Beginner Questions

[tks]

I'm a 23 y/o engineer (studied applied math and computer science) that's interested in building a FFR 818. I don't have any auto body experience, but I tend to figure things out and learn quickly.

My goals:
* I'd like to make this a street car that I drive a few miles to work every day and occasionally on the track (maybe 1500 miles a year).
* Gain experience working with cars
* Have fun learning how to build a car
* Have something fast/nice to show for it without spending more than $20-$25K.

Questions for you guys:

* Would you recommend buying a donor WRX or buying parts as I start building the car? How long does it take to strip a WRX?

* For those of you who have built cars from scratch, how did you get started on your first car? Did you do it by yourself?

* How long do you think it'll take to build one of these? Ideally, I'd want to be done after 500 hours of work not including paint work that's why the GTM's out of the picture.

* How big is your garage? What tools do you have besides the normal toolbox w/ wrenches, jacks, and an engine hoist?

* What advice to you have for a relatively smart beginner on building a car? I'd really like to build up my mechanical knowledge since I'm interested in robotics.

[2006 WRB 818]

Awesome! Welcome to the forum. This is definitely the build that will meet your 4 goals. For question:

#1, I recommend picking up a full donor car, preferably hit in the rear (like the one I bought about 2 weeks ago). The problem with the ones that are hit in the front in they may have a broken timing belt from the fans hitting the front cover and you may have bent valves, not something I assume you would like to try and tackle.
Part 2 of question #1 I just finished stripping my donor today. I probably spent about 50 hours doing it, making sure I paid attention to everything, being careful with all parts, taking many, many pictures. Also, every single connector on my harness has been tagged, as well as every other connector or module it plugs into, nose to tail. Once Factory Five releases more info about the harnesses, I will be streamlining my harness and removing all the circuits that won't be needed.
#2 doesn't apply to me.
#3 I am hoping to have the car done in 6 months tops, but that is just my goal and I'm not willing to sacrifice build quality to achieve it.
#4 My garage unfortunately is just a 10'x25', so I will most likely store the body off-site until I'm ready for it. As far as tools, it would take too long to list, but I basically have everything I will need except for a pneumatic rivet gun.
#5 As far as advice, I would say buy a donor and strip it down. If you're confident you could turn back around and put it all back together again perfectly, you should be ready to build this car. If not, someone will be willing to buy all your parts or your donor if you end up not making it all the way through.

[tks]

Thanks for your response.

#1, I recommend picking up a full donor car, preferably hit in the rear (like the one I bought about 2 weeks ago). The problem with the ones that are hit in the front in they may have a broken timing belt from the fans hitting the front cover and you may have bent valves, not something I assume you would like to try and tackle.
Part 2 of question #1 I just finished stripping my donor today. I probably spent about 50 hours doing it, making sure I paid attention to everything, being careful with all parts, taking many, many pictures. Also, every single connector on my harness has been tagged, as well as every other connector or module it plugs into, nose to tail. Once Factory Five releases more info about the harnesses, I will be streamlining my harness and removing all the circuits that won't be needed.

#5 As far as advice, I would say buy a donor and strip it down. If you're confident you could turn back around and put it all back together again perfectly, you should be ready to build this car. If not, someone will be willing to buy all your parts or your donor if you end up not making it all the way through.

Did you buy your donor locally? Or did you buy it and have it shipped? With my inexperience, maybe I can get this stripped down in 2 months.

#3 I am hoping to have the car done in 6 months tops, but that is just my goal and I'm not willing to sacrifice build quality to achieve it.

Are you planning on working on it every day? just on the weekends? I'd like to be done in a year (~10/week....mostly on the weekends).

#4 My garage unfortunately is just a 10'x25', so I will most likely store the body off-site until I'm ready for it. As far as tools, it would take too long to list, but I basically have everything I will need except for a pneumatic rivet gun.

I'm most likely going to be moving soon and I expect that my new place would have a one car garage so I'll probably have to strip the car completely down and sell/junk the parts that won't be used for the 818 before getting the kit. I'd put the kit in the garage and put the donor parts around it while I assemble it.


More questions:
* Anyone in the Washington area (state not DC) planning on building one of these soon?
* Would you recommend build school even if it's not for the 818?

[riptide motorsport]

200 hours will see the car finished. buy donor and strip it, it'll be part of the 200 total hours.
Single car garage.
You can do it, where you get stuck we'll see you threw it.

