion shaft just for the purpose of eliminating 1/8" of freeplay in the steering? If that is the case, what is the level of benefit in getting rid of it?

[freds]

So what is the solution? Is it possible to place the weld where your arrow says "relative Twisting occurs here"?

As far as I can tell, that is the only place for a weld.

I'm not going to do that as you will be welding to what is the inside race of the ball bearing assembly. I mean right on the bearing race! and that is not a smart thing to do on a critical (or any other) bearing.

I am probably going to flood the internals with epoxy.

That's my opinion. Xusia. Meantime others, especially metalmaker are "studying" the issue, and I really curious to hear what their take is.

fred

[freds]

Just for clarity -- and no criticism intended -- Is all this discussion about welding the pinion shaft just for the purpose of eliminating 1/8" of freeplay in the steering? If that is the case, what is the level of benefit in getting rid of it?

Briefly....Yes!

[RM1SepEx]

I didn't weld the pinion assembly on my daughter's 91 Miata when I de-powered it (simple hose loop job) you can "feel" the slight slop in the steering when on center... you sort of learn to drive vs the edge of the slop... you have to move the wheel a bit farther than expected when going from left to right as an example.

I just came back from a short 50 mile, top down drive in it
A Life is damn good
B You get accustomed to the way it drives rather quickly
C my wife doesn't like the extra effort but my daughter likes it
D effort is only too high when you try to turn the wheels when not moving, you learn to start rolling first and it becomes natural

[narkosys]

we are over 100 posts into this and no one has really answered WHY you want to depower the steering or WHAT the advantages are. If all it is is to get rid of some plumbing then, in my case, I may see if I can get Fast Freddie's system to work with the 818.

P

[Mechie3]

I managed to destroy one valve trying to get inside!

It is a piece of work. Best I can figure (and believe) is:

The valve sleeve (with the seals and holes), pinion and stub shaft at the end of it. AND the upper bearing are all one unit.

The plane where the relative twisting of the torsion bar is visible is directly in line with the upper edge of the upper bearing.

The upper bearing cannot be removed from the complete assembly. They must assemble the balls/cage/outer race onto the valve-pinion body the same way all ball bearings are assembled.

I hope this helps avoid other from having to buy a replacement too, when they are "going for it"

Valve Details.jpg

That explains why when i measured the inner diameter of the bearing it didnt match any of the specs that the number printed on the outside race said it should match.

[RM1SepEx]

we are over 100 posts into this and no one has really answered WHY you want to depower the steering or WHAT the advantages are. If all it is is to get rid of some plumbing then, in my case, I may see if I can get Fast Freddie's system to work with the 818.

P

this isn't the first thread discussing the rack
you get more/better "feel" of the car/tire to the road interface w/o power steering... it is as simple as that

[metalmaker12]

we have discussed the benefits of no power steering very much, were just trying to get the 06 wrx rack in check, I will be getting the 06 wrx pinion shaft soon, and should be able to identify a slop potential if any. This is just the current agenda, if you have other technical info on how to de-power the rack and or it's benefits please join in. On this thread we are pro no power steering, but some may want it so that is a topic for another thread.

[Xusia]

we are over 100 posts into this and no one has really answered WHY you want to depower the steering or WHAT the advantages are. If all it is is to get rid of some plumbing then, in my case, I may see if I can get Fast Freddie's system to work with the 818.

P

That's probably because this thread isn't about the "why;" it's about the "how." There are threads with that discussion, but to sum up, some of the advantages are (as seen from the eyes of different folks; i.e. not everyone would agree with this list):

• More feedback from tires (i.e. more "connected" feel)
• Weight savings
• Less parasitic loss on engine
• Reduced likelihood of steering over-correction

[mekohler]

I am in the middle of prepping my 06 wrx. I am working on the steering rack and I cannot figure out what tool, or how to remove the recessed nut that goes over the pinion shaft. I am trying to get the rack apart to remove the piston. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Mechie3]

Spanner wrench or a drift (blunt nail punch) and a hammer. I used a drift to knock it loose then a spanner to get it off.

[RM1SepEx]

I am in the middle of prepping my 06 wrx. I am working on the steering rack and I cannot figure out what tool, or how to remove the recessed nut that goes over the pinion shaft. I am trying to get the rack apart to remove the piston. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

see post 15 on this thread, I made a spanner, dimensions are provided

See post 23, He removed the seal AND piston, you can just remove the rubber seal. There is no need to remove the piston with a Dremel etc... Removing the seal eliminates the friction to the rack assy walls and doesn't try to force fluid down the lines

The issue is how do you reduce the twist of the internal torsion bar? Somehow you need to reduce the distance between the two connection points, it's around 6-7 inches now... (just a guess, hard to tell) if you can weld or pin them together inbetween the current connection points you can reduce twist allowed. Metalmaker12 has my extra piece from my damaged 05 rack and is playing with it.

[bnr32jason]

You guys keep mentioning the 2006 model year steering rack, do you know if there are differences between the earlier model racks (02-05) that make a job like this easier or more difficult?

I'm just trying to pick the best/easiest rack to work with for the internals swap and depowering.

[metalmaker12]

the 2002-2004 wrx has differnet internals than the 05-07. I am going to try to compare the two soon.

[mekohler]

Thank you for the info, it is much appreciated.