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Thread: My Roadster caught fire and is totaled.

  1. #1
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    My Roadster caught fire and is totaled.

    fire pic.jpg

    Having completed my MkIV Roadster after one year of building in November, 2011, I had retrieved it three weeks ago from a spectacular job that Ron Randall did at Metalmorphous and was looking forward to a nice season of driving with it. Unfortunately, that came to a very abrupt end yesterday. Fortunately nobody was hurt.

    I had been driving it on and off for about an hour and had picked up a friend to go for a ride while I went and got some gas (it had about 1/8-1/4 tank). On the way, I accelerated from a stop to about 30Mph and on the way, at about 2500 RPM in first gear, it hesitated and would not respond to the accelerator pedal. It then sputtered a little as if it was going to stall. It languished along like this for about a block, and then stalled altogether. I pulled over, and there was a strong smell of gas. I assumed that I had somehow flooded the engine (which was in retrospect impossible because it is fuel injected) or that there had been some major failure of the computer or one of the nozzles that would have allowed it to flood. I waited 10 or 15 seconds and then started it up again and it put it in gear. While it was somewhat more responsive, it wasn't behaving properly and began sputtering again. I then began to think that maybe it was out of gas (as if the gauge wasn't calibrated properly at the low end) so I decided to head for home. As I pulled into a turn, it stalled again. As I tried to start it, smoke began to form under the hood followed quickly by a flame. My passenger and I immediately exited the car and stood and watched it burn while we called 911 and waited for the fire trucks. The car is completely totaled. While the fire did not spread to the remainder of the car past the firewall, the water damage and the smoke damage was enough to ruin the interior.

    Hours later, after collecting my thoughts and speaking to friends about it, I began to suspect that this could only have been caused by a failed fuel line. As I had fabricated most of the fuel lines, I was distraught over the possibility that a manufacturing error on my part had led to this. I went to the yard where the car is and looked at every fuel line. All of the lines that I fabricated were completely intact. Some had soot on them, but they were all tight, secure, and without any outside evidence of damage. The one line that I did NOT fabricate, the line that connects the fuel rails in my Mass-Flo fuel injection system, was completely obliterated. Looking at the char pattern of the engine compartment, it seems clear that the epicenter of the fire was in the region of the distributor, where this fuel line existed. Worse, while both fittings were still tightly attached to the fuel rails, one side contained remnants of the braided steel line within the fitting whereas the other side did not. I interpret this as a a failure of the line at the connection between the braided steel hose and the fitting - something that was fabricated by my engine builder (I live in NJ and due to emission laws, I had to hire somebody to build me an engine based on a pre-1973 block - in my case a 1969 Boss 302).

    See my blog at http://factory5roadster.wordpress.co...shed-for-good/ for pictures of this.


    My overall reaction to this is that the fun in this project is in the build process and the achievement of finishing it. Once it's done, it's just a car - a thing like everything else. While I am very disappointed (and a little angry at the engine builder) I am not depressed or upset. I have nothing but VERY POSITIVE things to say about Factory Five, the fine quality of the kit, the personnel, and the end product. If I decide to build another one, I wouldn't dream of doing it any other way (I cant imagine I wont be on the phone with them tomorrow).

    That said, there are two important lessons I would like to pass on. First, don't carry a fire extinguisher with the hope of trying to put out this kind of fire. I didn't have one and I'm glad I didn't. Had I, I might have been tempted to open the hood and use it, exposing my face to an undoubtedly large fireball and inherent injuries. Second, and most important, TRUST NO ONE. I have now built an airplane and a car. In both cases, there were components or subsections that I farmed out- instrument panel, car engine, paint, etc - all things that I did not have the expertise to do myself. In all of those cases, I was always struck by how there was a lack of attention to certain details and an occasional carelessness that was a far cry from the meticulousness with which I approach my building and workmanship, and a standard of acceptability which was a far cry from the standards that I set fr myself. I'm not talking about little picky details here; I'm talking more about major, obvious deficiencies. I have seen this time, and time again, and it bolsters my belief that building can be done very safely, so long as you know your limitations and are honest with yourself. However, I am also a believer in the 'pack your own parachute' mentality, the corollary of which is that others will NEVER (no matter how much money you throw at them) build something with the same philosophy as you will. I, quite literally, got burned on this.
    Jonathan Weiswasser
    MkIV Roadster in progress
    http://factory5roadster.wordpress.com/

  2. #2
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    Really sorry about your fire that really stinks. Was it insured ? Get another one on order and do it again. I appreciate all the tips I am getting ready to start on an mk4 build in the next couple weeks.