Go for it...................HTH, Steven

[austinsnake]

tks,

Definitely start with a donor and strip it yourself...as a way to acquire the parts you need, but as importantly, learn how it all comes apart. You will gain lots of valuable knowledge and confidence in the process, and somehow it's quite satisfying to strip a production car down to the last nut and bolt :-)

I was fortunate to have lots of opportunites to learn the ins an outs of how to fix various parts of lots of different cars and trucks growing up, and a lot of that just comes from experience, but having stated that, I agree with the others above that lack of such experience shouldn't stop you! Any engineer with a sheepskin and desire can figure it out with the help of many folks and resources here on the forum.

Unless you have a true deadline to get it all done, I would also suggest not worrying too much about meeting a set schedule, as that will only serve to cause you undue stress, when you should be enjoying the process, and ending up with a cool car that you built with your own hands! Of course I'm a bad example, having started on my Roadster many years ago, but will get it done eventually, and it's more of a hobby/journey/something to enjoy for me. Of course, once finished I'm sure I will wish I had done so sooner, but I can always start another one to satisfy that on-going itch :-)

Good luck and don't be bashful in asking for help. The guys (and girls!) on this forum, and at FFR are 2nd to none in helping others get things done...and you can likely even scare up a local FFR enthusiast to help you and drink your beer on weekends.

Needed tools, etc are all covered in the manual, and you will never have enough anyway, so just start with the basics, and when you have grey hair you will have all of what you need, and most of what you want :-)


Brian

[NicksPapaw]

If you are a bright guy, this should be a fun project. I spent 2 years building my roadster just playing on Saturdays and nights when time allowed. Don't sweat the tool thing. If you have the basic set of tools you will get by and I am sure you will add to your collection as time goes on. I have a 3 car garage, but the boat is in one bay, the grandkids toys are in another bay and I built my car in the third bay. For this car, I would get a donor. I believe you will learn a lot in the tear down process. And finally, although you are going to increase your knowledge and gain valuable experience, try to take enough time to enjoy the build process itself. Although I absolutely LOVE driving my roadster, I have the itch to build again. It is fun and contagious.

[2006 WRB 818]

I bought my donor from new york, and had it shipped to atlanta. My work schedule is I work 4 days and 4 days off, 12 hour shifts plus 2 hours of roundtrip commute. So the days I'm working, I just work and sleep. But if I take 4 days off, I end up with 12 days off because of the 4 days off on each end of my work week. So I'm planning on doing that a few times to make some good progress. Actually what I did when I got my donor so I knew I would have enough time to finish it.

[RM1SepEx]

My donor came apart in about 18 hours, I did have a couple friends help so total man hrs to disassemble was about 45 hours. Everything is marked/labled

I'm an engineer as well but have much more experience than you due to age. Factory 5's goal is a 100 hr build for this car so a 200 hour allowance should do it.

When you need another tool, just buy it or borrow it! :-) You will end up well stocked in tools over time... This project will link you with fellow car hobbiest's that have other tools that you need (I have friends with plasma cutters, rotisserie, cmc milling equip, TIG, lathe, etc... ) I'm up to 3 roll away boxes a mig, torches, arc welder, band saw, hydraulic press, metal working hand tools, throatless shear, bending brake and slip rolls, spring compressor, 4 post lift etc, various grinders, a blast cabinet, pnumatic rivet tool, big drill press, bench grinders, polisher, ultrasonic cleaner...

My garage is 40 w x 28 d with 2 garage doors. I have 2 portable 12 x 20's as well and a 8.5 x 16 enclosed trailer that doubles as another garage... plenty of room to work!

Like you my goal is a fair weather street driver, and autocross beast, I'll be trailering sometimes with my karts to run time trials etc...

[wallace18]

If space and the ability to get rid of the donor parts you don't need is a problem, I would look into AJW donor program. I could be cheaper in the long run. If I had not bought a donor early I would went the 818 donor route with AJW. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Mechie3]

I took my donor apart in roughly 19 hours including removing all parts, cleaning up, labeling and bagging hardware, cutting off the roof to sell, cutting of the rear quarter panels to sell, and cutting the car up into pieces I could carry and load onto a trailer.

Tools include sockets, multiple wrench sets, screw drivers, breaker bar, sawzall, jack, impact wrench (electric), and engine hoist.

[pondo]

I'll be with you! I'm a 29 y/o chemical engineer looking for a project. I have good mechanical ability but never built a car or taken one apart that's for sure. The Boss says I need to finish renovating the house before I can move onto another project which involves trashing the two car garage...

