Help me decide: Buy my donor to use now, or wait? which one is best?

[ScoobySnack818]

Hey Everybody!

I used to own a 2000 Impreza 2.5 RS and was close to doing a JDM turbo conversion from a full front clip but i moved on to other vehicles. 12 years later, college, a "real job", married, and a little one later, my wife and I have two aging SUV's... a 2003 toyota 4runner which is running like a champ and a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee which i'd like to sell for something else.

Here's my dilema: do I try and sell the Jeep for somewhere around $7-8k and turn that cash into a 2002-2004 WRX with around 100k miles? To then be driven with my little guy in the back in a recaro child seat (he gets the racing seat before me.. ha) to and from work and daycare. I would probably need to make it last for 2-3 years before I could purchase the 818 kit and begin to turn the rex into a donor. Needless to say it would need to be something only lightly modified and somewhat reliable.
Pros: I get to drive a fun subie for a few years and "get to know" my donor inside and out
Cons: I'm having real trouble finding a "gem" for under $9-10k with less than ~115k miles. Also it is contingent on selling the Jeep for decent money.

The other scenario would be just wait and drive the jeep into the ground and do a donor pallate or find a donor when i can afford the kit all together.

Part 2: (sorry)
This search has made me realize that a good donor for the price may be hard to find, or I am just not looking in the right places. But more importantly that I'm fearing which model/year/modifications to stay away from. I've scoured these forums and read some great info from Subie experts like PhyrraM, BrandonDrums etc. If i had my way i'd get a 2006 since it had quite a few mechanical upgrades- and because I want to drive it for a few years but again, i can't find one for the price ranges listed above. I also like the wagons and see that bug eye variants have become somewhat of a rare and therefore higher value item.

What Should I Do?

Thanks,

Justin

[timmy318]

I'd check out AWJ Performance, there, you can get a basic kit from them for around $5K I think meeting the $15K completion cost that FFR has set. Their website is called http://818donors.com/..... My dad and I are getting one of their kits(stage 1 or 2). That way you won't have to spend $9-10K on a donor and the parts have already been cleaned, checked, replaced if needed too and it's pretty much plug and play into your FFR 818 kit. Personally I'd wait until you can afford the kit and anything else you might want. But still, 818donors in my opinion is the way to go.

[Mechie3]

I'm of the opinion you shouldn't do anything financial (that you don't have to) without being able to absorb the cost and a little extra. If you have $15k for an 818, I wouldn't do it. If you had $16k, or $17k, sure. Something small will bite you. You don't want that small bite becoming an infected sore on a credit card that hangs around for months or years.

The donor pallet is the easy method, but costlier. Might be easier to get what you want as you have another company doing part time work searching just for donors. They might have more time to spend on it than you, but you pay them for their services.

It also seems you can't find the donor you want. It may become tempting to bite at the first halfway decent donor, which in turn may bite you back. I suggest you simply wait. Make the 818 a goal, and put away some money for it. Even if you don't act now physically, you can act now financially. Have a plan in place to sell the jeep if necessary if the right donor comes along. Being patient is key. Keep in mind, any donor you buy may (or may not) need work. I bought a very high mileage 02 WRX for a winter car. It was only $3350, but so far it's needed brakes, an 02 sensor, different suspension (came with blown dampers). I sold off parts to cover all but $25 worth so far (minus 02 sensor) and I had all the replacement parts I needed in the basement for teh dampers and exhaust. If I didn't, my $3350 car might have ended up costing me $4k+. If your DD turned donor needs work, it might eat into money that wouldn't have been needed if you went straight to an 818.

[PhyrraM]

I, personally, am not a fan of tearing down a perfectly good car for a kit. If it's wrecked, or damaged, or rusted..well that's fine. If you do happen to have a "clean" WRX, well you can almost certainly sell it and buy a damaged car and pocket the difference. IMHO, of course.

I would not hinge your daily drivers on the 818. If you need to replace one, or both, of the SUVs - then do so on on thier own merits. Even if you get a WRX now, it sounds like you'll be looking for a new daily driver when you build the 818 anyways?

I would settle your current car needs now and then keep you eyes out for a cheap, damaged WRX - OR start collecting parts piecemeal when bargans pop up on Nasioc, eBay and Craigslist. You said you have 2-3 years to find your deal/s.