  3. #3
    ...master of none. CapeCoralCobra's Avatar
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    Again, sorry for your loss. I looked at your website and the car looked great. However, it sounds like your head's in the right place and ready to move forward. Good luck!
    Alan, Mk 3.1 #7172, 308, GT40P heads, Crane roller rockers, TFS Stage 1 cam, Explorer intake, 65mm TB, Pro M 75mm MAF, March pulleys, Cobra spec T5, 3.73 8.8, Konis all around, 15" FFR Halibrands, Viper Red/Pure White Stripes.
    "There's nothing you can't do, only stuff you haven't done yet!" Randy Jones

  4. #4
    Husband/father/son mrmustang's Avatar
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    Read your post last night, spoke with Bill K at breakfast this morning who saw you out and about and tried getting down your street after the fire dept closed it. heartbreaking to say the lease....Luckily nobody got hurt......The car can be replaced, hang in their and if you need anything, let us know.

    Bill S. and the rest of the Tri State Cobra breakfast club........


    Quote Originally Posted by Jonweisw View Post
    fire pic.jpg

    Having completed my MkIV Roadster after one year of building in November, 2011, I had retrieved it three weeks ago from a spectacular job that Ron Randall did at Metalmorphous and was looking forward to a nice season of driving with it. Unfortunately, that came to a very abrupt end yesterday. Fortunately nobody was hurt.

    I had been driving it on and off for about an hour and had picked up a friend to go for a ride while I went and got some gas (it had about 1/8-1/4 tank). On the way, I accelerated from a stop to about 30Mph and on the way, at about 2500 RPM in first gear, it hesitated and would not respond to the accelerator pedal. It then sputtered a little as if it was going to stall. It languished along like this for about a block, and then stalled altogether. I pulled over, and there was a strong smell of gas. I assumed that I had somehow flooded the engine (which was in retrospect impossible because it is fuel injected) or that there had been some major failure of the computer or one of the nozzles that would have allowed it to flood. I waited 10 or 15 seconds and then started it up again and it put it in gear. While it was somewhat more responsive, it wasn't behaving properly and began sputtering again. I then began to think that maybe it was out of gas (as if the gauge wasn't calibrated properly at the low end) so I decided to head for home. As I pulled into a turn, it stalled again. As I tried to start it, smoke began to form under the hood followed quickly by a flame. My passenger and I immediately exited the car and stood and watched it burn while we called 911 and waited for the fire trucks. The car is completely totaled. While the fire did not spread to the remainder of the car past the firewall, the water damage and the smoke damage was enough to ruin the interior.

    Hours later, after collecting my thoughts and speaking to friends about it, I began to suspect that this could only have been caused by a failed fuel line. As I had fabricated most of the fuel lines, I was distraught over the possibility that a manufacturing error on my part had led to this. I went to the yard where the car is and looked at every fuel line. All of the lines that I fabricated were completely intact. Some had soot on them, but they were all tight, secure, and without any outside evidence of damage. The one line that I did NOT fabricate, the line that connects the fuel rails in my Mass-Flo fuel injection system, was completely obliterated. Looking at the char pattern of the engine compartment, it seems clear that the epicenter of the fire was in the region of the distributor, where this fuel line existed. Worse, while both fittings were still tightly attached to the fuel rails, one side contained remnants of the braided steel line within the fitting whereas the other side did not. I interpret this as a a failure of the line at the connection between the braided steel hose and the fitting - something that was fabricated by my engine builder (I live in NJ and due to emission laws, I had to hire somebody to build me an engine based on a pre-1973 block - in my case a 1969 Boss 302).

    See my blog at http://factory5roadster.wordpress.co...shed-for-good/ for pictures of this.


    My overall reaction to this is that the fun in this project is in the build process and the achievement of finishing it. Once it's done, it's just a car - a thing like everything else. While I am very disappointed (and a little angry at the engine builder) I am not depressed or upset. I have nothing but VERY POSITIVE things to say about Factory Five, the fine quality of the kit, the personnel, and the end product. If I decide to build another one, I wouldn't dream of doing it any other way (I cant imagine I wont be on the phone with them tomorrow).