From the looks of all the information I've gathered so far, the 818 looks like a much easier project than the GTM.

[tks]

Based on the replies I've gotten here, I'm probably going to start looking for a donor car.

My biggest concern is finding a garage to work in since I don't own a place (& live across the country from "home"). Anyone have experience working in an apartment garage or renting a garage?

[RM1SepEx]

if you can get space on the ground at your apartment a "portable garage" from tractor supply has plenty of space... 12 x 20 with about 10 x 20 of usable space due to the angle of the side walls... I had a miata and 4 motorcycles, 2 extra Miata transmissions and an extra engine in one last winter

[HelluvaEngineer]

I'll be with you! I'm a 29 y/o chemical engineer looking for a project. I have good mechanical ability but never built a car or taken one apart that's for sure. The Boss says I need to finish renovating the house before I can move onto another project which involves trashing the two car garage...

From the looks of all the information I've gathered so far, the 818 looks like a much easier project than the GTM.

Me too, 48 year old Electrical Engineer with good Mechanical skills. I have a 2005 Legacy GT and I need to do some research on how much of it can be a donor car. But I will wait until FFR comes out with a Targa and good windows. Probably best when it comes time to sale the Legacy and get a crashed WRX. But I like the idea of knowing the condition of all the parts before getting into it.

[tks]

if you can get space on the ground at your apartment a "portable garage" from tractor supply has plenty of space... 12 x 20 with about 10 x 20 of usable space due to the angle of the side walls... I had a miata and 4 motorcycles, 2 extra Miata transmissions and an extra engine in one last winter

Finding open space like that is pretty hard in my city. I think my best bet might be renting a garage somewhere for $200/month.

[RM1SepEx]

Wow the advantages of living in a rural area... my lot is the MINIMUM size for my area of Freeport, 2.5 Acres... my driveway is almost 300 feet long, imagine how many 12 foor wide "garages" would fit!

I almost moved to WA in 2001, had a Boeing job offer to do advanced composites, chose to stay in Maine and work in Semiconductors.

[BrandonDrums]

Everyone above has already answered your questions.

I have a question for you though, do you live near a harbor freight location?

If so, you have NOTHING to worry about tools, you can buy a nice, warrantied ratchet/socket and wrench set there for well less than 100 bucks, Wal-mart stanley stuff is good too on a budget.

Then, you can either buy whatever tools you need at Harbor Freight for waaay less than anywhere else or go to Advance Auto Parts and rent what you need.

[tks]

Everyone above has already answered your questions.

I have a question for you though, do you live near a harbor freight location?

If so, you have NOTHING to worry about tools, you can buy a nice, warrantied ratchet/socket and wrench set there for well less than 100 bucks, Wal-mart stanley stuff is good too on a budget.

Then, you can either buy whatever tools you need at Harbor Freight for waaay less than anywhere else or go to Advance Auto Parts and rent what you need.

Yeah I do. just looked it up right now.

[LiquidPT]

tks, where abouts in WA are you?

[tks]

tks, where abouts in WA are you?

not too far from you. currently on the eastside, but I might move to Seattle.

[LS1RX7owen]

Finding open space like that is pretty hard in my city. I think my best bet might be renting a garage somewhere for $200/month.

yikes, for $200 a month you might want to see if anyone local to you has a space outdoors that you can use, since the project will be stationary until its complete they wont need to clear access to it, etc. I'd bet you can find a car guy or gearhead who has some driveway space or storage space you can get for nothing or for a one time fee of $200.

I'd hate to see you drop a grand on the storage if the project takes you a long time.

Answers
* buy a donor WRX but it seems like you might want to wait until your 818 arrives at your doorstep so you dont have to pay to store the donor.
* I built an LS1 FC RX7 and it took a few months in a driveway, working on it here and there. I took my time, no rush and there are always setbacks. I think the 818 will be a fast build though, its very creative in using so many stock oem parts from the donor car.
* Like people said, 200 hours or less. I'd like to think much less if you can make getting it on the road asap a priority instead of making adjustements and personalizing it at each and every chance.
* I have a 2 car garage but might build this on the back patio to keep it separate (its so damn small, almost toy-car-sized). Tools from different engine builds over the years wont even be needed, this is a basic car teardown and swap in, so simple but it will be new to you, dont be worried, its easy stuff. breaker bars are such big help, so is a clean floor space!
* This is a great project for a beginner, but take your time too, every piece you break trying to remove the wrong way will be a time setback and everything you overtorque will be a headache to drill out, etc. but these are lessons we all learn on projects like this.