[NonProfit]

I, personally, am not a fan of tearing down a perfectly good car for a kit. If it's wrecked, or damaged, or rusted..well that's fine.

Yes, yes, yes!

As Subies are like Legos, it is certain parts from some vehicles outside of the approved donors will be usable, however before the kit is released we're all just guessing just what they will be. Although there will likely not be another single donor, I'm certain folks will share ideas on how to gather all the needed parts while keeping costs down. Also, even if you ultimately decide to use a WRX, they, like nearly every other vehicle, are constantly depreciating. The same car will cost less in two or three years than it does now. For now, I'm buying my time.

[Xusia]

I more or less agree with Mechie3 and PhyrraM: If you need to replace the Jeep, then do so, but I wouldn't try to fold that into the kit. Putting aside the issue of using a functioning car for the kit, trading the Jeep for a WRX is a risk - one you don't need to take right now. You may not like the Jeep, but you know it. On the other hand, you have no idea what you are getting with a used car. You could end up worse off. As Mechie3 said, keep your eyes open for REALLY good deal on a donor. Time is on your side, so USE IT!

Looking at it from another perspective, in 2-3 years FFR is likely to make MANY improvements to the 818 kit. For all we know, they might accommodate the 6 speed making an STi a single donor. Or maybe they will accommodate the H6. Whatever they do, it could change your mind about the donor you think you want.

Lastly, even if you still want an 06 WRX donor, it will be worth less in 2-3 years than it is today. So will your Jeep, but that's kinda my point - there really isn't much downside or risk to keeping your Jeep for now and waiting. But, there is far more risk if you act now...

[ScoobySnack818]

Good responses... this forum is the only place that actually "gets" my situation.

Yes i should probably just sit tight and wait till all the ducks are in a row. I guess I got excited and thought if a great DD subie came along for under 8 grand i could swap my jeep for it. The jeep is fine, it kinda sucks on gas, but i've kept it on the road and it will be a good DD for the next 2-3 years easy.

The comment about FFR making updates and possibly making the STi a complete donor would be cool. I did do a lot of searching on NASIOC, cars.com, ebay, craigslist, subiesales finder, auction sites, salvage, etc. And there were quite a few 06 STi's out there as well.

I am well aware of the 818donors route and I am very interested, i just also have a hankering to drive a fun sporty subaru again, and figured it would be a way to set the plan in motion while finding a diamond in the rough of a used, loved, wrx.

and you know what will happen once the SEMA pictures come out.. all of my restraint will be tested!

-Justin

[bromikl]

Sounds like you'll need a daily driver even while building your 818. So that's a separate issue, altogether.

I do want to point out, since you're keen on the STi, that a Forester XT is an STi under the skin (PhyrraM, correct me if I'm mistaken here) - and it will cost about $15,000 less than an STi. I've seen Forester XT's for around 10K.


http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/3262998121.html

[Mechie3]

^^ Yes and No. They are a 2.5L turbo, but do not have the STI turbo or the 6 speed. It's essentially the same as the 06 WRX (not sure about steel vs aluminum control arms though).

[Oppenheimer]

I think you are getting a lot of good advice here. I'll add mine. Sell the Jeep (you know you want to), buy something more fun to drive for the next few years, Subie or otherwise. Start an 818 fund, and keep your eyes out for just the right donor to come along. But its going to be a couple of years, so you got plenty of time to find it, and you don't want to have to store the thing for years. So instead, concentrate on saving, and learning, so you will be ready when the time is right to strike.

[PhyrraM]

The Forester XT is basically a '02-'05 (2.0) WRX with a 2.5 liter motor. It has all the "upgrades" a 2.5 liter motor gets (AVCS, fly-by-wire throttle). It also has a 4.44 ring and pinion, which (IMHO) is going to make 1st gear all but useless in a car as light as the 818.

It should make a great donor for those who are already commited to going past a "stock" 818 build.

[Xusia]

Are you saying that first gear will be so low that it will be over very quickly when accelerating quickly?

[PhyrraM]

Are you saying that first gear will be so low that it will be over very quickly when accelerating quickly?

Yes, I find that very likely.

[Rasmus]

Are you saying that first gear will be so low that it will be over very quickly when accelerating quickly?

