Coupe on order!!

[Jacob McCrea]

I'm also sorry to hear about your dad passing; I too bought my Coupe, in part, to spend more time with my dad. Regarding the door bars and other frame mods, you may have read that we have a "Spec Coupe Build Manual" in the works. It assembles in one place the vast majority of the information you need for the frame mods. Unfortunately I have been beyond busy with work for almost six months and haven't had the time to put the finishing touches on it, or do much of anything else with the project. Nevertheless, feel free to get in touch with me via PM and I will help out however I can.

[Owlknight360]

So I built body bucks last weekend. Misson successful, body is off the ground and mobile.

Starting too look into Side impact bars. Just had a thought, once the SIBs are installed, is it possible to use a roll down window, or do the bars eat up all of the space?

[Jacob McCrea]

If I recall the Competition Coupe photos and JC's coupe correctly, the top side impact bar intrudes into the very bottom of the door. I've never seen the mounting setup for a roll-up window but I have to assume with enough creativity you could make it work with the top side impact bar intruding into the bottom of the door, as seen on the Competition Coupes. I would guess that the roll-up windows mount to the door frames. You might not be able to roll the window down all the way, but again, that is just speculation.

I kept my side impact bars entirely inside the plane of the door in order to minimize fiberglass work and, in my mind at least, give myself the best chances of making the cabin waterproof (as unrealistic as that may be). Doing that may, or may not, make the roll-up windows easier to accomplish - I don't know. It absolutely will make ingress and egree more diffcult, and interior space will be a little more cramped.

[jkrueger]

You can build any way you want, but the way we did it on my coupe ( I copied Karen's car) is the top bar is just below the bottom bar of the door frame.

JC

[tcoon]

The side bars intrude into the bottom of the door approx 2". On my passenger side I had to reposition the lower door frame bar about 1 1/2" to clear this Impact tube. I am not aware of anyone using roll up windows in the coupe, it comes with lexan fixed side panels and sliding windows. The interior door frame bars would require a lot of modification to accept roll up windows...

[smithtlw]

You definitely would not be able to retract windows into the doors with the "standard" door bars. It is possible if you use Jacob's style bars (or none) with a bunch of work:

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/21-ffr-...r-windows.html
http://s520.photobucket.com/user/DAV...indow.mp4.html

Every once in a while we hear of a kit or service that is going to be provided by a couple forum vendors to install power windows but I think it is a significant undertaking and is a tough product/service to offer to the general population. Also, don't be fooled - just because the window goes up and down don't assume it is going to seal like a production car.

-Todd

[Owlknight360]

Body Bucked!100_3033.JPG100_3034.JPG100_3035.JPG100_3036.JPG

I'd like to thank DARKPT for posting build instructions for his bucks, it they were very helpful!

[DARKPT]

Lookin' good! Those bucks served me as well for both primer/surfacing and painting.

[Owlknight360]

Just ordered a tube bender for the SIBs. Think I'm going to cry....

[Owlknight360]

3.JPG
10.jpg

See photobucket link for more photos on motor removal and body buck.

TIG Welder, check
Tube bender, check

Now to tubing and welding supplies!

[STLMARSHALL]

That top pic reminds me of an engine removal I have seen before!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIMn2WydX0s

[John Dol]

Mike,

I can be proud to report those top mechanics are from my home country!
It did not say whether they were going to use it in a coupe though.

Owl,

Looks like you had a nice donor to start with. Keep the pics coming.


John

[Owlknight360]

Mike, that video was hilarious!

So the National Hot Rod show was in town this weekend. Many cool vendors, including some paint boths were there. One paint both had some candy coatings you could layer on top of other colors. So I think I have a color to think on (the last pic, the red one, it is a combination of the grey and candy red).
all.jpgSilver.jpgRed.jpg

[Owlknight360]

Question on Side Impact Bars: why do we use .120 wall DOM tubing, why not a thinner walled chromoly tube?

[jkrueger]

Question on Side Impact Bars: why do we use .120 wall DOM tubing, why not a thinner walled chromoly tube?

On mine I just followed the rule book for NASA which specifies .120 DOM. It might talk about the use of chromoly but I don't remember.

JC

[Jacob McCrea]

I seem to recall either the NASA or the SCCA rule book prohibiting the mixing and matching of "regular" DOM tubing and chromoly tubing in the roll cage. I am completely tied up with work right now but will check as soon as I get a chance.

[Hankl]

NASA Rule book states,

15.6.18 Roll Cage Tubing Sizes

For the purposes of determining roll bar tubing sizes, vehicle weight is as raced, but without fuel and driver. Note: There is an allowance of minus 0.010 inches on all tubing thicknesses. Minimum tubing size for the roll cage is:

Up to 1500 lbs
1.375” x 0.095” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
1.500” x 0.080” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM


1501 - 2500 lbs
1.500” x 0.095” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
1.500” x 0.120” ERW* (No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages) *Note- Specifications listed only for reference for inspection of grandfathered vehicles.

2501 - 3000 lbs (typical weight for a Coupe)
1.500” x 0.120” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
1.750” x 0.095” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
1.750” x 0.120” ERW* (No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages) *Note- Specifications listed only for reference for inspection of grandfathered vehicles.

3001 - 4000 lbs
1.750” x .120” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM No ERW allowed.

Over 4000 lbs
2.000” x 0.120” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM No ERW allowed.

15.6.19 Bending Allowances
If the maximum number of bends permitted for any one bar is exceeded, all required components shall be made from the tubing size listed for the next heavier category and must be approved by a NASA race tech shop or scrutineer.

The decision is made for you in the rule book, it doesn't matter what type of tubing you use, the wall thickness is consistent based on the weight of the car.
Cost is also a factor for many, as the cost of 4130 is approximately double than for a like DOM.