    That said, there are two important lessons I would like to pass on. First, don't carry a fire extinguisher with the hope of trying to put out this kind of fire. I didn't have one and I'm glad I didn't. Had I, I might have been tempted to open the hood and use it, exposing my face to an undoubtedly large fireball and inherent injuries. Second, and most important, TRUST NO ONE. I have now built an airplane and a car. In both cases, there were components or subsections that I farmed out- instrument panel, car engine, paint, etc - all things that I did not have the expertise to do myself. In all of those cases, I was always struck by how there was a lack of attention to certain details and an occasional carelessness that was a far cry from the meticulousness with which I approach my building and workmanship, and a standard of acceptability which was a far cry from the standards that I set fr myself. I'm not talking about little picky details here; I'm talking more about major, obvious deficiencies. I have seen this time, and time again, and it bolsters my belief that building can be done very safely, so long as you know your limitations and are honest with yourself. However, I am also a believer in the 'pack your own parachute' mentality, the corollary of which is that others will NEVER (no matter how much money you throw at them) build something with the same philosophy as you will. I, quite literally, got burned on this.
    Instead of being part of the problem, be part of a successful solution.
    HOW TO BUY A USED COBRA

  5. #5
    cobra Handler skullandbones's Avatar
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    Jonathan,

    I wish this hadn't happened to you after so much hard work on the roadster. You were in the moment and didn't panic (did something stupid like raising the hood!). I have been a little nervous about the idea of EFI just for this reason. But after your experience, I am definitely going to design and install an under the hood extinguisher system. I don't think it is a good idea to suggest not having an extinguisher on board. But if you have one, know how to use it. So along with race driving experience (that many have suggested), additional safety training or at least fire safety strategies for the car would be a good idea. I had planned a cockpit extinguisher and one in the trunk. But in your case, neither may have helped. I believe an extinguisher with a couple of strategically placed nozzles would have doused the fire. It would be triggered by an under the dash handle. I'm not second guessing you. I'm just carrying my plan a little further based on your scenario. Some others have probably already done it (esp. racers). Again, sorry for your loss and good luck in the future. WEK.
    FFR MkIII 302 (ATK), EFI 75mm TB with custom box plenum chamber, 24# injectors, 4 tube BBK ceramic, cold air sys, alum flywheel, crane roller rockers, T5, Wilwood pedals, custom five link with Watt's link, 4 rotors, coil overs, power steering with Heidt valve, alum FFR rad, driver's crash bar mod, mini dead pedal mod, quick release steering wheel hub #6046

  6. #6
    Mark Dougherty's Avatar
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    very sorry to hear.
    I am very glad to hear you are ok.
    later
    Mark D

  7. #7
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    Glad no one was hurt!! Keep your chin up!! Sorry for your loss!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Crawleyscobra's Avatar
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    I am so sorry that this happened to you and glad no one was hurt. I must say how much I am impressed with your positive attitude. If this were to happen to me in the future I can only hope that I will maintain my composure as you have. Good luck.
    FFR6682 - received 7/30/08 - MK 3.1 complete kit, Forte built Ford Racing BOSS 427W(475HP/500lbs), TKO600, Power steering, Power Brakes, Hydraulic Clutch, VPM Front/Rear sway bars, Bump steer kit, SAI mod, 13"Front/11.65"Rear Mustang Cobra rotors w/calipers, NITTO NT05s - 255/40R17-Front, 315/35R17-rear,3.55 IRS.
    Visit my Blog: http://crawleyscobra.wordpress.com

  9. #9
    MKIII #5835 Someday I Suppose's Avatar
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    Jon,

    Wow oh wow, can't believe it. As others and yourself have already said, glad to hear know one was hurt, I can't imagine how scary a moment it was and how depressing.

    You are of course correct, its a car, not a life and it can be replaced if you decide to do so. If you decide you want a help pulling it apart to see what can be saved, etc. just let me know when and where.

    All the best

    _Scott
    MKIII #3835 IRS, Anderson Performance 408 Levy T-5 Trans, Team III Wheels
    Paint completed November 2010, passed NJ State Safety Inspection June 21st, Tagged and First Drive 7/1/2011

  10. #10
    Senior Member CHOTIS BILL's Avatar
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    That really sucks.

    From my experience in racing I have found as soon as you suspect something is wrong with a car stop as soon as possible and check it out. I have cost myself many thousands of dollars by not stopping and never regretted stopping even though it turned out I could have made it back to the pits.

    Bill Lomenick
    Chotis Bill

  11. #11
    Senior Member 289FIA_Cobra's Avatar
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    wow, that just SUCKS. Sorry it went up in a blaze of glory but when I was reading your post, I do not 100% agree with the fire extinguisher part. I do understand what you meant and it would be a scary proposition - I have one... but would I REALLY expose my body to opening up the hood and be greeted by possibly the last thing I'll see? Actually, I did once, but it was an electrical fire under the hood of my 65' Mustang but I was young and dumb I suppose.