I would think the 4.44 final is so low that even with sticky, wide tires you'll never get it to hook up. You'll just spin to the rev limit then have to short shift to second.

In a different vein it would be nice to have the 4.44 final with a tall 1st gear then short-ish spaced 2nd-5th gears.

[ScoobySnack818]

Sell the Jeep (you know you want to), buy something more fun to drive for the next few years, Subie or otherwise.

You said it! I am currently preparing to list the Jeep and then try to obtain a late model Mini Cooper S (hopefully 04 or 05 with under 100k miles). Yet another cult-following car with tons of information out there about its issues/fixes + aftermarket mods. I've always liked em, but they're pricey new. I know a couple of the members here are Mini/Subaru enthusiasts, so i guess I can fit into that category now.

I feel like a car enthusiast addict who's been suppressing his habits by driving a boring SUV and is about to fall off the wagon....

[Mechie3]

Read this before buying a used mini. It lists the major faults of each model year.

http://www.motoringfile.com/mini-r50r53-buyers-guide/

[ScoobySnack818]

Yep, thats exactly what made me look at 04 and newer... then I found my way over to http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...k-2002-2006-8/ message board and got lost in all the info

[flynntuna]

Are you saying that first gear will be so low that it will be over very quickly when accelerating quickly?

This reminds me of my '70 Porsche 911t I once owned. The 5sp had 1st and reverse were on a spring lock out to the left, and 2nd-5th in the regular H pattern. This made the 1st to 2nd shift slow, (1st was mainly a gear to get on and off the track) on the street one had to be careful since reverse was straight back from 1st. The 818 probably won't be a star at the drag strip, but on a road course; look out!

[RM1SepEx]

Your kids and family come first
an 818 isn't a daily driver when you have a small child.
It needs to be an extra car...

In your situation, I would wait until you have 15-20K available...

I have 2 kids, son, 20 in college 3rd year at RIT the other daughter, 16 wants to be a doctor, been saving to help with college costs for almost 20 years...

[Mechie3]

I went to RIT! Graduated in 06.

[pddjsteve]

I went to RIT! Graduated in 06.

Me too! Probably going to be making a "Masters degree or 818" decision in the next year or two...

[Mechie3]

Not to get too off topic, but it's kind of related....

I got my bachelors and masters at the same time. It certainly paid off in the difference in starting pay. My current company actually requires a masters for any level above Mech Engr II with some exceptions for 10-15 yrs experience.

A Masters will pay for itself, and your 818 eventually and pay off more in the long run.

[PhyrraM]

Not to get too off topic, but it's kind of related....

I got my bachelors and masters at the same time. It certainly paid off in the difference in starting pay. My current company actually requires a masters for any level above Mech Engr II with some exceptions for 10-15 yrs experience.

A Masters will pay for itself, and your 818 eventually and pay off more in the long run.

Not to get further off topic, but that doesn't work for all professions. For example, a teacher looking for a job with a master is pretty much screwed. They only want to pay for the bachelors level. The trick for teachers is to get tenured and then get your masters, then they have to pay you more.

[NonProfit]

The value of education is highly based on the profession you're in. My wife is a doctor and regardless of the knowledge she possesses it would be illegal for her to practice without a degree. I'm a web developer and no one cares where I went to school, they want to see a list of sites I've built.

[Mechie3]

Not to get further off topic, but that doesn't work for all professions.

'Tis true, but I'm banking on the fact that if he went to RIT he was either engineering, science, or maybe business. All of which benefit from Masters. I don't know if the art/photog majors give masters.

[NonProfit]

I don't know if the art/photog majors give masters.

That's a MFA.

[Mechie3]

I meant I didn't know if RIT specifically gave masters programs without looking it up.

[NonProfit]

Ahhhh, sorry for misunderstanding.

[RM1SepEx]

My son @RIT is 3rd year going for BS BioMedEng degree... My wife and I are both BSME from U Maine @ Orono He's looking for CoOps now...

[csullivan]

Not to get further off topic, but that doesn't work for all professions. For example, a teacher looking for a job with a master is pretty much screwed. They only want to pay for the bachelors level. The trick for teachers is to get tenured and then get your masters, then they have to pay you more.

My wife teaches 5th grade, a masters is required of all teachers in her school district. You have 5 years to obtain it once you begin teaching.

Just saying. MS is becoming the new BS.