Hank

[Owlknight360]

Well looks like the rule book makes that a simple decision. Thanks!

[Owlknight360]

Survey Time! I'm trying to nail down some hard HP and Torque numbers to make sure I order the right parts.

For those of you who are racing (autocross, road course) your coupes, how much power are you making (please specify motor, ie ford type or LS)?
And, are you happy with the power you are currently making?

[jkrueger]

Survey Time! I'm trying to nail down some hard HP and Torque numbers to make sure I order the right parts.

For those of you who are racing (autocross, road course) your coupes, how much power are you making (please specify motor, ie ford type or LS)?
And, are you happy with the power you are currently making?

360 RWHP, 340 torque. Chevy "LS" 5.3L truck motor. The car could handle another 50 or so HP and still not be too squirley to drive.

JC

[Owlknight360]

I have a SIB question. Looking at pictures I normally see 3 vertical bars that attach the lower horizontal bar to the chasis.
SIB 3.PNG

However I just noticed what looks like a 4 vertical bar towards the rear of the chasis. Appears like some 2"x2" tubing was added to use this location.
SIB 4.PNG
SIB 4 detail.PNG

I'd appreciate any info on this mysterious 4th vertical support.

[jkrueger]

Hank can probably elaborate better on this but the last two pictures, I think, are of his car. He has done a bunch of additional frame mods to his. That additional 2x2 bar and that fourth vertical bar would be something additional you would have to add. I didn't do that on mine and I'm pretty sure Karen's car doesn't have it either.

JC

[Hankl]

I have a SIB question.

However I just noticed what looks like a 4 vertical bar towards the rear of the chasis. Appears like some 2"x2" tubing was added to use this location.

I made additional mods way back when, and the 4th vertical was something I included because I could, not necessary with a normal SIB installation.

Hank

[Owlknight360]

Gotcha, thanks Hank!

[Owlknight360]

So working on seat installation. Moving the floor downward for more headroom. while I'm in there, I'm looking at the seat to steering wheel to pedals, centering. It looks like the seat will sit closer to the center of the car with the steering wheel and pedals more towards the outside (ie, pedal to steering wheel to seat are not all centered with eachother). Is this something you guys have noticed? I figure now is the time to mock this up and change it!!

Also, I think I need to start a new thread since my coupe is no longer "on order"! Build 593 perhaps.

[smithtlw]

So working on seat installation. Moving the floor downward for more headroom. while I'm in there, I'm looking at the seat to steering wheel to pedals, centering. It looks like the seat will sit closer to the center of the car with the steering wheel and pedals more towards the outside (ie, pedal to steering wheel to seat are not all centered with eachother). Is this something you guys have noticed? I figure now is the time to mock this up and change it!!

Without major modifications, I believe most of these cars and the roadsters you end up sitting with your body slightly pointed to the outside of the car. There is a thread on the other forum discussing this very subject:

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/21-ffr-...alignment.html

Todd

[smithtlw]

Just ordered a tube bender for the SIBs. Think I'm going to cry....

What brand of bender did you buy and from where? I am in the market for one...

Todd

[skullandbones]

The driver comfort in a roadster or coupe (very similar) is really more critical than you would think. I spent more time tweeking the seat, harnesses, pedals and foot box modifications than any other part of the build. So When I'm in there, it feels like it was made for me because it was!!! If you try to make the seat fit straight, you will not be able to maximize your comfort so don't fight the shape of the cockpit and foot box. There could be problems with your back if you are pushing the clutch in over and over again with a slightly twisted lower back. I mounted my seats with a plywood plate on the runners so I could run 4 screws thru the bottom of the seat for custom placement. I tried every conceivable position that way and came up with what felt the best and gave me the most room from chest to steering wheel. Then I thru bolted the plates to secure the seat position. I think every driver's position would be slightly different. Good luck,

WEK.

[STLMARSHALL]

Survey Time! I'm trying to nail down some hard HP and Torque numbers to make sure I order the right parts.

For those of you who are racing (autocross, road course) your coupes, how much power are you making (please specify motor, ie ford type or LS)?
And, are you happy with the power you are currently making?

Steven you have experienced 350 RWHP in my coupe so that should be a good reference point. Remember when we headed for the ditch after a 2nd gear roll on! That was on Kumho XS's. I now run NT01's and can put the hammer down in any gear and it just hooks.

[Owlknight360]

I got it from Pro Tools off of their website. I hate to say it, but I've yet to use it. I realized I should get the seat in the car first, so working on that.

[Owlknight360]

Anyone purchase the Steering Inner Tie Rods from FFR? I grabbed a steering rack out of an '01 Mustang. I cut the inner tie rods down per instructions and still had horrible toe out. I realized I was supposed to use a much earlier model year steering rack (says right there in the manual). I then found FFR sells inner tie rods to adapt the latter model racks. So I purchased and received them yesterday.

What I'm not sure about, is they are the exact same length as the inner tie rods I cut down off of the '01 (AFTER cutting). My assumption is they are stock replacements for the correct model year I was supposed to use and I need to cut these down (per the manual had I gotten the correct model year). I was just hoping to hear confirmation prior to cutting my newly purchased parts.

They also came with some small roll pins. I don't understand the function of these pins. I see three holes in the threaded member that attaches to the rack where these pins could go....but I don't see how they would do anything.

[Owlknight360]

So again, this is explained in the manual. But my problem was I purchased an 01 steering rack. The manual walks you through the 87-93 rack install. So the 01 rack works, I just needed inner and outer tie rods from the 87-93. I then had to cut down the new 87-93 inner tie rod per instructions. I'm now in business!