    But what one CAN do is learn from this and for those building their cars right now, consider a fully plumbed fire suppression system with nozzles near by the fuel sources and the cockpit (one on each side). ... then just pull the pin and slam on the activation button/lever and just get out of the car and hope it does the job. You now got me thinking even though my car has been finished for the last 4 years... scary no matter how you look at it.
    https://hhong43.wixsite.com/snkvnnm-build
    FFR #4883: 347CID|CompCam Magnum 286HR|Vic. Jr. heads|Hurricane Intake | Mighty Demon 650DP|IRS w/Torsen T2 & 3.55 | MSD ignition system | Mallory pump/filter/reg.|Forgestar CF5 18" w/245-45R18 & 295-35R18|Original I-Squared 1+1 System ☺ ☺☺

  12. #12
    Senior Member riptide motorsport's Avatar
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    bummer!!!!! Well......let start anew!!!!!!
    FFR Daytona Type 65 Coupe
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  13. #13
    Senior Member jakester888's Avatar
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    Sorry for your loss but thank you for lessons learned. Will try to incorporate. I think I'll ask my bro's at upstate cobra club to give mine a thorough inspection when I get to that point.

  14. #14
    cobra Handler skullandbones's Avatar
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    Johathan,

    Here is a product I found after a little search (see below). I think it is even better than an under dash release system. It has a trigger that goes off at 286 degrees and douses the engine bay in Halon. That's not a bad investment ($125) considering the hours spent plus the cost of everything. I'm ordering one for sure. The other fire extinguisher will still remain in the cockpit. I had an engine fire that I was able to stop with a hand held extinguisher. Every case is different so you have to evaluate it at the moment it's happening. But safety people will tell you that you should walk away from a fire if it looks too dangerous. There is a fine line between fight and flight. I hope you decide to rebuild and employee a fire surpression system. Thanks for your openness and sharing a very scary experience! WEK.

    http://www.firefight1.com/products.html
    FFR MkIII 302 (ATK), EFI 75mm TB with custom box plenum chamber, 24# injectors, 4 tube BBK ceramic, cold air sys, alum flywheel, crane roller rockers, T5, Wilwood pedals, custom five link with Watt's link, 4 rotors, coil overs, power steering with Heidt valve, alum FFR rad, driver's crash bar mod, mini dead pedal mod, quick release steering wheel hub #6046

  15. #15
    Senior Member Mesa Mike's Avatar
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    Sorry about the fire. Glad you are OK and willing to build another FFR. Good luck with your next build.

  16. #16
    Husband/father/son mrmustang's Avatar
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    Jon,

    Just remember, I get dibs on the old rolling chassis .

    As for fire suppression systems, Halon will not work well on an open cockpit car such as the Cobra, stick with a foam based (IE: AFF) system if you plan to install it in your new MK IV.......I can hook you up with a northern, NJ jobber if you are interested.

    Bill S.
    Instead of being part of the problem, be part of a successful solution.
    HOW TO BUY A USED COBRA

  17. #17
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    WOW,.. I am VERY sorry to her about what happened to your Cobra. I am glad you have such a positive attitude about it.
    Thank you for your first lesson. I recently installed a fire extinguisher and as I was reading your post I was thinking, "well at least now I have an extinguisher". That is until I read your first lesson.

    Secondly I would like to reiterate your second lesson. TRUST NO ONE. I had hired a guy to help me build my kit. I didn't know anything about the build process. He took over and pretty much built the car with me observing learning and doing menial work. The first time I took the car out, after his ok to do so, it stopped dead from about 40 mph on the road almost causing the car behind me to slam into me. He had forgotten to put fluid in the differential.
    Worst is he refused to take any responsibility for it. I found out later, having learned from that lesson and double checking things myself, that he had never installed the engine mounts when he installed the engine.

    I went to another mechanic later on, a great guy, whom I liked and trusted. But even he, made some basic mistakes of not adjusting the timing properly. When I went to him when the engine ran roughly he swore it could not be due to the timing since he took special care with it.
    Of course it was the timing.

    So please remember this lesson.... trust no one. Not even yourself,

  18. #18
    Gas Fume Philosopher AJ Roadster NJ's Avatar
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    I would like to think that if that happened to me I would have the presence of mind to shoot my extinguisher into the hood scoop and/or louvers. Those options would not be open to me without an extinguisher of course. Driving a self-built automobile without an extinguisher at hand on a quick release is, IMHO, just plain reckless. It virtually guarantees that the car will be engulfed in flames and likely totaled while waiting for help with any fire you may have, whether or not that fire was controllable/suppressible when it started.

    JMHO. Please don't flame me [pun intended...]

    AJ

  19. #19
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    Funny story. When I was in high school I drove a 1972 Chevy pick up truck. It had a Carter AFB with a somewhat tempermental gross jet. Occasionally it would stick open and the float bowl would fill up so far that it would come out the vent. The vent is inside the aircleaner so usually it would just start loading up and running really crappy. On the truly rare occasion, it would overflow, leak out onto the intake manifold, and even down onto the exhaust and catch fire. I always kept a fire extinguisher in the truck.

    One day I happened to stop at a 7-eleven and the truck caught fire as I was parking right in front of the place. I knew exactly what it was because it had happened once or twice before. So, with smoke coming out from under the hood, I non-chalantly got out of the truck, threw the hood open, and put the fire out with the fire extinguisher. I closed the hood, threw the extinguisher in the cab and went into the 7. There was a cute girl that REALLY wanted to talk to me. Don't really remember exactly how it came up but she said at one point, "I've never seen anybody do what you just did". I guess it turned her on or something. Anyway, that was par for the course with that truck. It was rather unique in that my friends and I used the bed for target practice, so you know how those ricers put stickers on their cars that look like bullet holes now adays? Well we had the real thing...DECADES AGO!

    Ah, the stupidity of youth.

    But yes, I can also recommend having the fire extinguisher with you...it might even get you laid!!
    www.myraceshop.com

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  20. #20
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    I am SO sorry for your loss, but grateful that no one was hurt. I would like to reiterate what many others have said about your attitiude; truly inspiring! Best of luck as you determine your path going forward! I hope you are rewarded for your exceptional outlook! Best of luck, and truly happy about your and your passenger's safety!!

    Regards,

    Steve

  21. #21
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Already your attitude is in the right place. When i totaled my MkI FFR 5 yrs ago, my wife asked on the way home if I wanted to get another one. I thought about that for a few minutes cause,hey,there are a LOT of other neat hobby cars out there. So I was thinking 69 Z28,classic vette etc.After those two minutes, the thought popped into my head, that I had made, in two years 2 very close new friends and 6 other new friends. I had breakfast w/ a few of them every Sunday AM. If, I get another kind car those friends will eventually fade away and I don't want that. So the rest of the way home we talked about what color the new FFR would be. You can't beat this community!
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  22. #22
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    I second this approach to a fire. If it occurred at a car show, you could endanger other cars and spectators if no immediate action is taken. MCA now requires an extinguisher at all shows. I have three extinguishers. One in the cockpit, one in the trunk and one outside the car.
    So sorry for your loss. Glad you are going to rebuild. You might consider the donor car route using a running engine.
    Art
    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Roadster NJ View Post
    I would like to think that if that happened to me I would have the presence of mind to shoot my extinguisher into the hood scoop and/or louvers. Those options would not be open to me without an extinguisher of course. Driving a self-built automobile without an extinguisher at hand on a quick release is, IMHO, just plain reckless. It virtually guarantees that the car will be engulfed in flames and likely totaled while waiting for help with any fire you may have, whether or not that fire was controllable/suppressible when it started.

    JMHO. Please don't flame me [pun intended...]

    AJ

  23. #23
    Member Don Wright's Avatar
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    Sorry to read of your loss. I installed the cold fire suppression system in my car in the hopes of giving me an edge in putting out a fire. The button is on the console by my elbow but I'd have to remember to pull the pin if street driving. On track days I pull the pins and have it ready to go at all times.

    All the best, Don
    When people say I have ADD, I tell them they don't understand . . . Hey look, a chicken!
    ". . . only try to realize the truth, there is no spoon."
    http://www.TangentKits.com/ http://www.DonWrightStudio.com/ http://www.athinkingman.com/

  24. #24
    Junior Member XLR8's Avatar
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    Please see new post (when it get up past the moderators) regarding a group purchase of a fire supression system...It should be front and center pretty soon. - Michael

  25. #25
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    Very sorry to hear about the loss of your car but I hear in your writing a strength of charachter that will carry you through.
    I read your comment of "Trust no one" and there is a lot to that.
    When you build your own car or anything else your not looking at a clock or worrying about a boss giving you crap because you didn't
    accomplish what he thought should be done.
    YOU do it right, you double and tripple check everything because it's YOURS.
    My best to you.

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